Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

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mpj_3050
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Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby mpj_3050 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:28 am

I have been accepted to Case Western and anticipate a 10k a year scholarship based on LSN. Of course Case Western's tuition is a massive 40k a year which leaves 90k in tuition plus living expenses. I have also been accepted to the following:

Arkansas-Fayetteville (resident tuition of 10k first year, 3k a semester after that with a top 20% stipulation that I will try and negotiate, residency easy to establish)

Arkansas-Little Rock (resident tuition and probably 7k according to the school is what I should expect and possibly more, 10k a year tuition, residency easy to establish)

Ole Miss-Nothing yet, but hopefully I can get them to take off first year out of state with some leverage)

I still have Nebraska and West Virginia apps out. All of these schools are around 11k for residents and have very low cost of living.

So Case Western is clearly the best school on the list, but it would be a minimum of probably 120k. Would the rankings difference justify debt? Or is Case Western just able to offer a higher chance at big law? Or higher chance of a good mid-law job? Of course you can't assume where you will rank and Case would get big-law for only the absolute top of the class. With the bimodial salary distribution that everyone talks about the probability is making 50k. Would Case's rankings justify debt over the course of a legal career? (provided I actually get a job). I don't care where I live and would like to try to get a government position. Loan forgiveness would take care of the debt but you have to actually get and keep a job for 10 years. IBR for private practice would be horrific with Case's debt level but private practice at 40k would be doable with lower debt levels from other schools.

Any thoughts?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:34 am

Where do you want to work?

Arkansas- Fayetteville - best in state
Ole Miss - best in state
West Virginia - best in state
Nebraska - best in state
Case Western - second in state

I would say pick where you want to work and go there.

I don't think Case is worth $50,000 more than the others though.

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Cmoss
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Re: Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby Cmoss » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:49 am

i have a buddy that is a 3L at Case right now and told me not to go to Case, he says half have jobs lined up and no full time dean since he has been there.

concurrent fork
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Re: Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby concurrent fork » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:03 pm

If retaking is not an option, just try to minimize your debt load. Rankings don't matter at this level, and going to one T2 over another is not going to significantly increase your chances of Biglaw.

Capitol A
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Re: Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby Capitol A » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:57 pm

These are all pretty much regional schools, no? Case Western is in Cleveland. If these were my choices it would definitely be Ole Miss. I have a friend who went to Ole Miss like 4 years ago and he is lead counsel for BP in Mississippi.

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thexfactor
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Re: Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby thexfactor » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:50 am

Cmoss wrote:i have a buddy that is a 3L at Case right now and told me not to go to Case, he says half have jobs lined up and no full time dean since he has been there.


wow i think you should go to case! ITE 1/2 the class having jobs isn't as bad as you think!

Case does OK in it s market. Doesn't place well anywhere outside of ohio. Gone are the days of Jones day, Squire Saunders, Thompson Hine, Baker Hostetler taking 10-20 SA per year. In the past each of those firms would take 3-5 kids from Case. There are also 3-5 more firms who are in the NLJ250 who will also take a couple kids each year from Case. Cleveland actually has a shockingly big legal market compared to other cities its size. I think Upitt is basically the same as Case in terms of opportunities.

IMO I feel that attending Case is a better choice than to attend American. Case is the best school in the Cleveland market. American has way too much competition. Granted that DC is a bigger market, but there are just soo many law schools in the area. GMU, Maryland are two schools that are a stones throw away from DC. THen you add in the higher ranked diploma mills of GW (500) + GULC (500)and you have a cess pool of fresh JDs. I didn't even mention the lower ranked schools in the area such as Catholic and Ubaltimore or WM/WL and UVA which are close in proximity to DC. Lastly, add in the other t14s who want to enter the DC market.

No one is really gunning for Cleveland. Cleveland only has competition from OSU which is comparable to case. CSU is lower ranked but does have some decent pull in Cleveland. The other schools in ohio seem to have little or no pull in Cleveland.

