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Poll ended at Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:56 pm

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profizzle
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:09 pm

RVP11 wrote:
profizzle wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:If you're like the majority of Americans, then sticker at MVP may be your only chance of ever making six figures. A 50 percent chance (and really it's probably higher if you're flexible about location) is a lot better than the typical American's 3 or 4 percent chance at making six figures. Non legal jobs aren't exactly thriving either--contrary to TLS lore.

Then again a lot of people on TLS aren't typical Americans, so they do have connections and undergrad degrees from schools that may provide an easier path to a good salary than law school.



How is MVP >50% BigLaw - even if ur completely flexible about where you live and bid heavy on NYC? If NLJ250 has 50-53% MVP placement from 2009/OCI 07- isnt it closer to 40% nao?


Those NLJ placement rankings are for first-year associates - many people are doing clerkships their first year out.

The more important statistic is the percentage of 2Ls summering at big firms. That number used to be ~80% at some schools, and is probably still somewhere around 50% at most T14s.


LOL, is it? DCNG medians are not doing well for SAs ITE, and idk about MVPB- prolly depends where you bid/how strong u interview..

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RVP11
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby RVP11 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:06 pm

profizzle wrote:LOL, is it? DCNG medians are not doing well for SAs ITE, and idk about MVPB- prolly depends where you bid/how strong u interview..


Dude, you're a 0L. You should be LOLing at the fact that you're telling 2Ls - who attend a school you'd give your left nut to attend - how well they and their 2L friends are doing at OCI.

I'd estimate that somewhere between 40% and 60% of my classmates have something lined up with a big firm next summer. (That includes people in the top third who struck out and people in the bottom third who snagged V100 offers.) I can't give a more accurate estimate than that and anyone who purports to be able to do so without having gotten a number from career services is just bullshitting.

profizzle
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:49 pm

RVP11 wrote:
profizzle wrote:LOL, is it? DCNG medians are not doing well for SAs ITE, and idk about MVPB- prolly depends where you bid/how strong u interview..


Dude, you're a 0L. You should be LOLing at the fact that you're telling 2Ls - who attend a school you'd give your left nut to attend - how well they and their 2L friends are doing at OCI.

I'd estimate that somewhere between 40% and 60% of my classmates have something lined up with a big firm next summer. (That includes people in the top third who struck out and people in the bottom third who snagged V100 offers.) I can't give a more accurate estimate than that and anyone who purports to be able to do so without having gotten a number from career services is just bullshitting.


LOL. I've trolled XO for a while, bro. I know what's up re: ITE employment, mang.

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RVP11
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby RVP11 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:55 pm

profizzle wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
profizzle wrote:LOL, is it? DCNG medians are not doing well for SAs ITE, and idk about MVPB- prolly depends where you bid/how strong u interview..


Dude, you're a 0L. You should be LOLing at the fact that you're telling 2Ls - who attend a school you'd give your left nut to attend - how well they and their 2L friends are doing at OCI.

I'd estimate that somewhere between 40% and 60% of my classmates have something lined up with a big firm next summer. (That includes people in the top third who struck out and people in the bottom third who snagged V100 offers.) I can't give a more accurate estimate than that and anyone who purports to be able to do so without having gotten a number from career services is just bullshitting.


LOL. I've trolled XO for a while, bro. I know what's up re: ITE employment, mang.


QFP, brother.

profizzle
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:12 pm

RVP11 wrote:
profizzle wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
profizzle wrote:LOL, is it? DCNG medians are not doing well for SAs ITE, and idk about MVPB- prolly depends where you bid/how strong u interview..


Dude, you're a 0L. You should be LOLing at the fact that you're telling 2Ls - who attend a school you'd give your left nut to attend - how well they and their 2L friends are doing at OCI.

I'd estimate that somewhere between 40% and 60% of my classmates have something lined up with a big firm next summer. (That includes people in the top third who struck out and people in the bottom third who snagged V100 offers.) I can't give a more accurate estimate than that and anyone who purports to be able to do so without having gotten a number from career services is just bullshitting.


LOL. I've trolled XO for a while, bro. I know what's up re: ITE employment, mang.


QFP, brother.


Not sure what QFP is/means, mango

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IAFG
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby IAFG » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:15 pm

anyone who's been following employment would know better than to still use MVPB/DCNG mini-tiers.

anonymiB
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby anonymiB » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:29 pm

Plus you guys fail to take into account, those who come out of MVP and don't make 160k at biglaw...make 100k at kind of biglaw...so there is not real failure there. Those coming out of a TTT or even a TT can make 40k as a public defender. The T-14 still have a lot to offer...

