Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

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Borhas
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby Borhas » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:28 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:Of course grades are most important. The assumption that one's GPA will proportionally increase or decrease, whether one goes to a lower or higher ranked school seems pretty ridiculous though.


and yet it's taken for granted that better law students go to better schools

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johnnyutah
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:38 pm

irishman86 wrote:If you have a high GPA from a shitty school, you will never have a career because you can't get a legal job in the first place.

You aren't guaranteed a legal job from t-14s anymore, either.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:40 pm

lisjjen wrote:But I'm trying to get into a school with a name that'll get me laid at cocktail parties.

You're out of luck. No one will fuck you based on where you go to law school, and no one other than employers will even give a shit.

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Borhas
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby Borhas » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:47 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
irishman86 wrote:If you have a high GPA from a shitty school, you will never have a career because you can't get a legal job in the first place.

You aren't guaranteed a legal job from t-14s anymore, either.


no one will ever get hired any where, at any time... ever, except for top 1% at Yale, and the job is in-house fry cook at food service industry

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johnnyutah
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:11 pm

Borhas wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
irishman86 wrote:If you have a high GPA from a shitty school, you will never have a career because you can't get a legal job in the first place.

You aren't guaranteed a legal job from t-14s anymore, either.

no one will ever get hired any where, at any time... ever, except for top 1% at Yale, and the job is in-house fry cook at food service industry

You saying that all t-14 students will be able to get a legal job?

rundoxierun
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby rundoxierun » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:14 pm

johnnyutah wrote:You saying that all t-14 students will be able to get a legal job?

legal job?? Maybe not ALL but it has never been ALL. The vast majority will definitely get a legal job. Dont let TLS get you down.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:17 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:You saying that all t-14 students will be able to get a legal job?

legal job?? Maybe not ALL but it has never been ALL. The vast majority will definitely get a legal job. Dont let TLS get you down.

Yeah, the great majority will be able to find one. My point is just that it's not guaranteed. You have to really work to find jobs if you don't get something through OCI, even when you're above median, and there's always the chance that you won't be able to find anything at all.

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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby rundoxierun » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:24 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:You saying that all t-14 students will be able to get a legal job?

legal job?? Maybe not ALL but it has never been ALL. The vast majority will definitely get a legal job. Dont let TLS get you down.

Yeah, the great majority will be able to find one. My point is just that it's not guaranteed. You have to really work to find jobs if you don't get something through OCI, even when you're above median, and there's always the chance that you won't be able to find anything at all.


Well yeah.. if you call "A lot of work" the normal work that people outside of law school do to find a job. 0L alert, but it seems that people really overrate the difficulty of this law school thing on TLS.

I also dont understand this TLS idea of schools guaranteeing things. No school ever guarantees/guaranteed anything. Not in this economy, not before this economy.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:30 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:You saying that all t-14 students will be able to get a legal job?

legal job?? Maybe not ALL but it has never been ALL. The vast majority will definitely get a legal job. Dont let TLS get you down.

Yeah, the great majority will be able to find one. My point is just that it's not guaranteed. You have to really work to find jobs if you don't get something through OCI, even when you're above median, and there's always the chance that you won't be able to find anything at all.


Well yeah.. if you call "A lot of work" the normal work that people outside of law school do to find a job. 0L alert, but it seems that people really overrate the difficulty of this law school thing on TLS.

I also dont understand this TLS idea of schools guaranteeing things. No school ever guarantees/guaranteed anything. Not in this economy, not before this economy.

1) I didn't say that any school ever offered any kind of guarantee to its students. When I used to the word "guaranteed," I only meant to communicate that, unlike what irishman86 seemed to imply, there was a real chance of not finding a legal job even as a t-14 graduate.

2) I also never said that law school was super hard. It's not (unless you're set on trying to get straight As). Finding a job, though, can be, especially in this economy.

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lisjjen
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby lisjjen » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:41 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
lisjjen wrote:But I'm trying to get into a school with a name that'll get me laid at cocktail parties.

You're out of luck. No one will fuck you based on where you go to law school, and no one other than employers will even give a shit.


It's Christmas and there's still no humor to be found on TLS. I couldn't have possibly been serious about that. For one thing I don't think people have done cocktail parties since about 1959.

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Ragged
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby Ragged » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:44 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
lisjjen wrote:But I'm trying to get into a school with a name that'll get me laid at cocktail parties.

You're out of luck. No one will fuck you based on where you go to law school, and no one other than employers will even give a shit.