ITE you need top 20% to be competitive at OCI. A lot of people transfer out from this school, so if you are in the top 20%tile or so you will have a decent shot at OCI.

I

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deadpanic
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Re: Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby deadpanic » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:10 am

case probably isn't worth it.

i would tell you ole miss but they are stingy as hell with $. you will get residency for 2L & 3L years so your total will be ~40K in tuition (20K out of state first year, 10k year after that)) + COL, books, etc.

arkansas would not be bad if you are cool with AR or possibly OK/TX. but all of the state schools are going to be pretty cheap, so i think your opinion of the area is more important

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mpj_3050
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Re: Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby mpj_3050 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:51 am

thexfactor wrote:
Cmoss wrote:i have a buddy that is a 3L at Case right now and told me not to go to Case, he says half have jobs lined up and no full time dean since he has been there.


wow i think you should go to case! ITE 1/2 the class having jobs isn't as bad as you think!

Case does OK in it s market. Doesn't place well anywhere outside of ohio. Gone are the days of Jones day, Squire Saunders, Thompson Hine, Baker Hostetler taking 10-20 SA per year. In the past each of those firms would take 3-5 kids from Case. There are also 3-5 more firms who are in the NLJ250 who will also take a couple kids each year from Case. Cleveland actually has a shockingly big legal market compared to other cities its size. I think Upitt is basically the same as Case in terms of opportunities.

IMO I feel that attending Case is a better choice than to attend American. Case is the best school in the Cleveland market. American has way too much competition. Granted that DC is a bigger market, but there are just soo many law schools in the area. GMU, Maryland are two schools that are a stones throw away from DC. THen you add in the higher ranked diploma mills of GW (500) + GULC (500)and you have a cess pool of fresh JDs. I didn't even mention the lower ranked schools in the area such as Catholic and Ubaltimore or WM/WL and UVA which are close in proximity to DC. Lastly, add in the other t14s who want to enter the DC market.

No one is really gunning for Cleveland. Cleveland only has competition from OSU which is comparable to case. CSU is lower ranked but does have some decent pull in Cleveland. The other schools in ohio seem to have little or no pull in Cleveland.

ITE you need top 20% to be competitive at OCI. A lot of people transfer out from this school, so if you are in the top 20%tile or so you will have a decent shot at OCI.

I


This is something I am a bit confused on. For OCI typically it is the larger firms and more prestigious government work that make offers before bar passage, correct? Obviously getting a job is difficult now and I don't want to assume I would be in the top 20% at Case to be competitive at OCI. With Case's debt level at 135k with a 10k scholarship that I anticipate receiving I don't know if a higher chance of getting a job at graduation is worth it because Case is a good school but it is certainly not prestigious. These other schools are vastly cheaper but are ranked lower and in small markets, however; Case would require a government job with public service loan forgiveness or something that pays quite well to be able to manage the debt. I guess I can see both sides of the argument Case is traditionally a low T1 and the others are regional state schools with okay prospects. Case would offer a bigger payoff if I am able to rank high or it could live a good bit of debt.

iWayneState
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Re: Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby iWayneState » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:56 am

mpj_3050 wrote:
thexfactor wrote:
Cmoss wrote:i have a buddy that is a 3L at Case right now and told me not to go to Case, he says half have jobs lined up and no full time dean since he has been there.


wow i think you should go to case! ITE 1/2 the class having jobs isn't as bad as you think!

Case does OK in it s market. Doesn't place well anywhere outside of ohio. Gone are the days of Jones day, Squire Saunders, Thompson Hine, Baker Hostetler taking 10-20 SA per year. In the past each of those firms would take 3-5 kids from Case. There are also 3-5 more firms who are in the NLJ250 who will also take a couple kids each year from Case. Cleveland actually has a shockingly big legal market compared to other cities its size. I think Upitt is basically the same as Case in terms of opportunities.

