Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

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yanksbgood
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Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby yanksbgood » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:31 pm

I have seen a few people mention that only the top 25-30% at gulc are getting biglaw ITE. But how is this true?

Looking at the NLJ250 go to schools chart, it shows 42.8% getting biglaw. This is about the same percentage as cornell. Also, this doesnt include the 10-15% that do clerkships and another 10% or so that are probably looking for public interest work/not interested in biglaw.

Considering that many GULC students aim for DC, GULC could probably have an even better biglaw percentage if more of its students went to NYC, as opposed to trying for DC, which is obviously very tough ITE.

So why all the gulc hate? They are just 8 percentage points behind michigan and penn and have a vastly larger class.

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

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IAFG
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby IAFG » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:38 pm

The grads in this chart applied for SAs in 2007. We are talking about who is getting SAs for next summer, c/o 2012, and 2011's results, both of which were probably worse.

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camelcrema
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby camelcrema » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:55 pm

FWIW, I've got a friend at G'town right now who mentioned approximately the top 1/3 is getting BigLaw around now.

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20160810
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby 20160810 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:26 pm

42% before the economy melted down means it's probably climbing back from 25-30% to 35-40% now.

lawyerwannabe
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby lawyerwannabe » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:33 pm

I completely agree.

I think by the time people attending law school in 2011 graduate, the numbers from the link OP provided will be pretty accurate.

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nealric
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby nealric » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:48 pm

The hate is really rather odd.

GULC's biglaw prospects are similar to other lower T14 schools. They've all declined ITE.

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20160810
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby 20160810 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:49 pm

lawyerwannabe wrote:I completely agree.

I think by the time people attending law school in 2011 graduate, the numbers from the link OP provided will be pretty accurate.

Bear in mind, my optimism comes from the fact that (1.) anecdotally this year seems a LITTLE better and (2.) I somehow managed to get a job. But who knows what will happen with teh economy

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BruceWayne
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:56 pm

nealric wrote:The hate is really rather odd.

GULC's biglaw prospects are similar to other lower T14 schools. They've all declined ITE.


It's not odd when you take into account that TLS treats US News as the defacto source for career placement. TLS, for the most part, uses US News numerical rank and autoadmit hearsay to determine job prospects.

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dood
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby dood » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:02 pm

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Last edited by dood on Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20160810
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby 20160810 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:10 pm

dood wrote:yo, just wanna point out nlj250 =\= big law. not that it really matters bc everything ITE is ancedotal, but i believe people generally consider big law to be vault 100.

thou i often lol at how an industry so preoccupied with "prestige" bases its rankings on VAULT.com

False. There are tons of firms in the NLJ250 that pay market (or "market" for their cities) and are big. No way is biglaw just the V100.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby Blindmelon » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:19 pm

SBL wrote:
dood wrote:yo, just wanna point out nlj250 =\= big law. not that it really matters bc everything ITE is ancedotal, but i believe people generally consider big law to be vault 100.

thou i often lol at how an industry so preoccupied with "prestige" bases its rankings on VAULT.com

False. There are tons of firms in the NLJ250 that pay market (or "market" for their cities) and are big. No way is biglaw just the V100.


Just in Boston theres Choate Hall, Foley Hoag and a bunch of others. They're not on vault because they're small, but I would take take them over a hell of a lot of V100s.

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dood
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby dood » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:20 pm

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Last edited by dood on Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rundoxierun
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:23 pm

Yeah, no need to even cite internet numbers. Everything in this law school thing is circular. A current student sees something on the internet and takes it to be true. He then tells non-students what he read as if he knows it as a fact. Finally, a student comes on here and says what he heard. Once this is done, people google some stats that confirm what the person who told them said. No surprise that what they google lines up with what they heard since what they heard came from approximations using the exact same data.

I noticed this phenomenon a while back while talking to current students. Very, very rarely is what they say based on actual data. Law school students, for the most part, dont believe in data.

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dood
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby dood » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:26 pm

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Last edited by dood on Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:27 pm

tkgrrett wrote:Yeah, no need to even cite internet numbers. Everything in this law school thing is circular. A current student sees something on the internet and takes it to be true. He then tells non-students what he read as if he knows it as a fact. Finally, a student comes on here and says what he heard. Once this is done, people google some stats that confirm what the person who told them said. No surprise that what they google lines up with what they heard since what they heard came from approximations using the exact same data.

I noticed this phenomenon a while back while talking to current students. Very, very rarely is what they say based on actual data. Law school students, for the most part, dont believe in data.


POTY(post of the year)

MrAnon
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby MrAnon » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:31 pm

Anything over one-third of the class is an exaggeration.