Well if the employers do give a shit and people will definitely fuck you based on where you work/how much money you have then you're wrong.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:49 pm

lisjjen wrote:For one thing I don't think people have done cocktail parties since about 1959.

Really? I thought a cocktail party was just a party where people drink mixed drinks.

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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:04 pm

takehold wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
SBL wrote:If I were a hiring partner, I'd take the #1 student at Hastings over a median student at Stanford every single time.


Unfortunately, this is not what actual biglaw hiring partners do.


I think that was SBL's point.


ok, just went back and realized I completely missed the 2nd paragraph in his post. total RC fail, lol.

takehold wrote:And in regards to the above inquiry, I can't imagine that one's LSAT score would follow him or her all over. The LSAT is for law school admissions and likely shouldn't be looked at for anything else.


They aren't, but indirectly your LSAT score does follow you around. By the law firm hiring practice of only recruiting at top law schools, I think they are implicitly saying that they think an LSAT score is a better predictor of performace as a lawyer than grades, etc (i.e. a lot of firms will pick someone below the median at Stanford before they will even think about the guy who is #1 at hastings, and the only big difference between the 2 people is the LSAT). And, for most people, your first job out of law school defines opportunities that are or are not open to you later in your career (e.g. if you don't make it into biglaw out of law school it is incredibly unlikely you will be able to "lateral" to biglaw later in your career, or be able to go in-house at a major corporation, etc, etc).

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lisjjen
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby lisjjen » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:29 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
lisjjen wrote:For one thing I don't think people have done cocktail parties since about 1959.

Really? I thought a cocktail party was just a party where people drink mixed drinks.


I can see you have the charm of your avatar: a soggy Keanu Reeves. Cocktail parties require dressing up and having coordinated and classy mixed drinks dispensed from a bar arrangement. What you're describing would be ever spring break and sorority party from Arizona to Maine.


XxSpyKEx wrote:
They aren't, but indirectly your LSAT score does follow you around. By the law firm hiring practice of only recruiting at top law schools, I think they are implicitly saying that they think an LSAT score is a better predictor of performace as a lawyer than grades, etc (i.e. a lot of firms will pick someone below the median at Stanford before they will even think about the guy who is #1 at hastings, and the only big difference between the 2 people is the LSAT). And, for most people, your first job out of law school defines opportunities that are or are not open to you later in your career (e.g. if you don't make it into biglaw out of law school it is incredibly unlikely you will be able to "lateral" to biglaw later in your career, or be able to go in-house at a major corporation, etc, etc).



Where is this firm choosing between #1 Hastings and below median Stanford? If it's in New York, Hastings is toast. If it's in San Francisco, I don't think Stanford stands a chance. If it's in L.A. things probably start to even out. It's the concept that 20% of people in Cardozza go to biglaw. Even though they're there, you never see them. They do slave work in the back until they burn out and change their careers.

Though I can agree that moving laterally into biglaw is a nonoption. There's one way into Biglaw, and many many ways out. Excepting some kind of Andrew Carnegie story where you shoot up from the bottom, I highly doubt you can move in. Their aim is to wring as many hours from you as they can before they toss you aside like a dish rag. Only the toughest and smartest move up. (Those don't all go to Stanford though.)

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Adjudicator
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby Adjudicator » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:43 pm

The LSAT exists because of the inherent information asymmetry in the admissions process; schools don't know who the most capable prospective students are, so the LSAT was invented as a proxy for your overall ability. Legal employers have the same information asymmetry when hiring law students; new hires are an investment and they can only afford to hire the best, but they have little information about you other than your grades and where you went to school. So they use both of those factors to estimate your potential. Implicit is the assumption that law schools are selective and a higher school ranking correlates with higher quality students.

So, indirectly your LSAT does sort of follow you, if only because it probably determined where you went to school in the first place.

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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby Eco » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:45 pm

Just look at the big law firms OCI, and notice, if you're not in T-14 you don't get a lot of visits from them. That's the difference pretty much.

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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby johnnyutah » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:48 pm

lisjjen wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:Really? I thought a cocktail party was just a party where people drink mixed drinks.

I can see you have the charm of your avatar: a soggy Keanu Reeves. Cocktail parties require dressing up and having coordinated and classy mixed drinks dispensed from a bar arrangement. What you're describing would be ever spring break and sorority party from Arizona to Maine.

Ahh, so a spring break party, just for the kind of forgettable wannabe yuppies that refer to things as "classy"?

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lisjjen
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby lisjjen » Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:11 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
lisjjen wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:Really? I thought a cocktail party was just a party where people drink mixed drinks.