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chaosnoodlesoup
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby chaosnoodlesoup » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:29 pm

IAFG wrote:anyone who's been following employment would know better than to still use MVPB/DCNG mini-tiers.


What would you suggest as an alternative? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know.

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mrmangs
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby mrmangs » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:31 pm

Tagged.

09042014
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby 09042014 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:35 pm

anonymiB wrote:Plus you guys fail to take into account, those who come out of MVP and don't make 160k at biglaw...make 100k at kind of biglaw...so there is not real failure there. Those coming out of a TTT or even a TT can make 40k as a public defender. The T-14 still have a lot to offer...


Not ITE.

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Cavalier
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby Cavalier » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:40 pm

anonymiB wrote:Plus you guys fail to take into account, those who come out of MVP and don't make 160k at biglaw...make 100k at kind of biglaw...so there is not real failure there. Those coming out of a TTT or even a TT can make 40k as a public defender. The T-14 still have a lot to offer...

Please, don't post here. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, which is not surprising given that you are a 0L (which I assume since most of your posts are in the LSAT forum). The students who do not make $160k (or the market rate in secondary cities) will almost certainly make $40k-$60k, if they find anything at all, even if they graduate from Harvard. There are basically no entry-level legal jobs that pay $100,000. If you don't get big law, you're screwed if you have graduate with a ton of debt.

Image

albanach
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby albanach » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:54 pm

Cavalier wrote:There are basically no entry-level legal jobs that pay $100,000. If you don't get big law, you're screwed if you have graduate with a ton of debt.


To be fair, your graph says about 10% got jobs paying between $85k and $135k compared to 16% at biglaw market rates.

$$$$$$
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby $$$$$$ » Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:55 pm

Cavalier wrote:
anonymiB wrote:Plus you guys fail to take into account, those who come out of MVP and don't make 160k at biglaw...make 100k at kind of biglaw...so there is not real failure there. Those coming out of a TTT or even a TT can make 40k as a public defender. The T-14 still have a lot to offer...

Please, don't post here. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, which is not surprising given that you are a 0L (which I assume since most of your posts are in the LSAT forum). The students who do not make $160k (or the market rate in secondary cities) will almost certainly make $40k-$60k, if they find anything at all, even if they graduate from Harvard. There are basically no entry-level legal jobs that pay $100,000. If you don't get big law, you're screwed if you have graduate with a ton of debt.

Image



This is just wrong on so many levels, there are a ton of nyc, conneticut, boston firms that pay between 110 - 145 grand. They do mid market securities and m&a and mid level corporate work. They do oci at only a small range of schools (usually local), but there are plenty of firms that would love to take an MVP kid with ok grades and a good personality. I know kids that had offers all over the place for nalp 250 firms paying out 120K, 130k, etc. These offers were also received before the start of oci or in the beginning, they got them because they hustled and were cool people. DO NOT RELY ON OCI, if you do, then what is said above is much more truthful.

09042014
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby 09042014 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:00 pm

$$$$$$ wrote:
Cavalier wrote:
anonymiB wrote:Plus you guys fail to take into account, those who come out of MVP and don't make 160k at biglaw...make 100k at kind of biglaw...so there is not real failure there. Those coming out of a TTT or even a TT can make 40k as a public defender. The T-14 still have a lot to offer...

Please, don't post here. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, which is not surprising given that you are a 0L (which I assume since most of your posts are in the LSAT forum). The students who do not make $160k (or the market rate in secondary cities) will almost certainly make $40k-$60k, if they find anything at all, even if they graduate from Harvard. There are basically no entry-level legal jobs that pay $100,000. If you don't get big law, you're screwed if you have graduate with a ton of debt.

Image



This is just wrong on so many levels, there are a ton of nyc, conneticut, boston firms that pay between 110 - 145 grand. They do mid market securities and m&a and mid level corporate work. They do oci at only a small range of schools (usually local), but there are plenty of firms that would love to take an MVP kid with ok grades and a good personality. I know kids that had offers all over the place for nalp 250 firms paying out 120K, 130k, etc. These offers were also received before the start of oci or in the beginning, they got them because they hustled and were cool people. DO NOT RELY ON OCI, if you do, then what is said above is much more truthful.


There are not a ton, and most people would count the above as being big law anyway.

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Cavalier
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby Cavalier » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:05 pm

So there may be some jobs that pay $100k, but to say that "those who come out of MVP and don't make 160k at biglaw...make 100k at kind of biglaw..." is simply false. Most who don't make $160k certainly don't make $100k. I'm sure a third of the class of 2011 at MVP would give anything for a job paying $100k upon graduation. If you are thinking of attending MVP at sticker, recognize that if you strike out at OCI, you probably won't have anything to fall back on.