1. Biglaw hiring numbers increased every year from 2002 until the 2008 crash.

2. The numbers you see here are peak numbers; they reflect the 2008 summer class, the largest summer class ever on record.

3. If and when hiring picks up again, it will not not revert to these numbers. It will revert to the 2002 numbers, which are significantly below this.

4. Further, the 42% figure shown here includes deferred associates. Many so-called deferred associates were called by their firms and told never to show up. In other words, the 42% number shown here is wholly inaccurate.

5. Throw in main stream press like this --LinkRemoved-- and it sounds like a bad situation over there.

yanksbgood
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby yanksbgood » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:40 pm

MrAnon wrote:2. The numbers you see here are peak numbers; they reflect the 2008 summer class, the largest summer class ever on record.


These arent even close to peak numbers. In peak numbers columbia had 80% of their students going to nlj250 firms. On this list its only 55%.

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IAFG
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby IAFG » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:44 pm

yanksbgood wrote:
MrAnon wrote:2. The numbers you see here are peak numbers; they reflect the 2008 summer class, the largest summer class ever on record.


These arent even close to peak numbers. In peak numbers columbia had 80% of their students going to nlj250 firms. On this list its only 55%.

I am guessing no-offers explain a lot of the discrepancy. This reflects who got a job, not how many people had SAs.

rundoxierun
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:48 pm

MrAnon wrote:5. Throw in main stream press like this --LinkRemoved-- and it sounds like a bad situation over there.


This is my favorite thing.. While it is likely true that things are rough at Gtown, citing an article that tries to show the bad things in the legal market by featuring 5 of the 650 students in a class is not at all a way to prove a point.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:50 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
MrAnon wrote:5. Throw in main stream press like this --LinkRemoved-- and it sounds like a bad situation over there.


This is my favorite thing.. While it is likely true that things are rough at Gtown, citing an article that tries to show the bad things in the legal market by featuring 5 of the 650 students in a class is not at all a way to prove a point.


Stop man; you're going to make TLS explode.

dabbadon8
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby dabbadon8 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:50 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
MrAnon wrote:5. Throw in main stream press like this --LinkRemoved-- and it sounds like a bad situation over there.


This is my favorite thing.. While it is likely true that things are rough at Gtown, citing an article that tries to show the bad things in the legal market by featuring 5 of the 650 students in a class is not at all a way to prove a point.


Especially when one got biglaw and another federal gov work.

MrAnon
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby MrAnon » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:59 pm

yanksbgood wrote:
MrAnon wrote:2. The numbers you see here are peak numbers; they reflect the 2008 summer class, the largest summer class ever on record.


These arent even close to peak numbers. In peak numbers columbia had 80% of their students going to nlj250 firms. On this list its only 55%.


Thanks but those are peak numbers. The missing percentage that is not reflected got clerkships. Then they went on to biglaw.

Please find the chart that says Columbia was sending 80% to biglaw. You won't find it.

MrAnon
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby MrAnon » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:01 pm

IAFG wrote:
yanksbgood wrote:
MrAnon wrote:2. The numbers you see here are peak numbers; they reflect the 2008 summer class, the largest summer class ever on record.


These arent even close to peak numbers. In peak numbers columbia had 80% of their students going to nlj250 firms. On this list its only 55%.

I am guessing no-offers explain a lot of the discrepancy. This reflects who got a job, not how many people had SAs.


Read the document. The document says that deferrals are not reflected. If deferrals are not reflected then no offers after deferrals are certainly not reflected.

MrAnon
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby MrAnon » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:03 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
MrAnon wrote:5. Throw in main stream press like this --LinkRemoved-- and it sounds like a bad situation over there.


This is my favorite thing.. While it is likely true that things are rough at Gtown, citing an article that tries to show the bad things in the legal market by featuring 5 of the 650 students in a class is not at all a way to prove a point.


I did not use the article for my main point. It was a thrown in. At the same time however I only find articles like this about Georgetown, Duke, and the lower of the T14. I watch a lot of news and radio and I havent seen or heard of a roundtable of Columbia grads who are hard up for work.

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IAFG
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Re: Bleak Biglaw prospects from GULC? I dont think so.

Postby IAFG » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:04 pm

MrAnon wrote:
IAFG wrote:
yanksbgood wrote:
MrAnon wrote:2. The numbers you see here are peak numbers; they reflect the 2008 summer class, the largest summer class ever on record.


These arent even close to peak numbers. In peak numbers columbia had 80% of their students going to nlj250 firms. On this list its only 55%.

I am guessing no-offers explain a lot of the discrepancy. This reflects who got a job, not how many people had SAs.


Read the document. The document says that deferrals are not reflected. If deferrals are not reflected then no offers after deferrals are certainly not reflected.

lol what's ur point




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