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Poll ended at Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:56 pm

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profizzle
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Postby profizzle » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:56 pm

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Last edited by profizzle on Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AreJay711
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:02 pm

This depends on your preference for risk, your other opportunities, and how you would feel being a lawyer and not raking in the big bucks. Many people will pay sticker at a TTT (not on here but IRL) while others say it isn't even worth it to pay sticker at Harvard. I voted just M just to be difficult.

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beachbum
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby beachbum » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:10 pm

Yes, and I would throw in DN as well. But it's going to vary wildly from person to person, particularly when you're polling the high-achievers that are disproportionately represented on TLS. I think if you polled the entire population of law school applicants, the answer would be a resounding "YES."

profizzle
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:10 pm

Saw 2009 NLJ #s. Around 50-53% BigLaw for MVP. Doesn't sound too bad to me. Like placing a 180grand blackjack bet. But that was OCI 2007...who knows what the NLJ#s will be in 2011/2012. I'm guessing closer to 40%? (now its moar like a roulette bet. lolz).

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AreJay711
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:20 pm

profizzle wrote:Saw 2009 NLJ #s. Around 50-53% BigLaw for MVP. Doesn't sound too bad to me. Like placing a 180grand blackjack bet. But that was OCI 2007...who knows what the NLJ#s will be in 2011/2012. I'm guessing closer to 40%? (now its moar like a roulette bet. lolz).


lol. Except when you walk into a casino with 180k they comp you free shit all day and night not make you bust your ass for a job. That actually sounds like a better deal.

profizzle
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:56 pm

Lol for some reason this post made me think of Charles Barkley at the craps table: "I personally watched Charles Barkley lose $500k at craps at Caesars back in 2001" -Pocketfives.com lolzzzz

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gdane
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby gdane » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:08 pm

Hey, everyone! You all realize that the economy and legal hiring will improve over the next 2 years, right? I hear so much about "ITE". Things will improve.

MVP are amazing schools and if you believe youre worth investing in, then go for it. Cant be scared of putting yourself out there.

Good luck!

profizzle
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:21 pm

If NLJ numbers were ~50% for MVP in OCI 07 (NLJ 09 numbers). Any guesses what they will be for OCI 08 09 and 10. My guesses are: 45, 40, 45 respectively. thoughts? **Sigh, I miss BOOMTIMES of 05, 06.

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ThomasMN
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby ThomasMN » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:20 am

This reminds me of an odd quirk of our time, no one seems to be retiring! People are working a lot later in life than they used to. Heck there is a sizable part of the legal community that wouldn't even have been alive 50 years ago. That being the case it is our generation that is suffering as spots, across numerous professions, simply are not opening up.

MVP are awesome, given the chance I wold attend them at sticker, but I also have no undergrad debt.

concurrent fork
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby concurrent fork » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:59 am

profizzle wrote:Saw 2009 NLJ #s. Around 50-53% BigLaw for MVP. Doesn't sound too bad to me. Like placing a 180grand blackjack bet. But that was OCI 2007...who knows what the NLJ#s will be in 2011/2012. I'm guessing closer to 40%? (now its moar like a roulette bet. lolz).

This is exactly how you should evaluate the decision if your goal is biglaw. Whether a ~40% chance (or whatever it was this year) is worth it is based on your personal risk tolerance. No one can answer that question for you. Also consider pay/happiness at your current job as well as scholarships from lower-ranked schools.

Objective criteria >>> Starry-eyed 0Ls telling you how "amazing" T14 schools are.

gdane5 wrote:You all realize that the economy and legal hiring will improve over the next 2 years, right?

I wish I could be so certain.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:01 pm

concurrent fork wrote:
profizzle wrote:Saw 2009 NLJ #s. Around 50-53% BigLaw for MVP. Doesn't sound too bad to me. Like placing a 180grand blackjack bet. But that was OCI 2007...who knows what the NLJ#s will be in 2011/2012. I'm guessing closer to 40%? (now its moar like a roulette bet. lolz).

This is exactly how you should evaluate the decision if your goal is biglaw. Whether a ~40% chance (or whatever it was this year) is worth it is based on your personal risk tolerance. No one can answer that question for you. Also consider pay/happiness at your current job as well as scholarships from lower-ranked schools.

Objective criteria >>> Starry-eyed 0Ls telling you how "amazing" T14 schools are.

gdane5 wrote:You all realize that the economy and legal hiring will improve over the next 2 years, right?

I wish I could be so certain.

All of this is TCR.

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gdane
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby gdane » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:51 pm

Call me an optimist and dreamer, but I think people are seriously shortchanging themselves by being scared of all the "ITE" doom and gloom. I'm not advocating going to TTT and TTTT schools at sticker since that's always a bad idea, but I do believe that there are some schools where paying sticker is appropriate.

If I had a shot at any of the MVP schools, I'd take it without a moment's hesitation.

My reasoning would be, "Hey these schools are awesome and carry a great rep. If I work hard, network effectively and conduct a good job search, Ill find something decent". Now, Im sure I wouldnt be the only one with this mindset, but the point is that one has to be confident that they'll land something decent.

This is all a moot point though since Im not going to MVP. :lol:

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bk1
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby bk1 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:55 pm

gdane5 wrote:Call me an optimist and dreamer, but I think people are seriously shortchanging themselves by being scared of all the "ITE" doom and gloom.


When considering blowing away 6 figures worth of money, I'd rather be a realist than an optimist.