I can see you have the charm of your avatar: a soggy Keanu Reeves. Cocktail parties require dressing up and having coordinated and classy mixed drinks dispensed from a bar arrangement. What you're describing would be ever spring break and sorority party from Arizona to Maine.

Ahh, so a spring break party, just for the kind of forgettable wannabe yuppies that refer to things as "classy"?


Are we really doing this? On Christmas?

I'm trying to recall last time we had a "classy" cocktail party at our campus house. Hmmmm... I remember the student body president there. A Rhodes scholar finalist. A couple of pre-med students. I guess I forgot the wannabe yuppies, they are forgettable after all.

I can agree anyone who uses "classy" seriously is a cheese dick, but I was saying it ironically. Why do you care anyways? I tried to make a joke and you jumped down my throat. I'm obviously not making a lifetime decision to marry myself to six figures of debt so I can "get laid at cocktail parties." Jesus, this is the kind of shit that turns TLS into junior high.

InLikeFlint
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby InLikeFlint » Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:25 pm

lisjjen wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
lisjjen wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:Really? I thought a cocktail party was just a party where people drink mixed drinks.

I can see you have the charm of your avatar: a soggy Keanu Reeves. Cocktail parties require dressing up and having coordinated and classy mixed drinks dispensed from a bar arrangement. What you're describing would be ever spring break and sorority party from Arizona to Maine.

Ahh, so a spring break party, just for the kind of forgettable wannabe yuppies that refer to things as "classy"?


Are we really doing this? On Christmas?

I'm trying to recall last time we had a "classy" cocktail party at our campus house. Hmmmm... I remember the student body president there. A Rhodes scholar finalist. A couple of pre-med students. I guess I forgot the wannabe yuppies, they are forgettable after all.

I can agree anyone who uses "classy" seriously is a cheese dick, but I was saying it ironically. Why do you care anyways? I tried to make a joke and you jumped down my throat. I'm obviously not making a lifetime decision to marry myself to six figures of debt so I can "get laid at cocktail parties." Jesus, this is the kind of shit that turns TLS into junior high.


I hope you're referring to your own lame schtick.

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beachbum
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby beachbum » Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:32 pm

Hmm. Tough crowd.

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lisjjen
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby lisjjen » Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:53 pm

InLikeFlint wrote:
I hope you're referring to your own lame schtick.


Maybe. What were we talking about?

Also, this thread has veered way off. We started on a road trip to Indiana and now we're off roading towards Tijuana.
Last edited by lisjjen on Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ggocat
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby ggocat » Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:54 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
lisjjen wrote:But I'm trying to get into a school with a name that'll get me laid at cocktail parties.

You're out of luck. No one will fuck you based on where you go to law school, and no one other than employers will even give a shit.

Employers will still fuck you.

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lisjjen
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby lisjjen » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:00 pm

beachbum wrote:Hmm. Tough crowd.

Image

Couldn't help myself.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby megaTTTron » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:18 am

lisjjen wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
lisjjen wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:Really? I thought a cocktail party was just a party where people drink mixed drinks.

I can see you have the charm of your avatar: a soggy Keanu Reeves. Cocktail parties require dressing up and having coordinated and classy mixed drinks dispensed from a bar arrangement. What you're describing would be ever spring break and sorority party from Arizona to Maine.

Ahh, so a spring break party, just for the kind of forgettable wannabe yuppies that refer to things as "classy"?


Are we really doing this? On Christmas?

I'm trying to recall last time we had a "classy" cocktail party at our campus house. Hmmmm... I remember the student body president there. A Rhodes scholar finalist. A couple of pre-med students. I guess I forgot the wannabe yuppies, they are forgettable after all.

I can agree anyone who uses "classy" seriously is a cheese dick, but I was saying it ironically. Why do you care anyways? I tried to make a joke and you jumped down my throat. I'm obviously not making a lifetime decision to marry myself to six figures of debt so I can "get laid at cocktail parties." Jesus, this is the kind of shit that turns TLS into junior high.


Haha. I laughed out loud.

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Borhas
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Re: Study: Don't sweat your school's status.

Postby Borhas » Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:30 pm

johnnyutah wrote:
Borhas wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
irishman86 wrote:If you have a high GPA from a shitty school, you will never have a career because you can't get a legal job in the first place.

You aren't guaranteed a legal job from t-14s anymore, either.

no one will ever get hired any where, at any time... ever, except for top 1% at Yale, and the job is in-house fry cook at food service industry

You saying that all t-14 students will be able to get a legal job?

nope, I was just piling on in an attempt at humor

ggocat wrote:Employers will still fuck you.

loled




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