IMO I feel that attending Case is a better choice than to attend American. Case is the best school in the Cleveland market. American has way too much competition. Granted that DC is a bigger market, but there are just soo many law schools in the area. GMU, Maryland are two schools that are a stones throw away from DC. THen you add in the higher ranked diploma mills of GW (500) + GULC (500)and you have a cess pool of fresh JDs. I didn't even mention the lower ranked schools in the area such as Catholic and Ubaltimore or WM/WL and UVA which are close in proximity to DC. Lastly, add in the other t14s who want to enter the DC market.

No one is really gunning for Cleveland. Cleveland only has competition from OSU which is comparable to case. CSU is lower ranked but does have some decent pull in Cleveland. The other schools in ohio seem to have little or no pull in Cleveland.

ITE you need top 20% to be competitive at OCI. A lot of people transfer out from this school, so if you are in the top 20%tile or so you will have a decent shot at OCI.

I


This is something I am a bit confused on. For OCI typically it is the larger firms and more prestigious government work that make offers before bar passage, correct? Obviously getting a job is difficult now and I don't want to assume I would be in the top 20% at Case to be competitive at OCI. With Case's debt level at 135k with a 10k scholarship that I anticipate receiving I don't know if a higher chance of getting a job at graduation is worth it because Case is a good school but it is certainly not prestigious. These other schools are vastly cheaper but are ranked lower and in small markets, however; Case would require a government job with public service loan forgiveness or something that pays quite well to be able to manage the debt. I guess I can see both sides of the argument Case is traditionally a low T1 and the others are regional state schools with okay prospects. Case would offer a bigger payoff if I am able to rank high or it could live a good bit of debt.


WVU is 17K a year for instate student, ftr. They hiked up tuition. I received a half tuition scholly as a instate resident and I still had to pay close to 9K a year in tuition alone.

Case2L
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Re: Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby Case2L » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:44 pm

If you have no preference in terms of location, I would go with Ole Miss. Comparably low tuition, plus it's the best school in the state by a long shot, and the Ole Miss brand name may have some national mobility, or at least good mobility throughout the southeast. I'm happy to have attended Case, but it's not for everyone. Looking at your choice in schools, I am guessing you have tie to the southeast. If that is the case, then Miss is probably the best choice.

MrAnon
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Re: Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby MrAnon » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:20 pm

none of these schools have national mobility and they are all essentially equals in terms of local reputation. Go with the school that is in the area you want to live in after law school. How on earth did you wind up applying to schools in both Cleveland and the deep south? Interesting strategy.

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mpj_3050
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Re: Case Western vs. other schools I've been accepted to

Postby mpj_3050 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:33 pm

MrAnon wrote:none of these schools have national mobility and they are all essentially equals in terms of local reputation. Go with the school that is in the area you want to live in after law school. How on earth did you wind up applying to schools in both Cleveland and the deep south? Interesting strategy.


Well, I am an Ohio resident and really don't care where I live. I have travelled around a little bit in the military and if you are open and friendly you can be accepted anywhere. These SEC schools tend to have low cost of living, favorable residency residency requirements, and tuition is half of what the publics are in Ohio. As for the best school in the state, OSU, I would not get in with a 3.54 and 160 because nothing about my file would be all that great. Case is massively expensive even with a probable 10k scholarship based off of last year's numbers but it offers access to a superior legal market. I applied because it was only $12 and wanted to see what happened. Case Western would offer the biggest payoff if you do really well but it would be an enormous gamble.

My strategy was to stay away from the big legal markets because I can't compete with the t-14 let alone the regional powers around D.C., NYC, and Chicago. I am trying to lower debt levels while in school and thinking about where I would live afterwards because I know I cannot get any real mobility unless I do phenomenally well at any of these schools. It is pretty weird seeing Case Western and then seeing deep south schools. I have talked to some people here about Ole Miss and am trying to find out information about the other schools as well. None of these schools can get 100k out of the gate for any but the top of the class. Working in state or local government would be perfect for me, but of course you actually have to get the job first.




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