Kind of the same approach I take to gambling, but hey if you want to go to a roulette wheel and put 100k down on 0, you go ahead and be an optimist. I'm sure things will work out for you.

09042014
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:03 pm

If a school like Michigan is placing 50% at best, that means people above median are striking out with consistency. That is fairly scary.

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icouldbuyu
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby icouldbuyu » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:04 pm

I'm curious to start an alternate poll to see how many of the people who answered no are in a T6 or were rejected by MVP.

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gdane
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby gdane » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:04 pm

bk1 wrote:When considering blowing away 6 figures worth of money, I'd rather be a realist than an optimist.

Kind of the same approach I take to gambling, but hey if you want to go to a roulette wheel and put 100k down on 0, you go ahead and be an optimist. I'm sure things will work out for you.

Haha! Well damn! Law schools isnt exactly like gambling. For the most part, things are in your control. Not exactly a roulette wheel.

Also, why assume right off the bat that youre "blowing away 6 figures worth of money"? Sure you may not get that 160k biglaw job right out of school, but surely you can still land something decent (65k+). I know people will complain about the loans and whatnot, but paying them off is definitely doable on a 65k+ salary.

Anyway, to each his own. Some people just dont feel comfortable taking a large risk.

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RVP11
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby RVP11 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:09 pm

If you have ties to a secondary, non-uber-competitive market where you wouldn't mind working, and you're also comfortable with working in NYC, then I think the gamble becomes one with much better odds.

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bk1
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby bk1 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:10 pm

gdane5 wrote:Haha! Well damn! Law schools isnt exactly like gambling. For the most part, things are in your control. Not exactly a roulette wheel.

Also, why assume right off the bat that youre "blowing away 6 figures worth of money"? Sure you may not get that 160k biglaw job right out of school, but surely you can still land something decent (65k+). I know people will complain about the loans and whatnot, but paying them off is definitely doable on a 65k+ salary.

Anyway, to each his own. Some people just dont feel comfortable taking a large risk.


"Things are in your control" is misleading. Yes, you control what you do, but you have no control over what everyone else does and they are what determine your grades. In that sense you have very little control as you could do the best you possibly could and still fail miserably. You are not competing against an objective standard, you are dealing with a curve, and the fact that so much rides on your grades makes it a very out of control situation.

Paying off 150k+ worth of loans with a 65k salary seems awful and miserable.

Yet, in the end, I will probably be making a decision that is horrible financially and I will be happy with it. So call me a hypocrite.

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RVP11
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby RVP11 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:11 pm

gdane5 wrote:
bk1 wrote:When considering blowing away 6 figures worth of money, I'd rather be a realist than an optimist.

Kind of the same approach I take to gambling, but hey if you want to go to a roulette wheel and put 100k down on 0, you go ahead and be an optimist. I'm sure things will work out for you.

Haha! Well damn! Law schools isnt exactly like gambling. For the most part, things are in your control. Not exactly a roulette wheel.

Also, why assume right off the bat that youre "blowing away 6 figures worth of money"? Sure you may not get that 160k biglaw job right out of school, but surely you can still land something decent (65k+). I know people will complain about the loans and whatnot, but paying them off is definitely doable on a 65k+ salary.

Anyway, to each his own. Some people just dont feel comfortable taking a large risk.


65k+ jobs aren't exactly growing on trees, and especially not for people who couldn't pull down BigLaw.

BigLaw jobs might actually be the easiest legal jobs to get out of law school.

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dresden doll
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby dresden doll » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:13 pm

RVP11 wrote:If you have ties to a secondary, non-uber-competitive market where you wouldn't mind working, and you're also comfortable with working in NYC, then I think the gamble becomes one with much better odds.


This, although NYC isn't that forgiving once hordes of mediocre students realize its advantages and stack their bids accordingly.

Secondary markets are FTW though for those that want them and can articulate coherent reasons in re: why. Ties + good name school = can potentially get away with below median grades, at least from what I've seen.

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gdane
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby gdane » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:14 pm

Yea that curve really sucks. Lol. Still, while law school isnt 100% under your control, you still have enough sway to push things in the right direction.

Sure paying off 150k in loans on a 65k/yr salary sucks, but its doable. Hell, my dad is paying off a 132k home loan on a 39k/yr salary. He's doing fine.

Besides, one can always move onto bigger and better things as their careers progress. You might start out making 65k/yr, but you could make much more in time.

Good luck Bk!

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bk1
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby bk1 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:17 pm

gdane5 wrote:Sure paying off 150k in loans on a 65k/yr salary sucks, but its doable. Hell, my dad is paying off a 132k home loan on a 39k/yr salary. He's doing fine.

Good luck Bk!


But at least he has a home to show for it. :P

Thanks and to you too.

profizzle
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Postby profizzle » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:10 pm

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Last edited by profizzle on Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby bk1 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:13 pm

profizzle wrote:Do Los Angeles and/or the Bay Area count as secondary markets above?? Assume strong ties (Cal/Stanford Ugrad + immediate family there). If so, would the appropriate bidding strategy (assuming you SOLELY want to maxamize probability of landing a biglaw jerb in any city) be to split bids like 60% NYC 40% CA? Tyia for your perspective, bro.


SF meets the secondary requirement, but not the non-uber-competitive part.

profizzle
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Re: Is MVP worth sticker ITE? (for biglaw)

Postby profizzle » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:22 pm

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Last edited by profizzle on Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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