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IAFG
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby IAFG » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:12 pm

Cavalier wrote:So there may be some jobs that pay $100k, but to say that "those who come out of MVP and don't make 160k at biglaw...make 100k at kind of biglaw..." is simply false. Most who don't make $160k certainly don't make $100k. I'm sure a third of the class of 2011 at MVP would give anything for a job paying $100k upon graduation. If you are thinking of attending MVP at sticker, recognize that if you strike out at OCI, you probably won't have anything to fall back on.

More likely than "falling back" on midlaw, the grads who get these jobs targeted midlaw/smaller markets from the beginning and could have gotten NYC biglaw

lawyerwannabe
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby lawyerwannabe » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:35 pm

I voted yes.

I think that the economy is gaining a little and median and above at any t-14 will give you at least an OK chance at landing BigLaw if you are going to be part of the class of 2014.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:00 pm

albanach wrote:
Cavalier wrote:There are basically no entry-level legal jobs that pay $100,000. If you don't get big law, you're screwed if you have graduate with a ton of debt.


To be fair, your graph says about 10% got jobs paying between $85k and $135k compared to 16% at biglaw market rates.


DOJ (and government position at places like the SEC, FDIC, Dept of Labor etc.) pays about 75K to start, with salaries reaching 100K about 2 years after that. Obviously these jobs are extremely competitive, but that's something to take into account.

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Cavalier
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby Cavalier » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:51 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
albanach wrote:
Cavalier wrote:There are basically no entry-level legal jobs that pay $100,000. If you don't get big law, you're screwed if you have graduate with a ton of debt.


To be fair, your graph says about 10% got jobs paying between $85k and $135k compared to 16% at biglaw market rates.


DOJ (and government position at places like the SEC, FDIC, Dept of Labor etc.) pays about 75K to start, with salaries reaching 100K about 2 years after that. Obviously these jobs are extremely competitive, but that's something to take into account.

Many (if not most) of these jobs will be filled by students who want to work for the government, and the remainder will be sought after by the third of the class that doesn't get big law. So I don't think there's much to take into account. Yes, it's certainly possible that you can do just fine after striking out at OCI. But it's far more likely that you'll be in an awful financial situation.

All I'm trying to do is emphasize that if you strike out at OCI, there's not much to fall back on, even if you attend a T10 school. I still think attending at sticker is a good decision for most people, but it's definitely a more risky decision that some are suggesting.

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Veyron
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby Veyron » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:58 pm

50% chance of Biglaw, 50% of debtpwnge for life. I'd say its worth sticker if you had a low UGPA but pwnd the LSAT. Also, Michigan is uniquely fucked, I think NU will probably replace them soon in the MVP tier.

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vamedic03
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby vamedic03 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:34 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
albanach wrote:
Cavalier wrote:There are basically no entry-level legal jobs that pay $100,000. If you don't get big law, you're screwed if you have graduate with a ton of debt.


To be fair, your graph says about 10% got jobs paying between $85k and $135k compared to 16% at biglaw market rates.


DOJ (and government position at places like the SEC, FDIC, Dept of Labor etc.) pays about 75K to start, with salaries reaching 100K about 2 years after that. Obviously these jobs are extremely competitive, but that's something to take into account.


Many/most of those positions go to people who could have had/did have V10 jobs/grades and chose not to go BigLaw.

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vamedic03
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby vamedic03 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:35 pm

albanach wrote:
Cavalier wrote:There are basically no entry-level legal jobs that pay $100,000. If you don't get big law, you're screwed if you have graduate with a ton of debt.


To be fair, your graph says about 10% got jobs paying between $85k and $135k compared to 16% at biglaw market rates.


To be fair, 135k is big law market in secondary markets and secondary markets are harder to get ITE than NYC.

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Ragged
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby Ragged » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:39 pm

I voted "no" just for lulz.

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IAFG
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby IAFG » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:41 pm

let's also note this graph is from 2007. lots of these entry level jobs don't exist anymore, probably disproportionately from the 100k-145k range, since markets paying in that range all but shut down entry-level recruiting.

rundoxierun
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:59 pm

WTF is it with law sites and line graphs?? They put them to use in the most useless settings ever. Is the legal profession just all about making data as ambiguous as possible? A bar graph with salary ranges on the x-axis wouldve been much more useful(I.e. what percentage makes 80-119k, 120k-144k, 145k+ or whatever).




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