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dresden doll
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby dresden doll » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:26 pm

profizzle wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
RVP11 wrote:If you have ties to a secondary, non-uber-competitive market where you wouldn't mind working, and you're also comfortable with working in NYC, then I think the gamble becomes one with much better odds.


This, although NYC isn't that forgiving once hordes of mediocre students realize its advantages and stack their bids accordingly.

Secondary markets are FTW though for those that want them and can articulate coherent reasons in re: why. Ties + good name school = can potentially get away with below median grades, at least from what I've seen.


Do Los Angeles and/or the Bay Area count as secondary markets above?? Assume strong ties (Cal/Stanford Ugrad + immediate family there). If so, would the appropriate bidding strategy (assuming you SOLELY want to maxamize probability of landing a biglaw jerb in any city) be to split bids like 60% NYC 40% CA? Tyia for your perspective, bro.


SF is very competitive and swarming with Berkeley/Stanford grads. The secondary markets I was referring to are places like Ohio or Arizona. I'd actually say SF is the second most brutal market (DC takes the cake, of course).

If you have Cali ties, you'd be better off concentrating on LA.

As a side note, UG does somewhat matter at OCI so having gone to Stanford will work for you nicely.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:34 pm

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby dresden doll » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:38 pm

profizzle wrote:thx brah. Prob is my ties to the Bay are stronger (ug there + grew up there). That said, sister lives in L.A. Do you think the relative strength in focusing on a less competitive market (LA over Frisco) would make up for my relatively weaker ties to LA- vis a vis SF? Trying to figure out TCR bid bix to maximize biglaw jerb offer (60% NYC 40% LA) ? ty again!


you have ties to the state itself. I don't think it's a stretch for the employer to believe you'd like to be in LA given your background.

So, yes, I'd sooner focus on LA than Bay Area.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:46 pm

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bk1
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby bk1 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:54 pm

dresden doll wrote:you have ties to the state itself. I don't think it's a stretch for the employer to believe you'd like to be in LA given your background.

So, yes, I'd sooner focus on LA than Bay Area.


SBL made a post in the past few days saying the opposite, that NorCal and SoCal are very separate.

I don't know if having a lone sister there is strong enough to convince employers. Granted having lived in NorCal is better than having never lived in CA at all when going for SoCal, but I don't think it is necessarily easy in the slightest.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby Cavalier » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:17 pm

It depends. If you have no work experience or lack the ability to interview decently, OCI may be a struggle since firms are a lot more picky. Also, if you're unwilling to work in NYC, you may have a tough time finding work, since NYC is by far the largest market. Even if you have strong ties to a secondary market, that market may only have 25-50 SA positions, which will make it very competitive regardless of what school you attend.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:20 pm

Cavalier wrote:Even if you have strong ties to a secondary market, that market may only have 25-50 SA positions, which will make it very competitive regardless of what school you attend.


This. My FL market has like 20 SAs max. And kids from T25 ish schools coming home as well as UF/FSU/UM people all want them. Extremely competitive.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:23 pm

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dresden doll
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby dresden doll » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:24 pm

bk1 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:you have ties to the state itself. I don't think it's a stretch for the employer to believe you'd like to be in LA given your background.

So, yes, I'd sooner focus on LA than Bay Area.


SBL made a post in the past few days saying the opposite, that NorCal and SoCal are very separate.

I don't know if having a lone sister there is strong enough to convince employers. Granted having lived in NorCal is better than having never lived in CA at all when going for SoCal, but I don't think it is necessarily easy in the slightest.


I don't think it's ideal. But I do think that it can work well enough. I know SoCal people who successfully convinced NorCal companies they were all about the Bay Area. I think the reverse is easier, if anything, since NorCal is more competitive.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:25 pm

If you're like the majority of Americans, then sticker at MVP may be your only chance of ever making six figures. A 50 percent chance (and really it's probably higher if you're flexible about location) is a lot better than the typical American's 3 or 4 percent chance at making six figures. Non legal jobs aren't exactly thriving either--contrary to TLS lore.

Then again a lot of people on TLS aren't typical Americans, so they do have connections and undergrad degrees from schools that may provide an easier path to a good salary than law school.
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:26 pm

BruceWayne wrote:If you're like the majority of Americans, then sticker at MVP may be your only chance of ever making six figures. A 50 percent chance (and really it's probably higher if you're flexible about location) is a lot better than the typical American's 3 or 4 percent chance at making six figures. Non legal jobs aren't exactly thriving either--contrary to TLS lore.


F that bro I'm dropping out to be an HVAC technician.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:29 pm

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:31 pm

bk1 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:you have ties to the state itself. I don't think it's a stretch for the employer to believe you'd like to be in LA given your background.

So, yes, I'd sooner focus on LA than Bay Area.


SBL made a post in the past few days saying the opposite, that NorCal and SoCal are very separate.

I don't know if having a lone sister there is strong enough to convince employers. Granted having lived in NorCal is better than having never lived in CA at all when going for SoCal, but I don't think it is necessarily easy in the slightest.



Link?

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:33 pm

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby bk1 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:38 pm

profizzle wrote:Link?


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=140631#p3750966

I'd PM him if you wanted to ask more about it.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:56 pm

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby Cavalier » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:09 pm

profizzle wrote:
rad law wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Even if you have strong ties to a secondary market, that market may only have 25-50 SA positions, which will make it very competitive regardless of what school you attend.


This. My FL market has like 20 SAs max. And kids from T25 ish schools coming home as well as UF/FSU/UM people all want them. Extremely competitive.


So, soln = bid heavy on NYC e.g. >60ish% of bids (even w/ no ties) and hoap one of the 40%ish secondary bids works out?

I'd do 75% NYC (assuming you'd prefer NYC to CA), and mail the firms in the secondary market over the summer before OCI. If your grades are good then use some of the NYC bids on other markets you may be interested in (DC, for example), but I would still keep 1/3 NYC.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:14 pm

Cavalier wrote:I'd do 75% NYC (assuming you'd prefer NYC to CA), and mail the firms in the secondary market over the summer before OCI. If your grades are good then use some of the NYC bids on other markets you may be interested in (DC, for example), but I would still keep 1/3 NYC.


This sounds like my plan of attack.

15-17 school. 75% NYC, 25% ATL, where I have ties. Mass mail FL market because like only 3 firms come to out OCI anyways. No interest in DC.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby dresden doll » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:15 pm

profizzle wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:If you're like the majority of Americans, then sticker at MVP may be your only chance of ever making six figures. A 50 percent chance (and really it's probably higher if you're flexible about location) is a lot better than the typical American's 3 or 4 percent chance at making six figures. Non legal jobs aren't exactly thriving either--contrary to TLS lore.

Then again a lot of people on TLS aren't typical Americans, so they do have connections and undergrad degrees from schools that may provide an easier path to a good salary than law school.



How is MVP >50% BigLaw - even if ur completely flexible about where you live and bid heavy on NYC? If NLJ250 has 50-53% MVP placement from 2009/OCI 07- isnt it closer to 40% nao?


Probably is.

I'd like to note that my school, for one, will include people who got their gigs through mass mailings in their percentages. Consequently, the 'about 2/3rds of CCN-ers get jobs through OCI' spiel should be taken with a grain of salt. I can off hand think of at least five people who had a job at the end of OCI season due to having mass mailed and interviewed in their home markets, not because an OCI firm swept them up.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:33 pm

[quot..
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:22 pm

profizzle wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:If you're like the majority of Americans, then sticker at MVP may be your only chance of ever making six figures. A 50 percent chance (and really it's probably higher if you're flexible about location) is a lot better than the typical American's 3 or 4 percent chance at making six figures. Non legal jobs aren't exactly thriving either--contrary to TLS lore.

Then again a lot of people on TLS aren't typical Americans, so they do have connections and undergrad degrees from schools that may provide an easier path to a good salary than law school.



How is MVP >50% BigLaw - even if ur completely flexible about where you live and bid heavy on NYC? If NLJ250 has 50-53% MVP placement from 2009/OCI 07- isnt it closer to 40% nao?


You're heavily underestimating how many people at MVP don't want to work in NYC and end up bidding lightly on the market. In addition, I'm kind of surprised you're using the MVP grouping but then evaluating job prospects based off of the nlj. The nlj has Michigan and UVA noticeably ahead of Penn, and ahead of NYU as well.

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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:15 am

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thechee
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby thechee » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:23 am

BruceWayne wrote:
profizzle wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:If you're like the majority of Americans, then sticker at MVP may be your only chance of ever making six figures. A 50 percent chance (and really it's probably higher if you're flexible about location) is a lot better than the typical American's 3 or 4 percent chance at making six figures. Non legal jobs aren't exactly thriving either--contrary to TLS lore.

Then again a lot of people on TLS aren't typical Americans, so they do have connections and undergrad degrees from schools that may provide an easier path to a good salary than law school.



How is MVP >50% BigLaw - even if ur completely flexible about where you live and bid heavy on NYC? If NLJ250 has 50-53% MVP placement from 2009/OCI 07- isnt it closer to 40% nao?


You're heavily underestimating how many people at MVP don't want to work in NYC and end up bidding lightly on the market. In addition, I'm kind of surprised you're using the MVP grouping but then evaluating job prospects based off of the nlj. The nlj has Michigan and UVA noticeably ahead of Penn, and ahead of NYU as well.


I wouldn't say noticeably...

V: 52.8%
M: 51%
P: 50.8%
NYU: 50.1%
B: 50%

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RVP11
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby RVP11 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:34 am

Cavalier wrote:It depends. If you have no work experience or lack the ability to interview decently, OCI may be a struggle since firms are a lot more picky. Also, if you're unwilling to work in NYC, you may have a tough time finding work, since NYC is by far the largest market. Even if you have strong ties to a secondary market, that market may only have 25-50 SA positions, which will make it very competitive regardless of what school you attend.


I think this is only true for objectively "desirable" secondary markets like Seattle, Portland, Denver, Charlotte, etc. It's not probably not that difficult to get back to a place like Cleveland, for instance.

Dresdendoll pointed out the right markets that would be easy for someone coming from a T14 school - places like Ohio and Arizona. Places where most people who are born and raised don't even want to return.
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby RVP11 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:36 am

profizzle wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:If you're like the majority of Americans, then sticker at MVP may be your only chance of ever making six figures. A 50 percent chance (and really it's probably higher if you're flexible about location) is a lot better than the typical American's 3 or 4 percent chance at making six figures. Non legal jobs aren't exactly thriving either--contrary to TLS lore.

Then again a lot of people on TLS aren't typical Americans, so they do have connections and undergrad degrees from schools that may provide an easier path to a good salary than law school.



How is MVP >50% BigLaw - even if ur completely flexible about where you live and bid heavy on NYC? If NLJ250 has 50-53% MVP placement from 2009/OCI 07- isnt it closer to 40% nao?


Those NLJ placement rankings are for first-year associates - many people are doing clerkships their first year out.

The more important statistic is the percentage of 2Ls summering at big firms. That number used to be ~80% at some schools, and is probably still somewhere around 50% at most T14s.




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