Thoughts on McGeorge?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
NorCalBruin
Posts: 591
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:58 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby NorCalBruin » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:28 pm

I got a call from McGeorge today responding to my email. They said they were unwilling and/or unable to negotiate the terms of the scholarship. The guy was nice and gave me a whole list of reasons why.

I'm somewhat disappointed. I'll go check it out anyway in the spring and just kind of see where else I get in and where else gives me monies. Who knows, maybe I'll love it?

Minor bummers though...

User avatar
XxSpyKEx
Posts: 1741
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:48 am

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:47 pm

NorCalBruin wrote:I got a call from McGeorge today responding to my email. They said they were unwilling and/or unable to negotiate the terms of the scholarship. The guy was nice and gave me a whole list of reasons why.


Probably left out the real reason though. I.e. that they want to make money, and top 1/3 stipulation + section stacking = 2/3 of scholarships given out disappear by the end of 1L, and they get the benefits of recruiting students with better numbers for USNews ranking purposes.

User avatar
megaTTTron
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby megaTTTron » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:53 pm

NorCalBruin wrote:I got a call from McGeorge today responding to my email. They said they were unwilling and/or unable to negotiate the terms of the scholarship. The guy was nice and gave me a whole list of reasons why.

I'm somewhat disappointed. I'll go check it out anyway in the spring and just kind of see where else I get in and where else gives me monies. Who knows, maybe I'll love it?

Minor bummers though...


That really sucks! Mostly for McGeorge. Reflects pretty poorly on the school. Wait until you get some other acceptances under your belt and maybe send another request. Either way, you should have some $$ and nice acceptances elsewhere. Don't sweat it, they're pretty cold to stiff a legacy though.

EDIT: Don't feel alone. My 1L LS stiffed me on a scholly to stay (i was paying sticker before). As the poster below me mentioned, law schools only give out what they have to.
Last edited by megaTTTron on Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby General Tso » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:54 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
NorCalBruin wrote:I got a call from McGeorge today responding to my email. They said they were unwilling and/or unable to negotiate the terms of the scholarship. The guy was nice and gave me a whole list of reasons why.


Probably left out the real reason though. I.e. that they want to make money, and top 1/3 stipulation + section stacking = 2/3 of scholarships given out disappear by the end of 1L, and they get the benefits of recruiting students with better numbers for USNews ranking purposes.


ITE McGeorge will probably find enough 165+ people who are willing to live with the top 1/3 req. Don't forget that GPA/LSAT is only part of the USNWR formula....there is also expenditures per student and faculty reputation. Both of those depend on having enough cash. Call it what it is...it's a business. They've got this stuff all down to a formula I can assure you.

User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby General Tso » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:55 pm

FWIW San Diego doesn't negotiate GPA req's either.

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby 20160810 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:59 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
NorCalBruin wrote:I got a call from McGeorge today responding to my email. They said they were unwilling and/or unable to negotiate the terms of the scholarship. The guy was nice and gave me a whole list of reasons why.

I'm somewhat disappointed. I'll go check it out anyway in the spring and just kind of see where else I get in and where else gives me monies. Who knows, maybe I'll love it?

Minor bummers though...


That really sucks! Mostly for McGeorge. Reflects pretty poorly on the school. Wait until you get some other acceptances under your belt and maybe send another request. Either way, you should have some $$ and nice acceptances elsewhere. Don't sweat it, they're pretty cold to stiff a legacy though.

EDIT: Don't feel alone. My 1L LS stiffed me on a scholly to stay (i was paying sticker before). As the poster below me mentioned, law schools only give out what they have to.

This is the credited point to make. Like it or not, TLS is a legitimate market player in the law school game now, and McGeorge just insured that everyone with a 165 who was thinking about taking one of their scholarships will now think twice, and probably go to Davis or Hastings instead. Looks like they're determined to remain a festering TTT, and more power to them.

yo!
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:11 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby yo! » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:46 pm

Just FYI: I got the full ride at McG last year and they absolutely would NOT remove the stipulation. When I asked about it, they said that they only give out one scholarship with no strings attached, and you have to specififally commit to PI work. When I negotiated with them about it, they offered me the Kennedy fellowship, which added free books and a full ride to the summer program in austria, but they absolutely would not budge on the top 1/3 requirement.

User avatar
drdolittle
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:15 am

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby drdolittle » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:01 pm

yo! wrote:Just FYI: I got the full ride at McG last year and they absolutely would NOT remove the stipulation. When I asked about it, they said that they only give out one scholarship with no strings attached, and you have to specififally commit to PI work. When I negotiated with them about it, they offered me the Kennedy fellowship, which added free books and a full ride to the summer program in austria, but they absolutely would not budge on the top 1/3 requirement.


That Kennedy fellowship sounds awesome. I never had a deal that enticing on the table. Are you happy you chose Davis over McG & the Kennedy?

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby 20160810 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:07 pm

This is mainly an idea to be tried for the lulz, but since OP isn't going to McGeorge anyway he may as well call them on their bullshit: Offer to take the scholarship if they give you proof that they don't plan to section stack. Say that you will accept if they will agree that kids with GPAs and LSAT scores at or above the 75th percentile will be spread evenly throughout the sections, and demand proof.

User avatar
hokie
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:32 am

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby hokie » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:22 pm

The decision should come down to where you feel the most comfortable (and won't regret) ITE. Seeing as you have employment already wrapped up, I would decide on the school based on personal preference and money. You're numbers are pretty good so I would wait it out and see the other schools that you get into - then go visit and check them out. However, I would definitely still leave a full ride at McGeorge as a viable prospective :wink:

Dman
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:28 am

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby Dman » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:28 pm

SBL, what is your obsession with McGeorge and section stacking. While I was there last year, I looked for evidence that it happened. I agree it may exist, but it is not as blatant as you make it sound. There are way more scholarships given out than can fit into one section, and I know that in my section most had schollies. Yet most of the full ride folks were NOT in my section. I also know that there were a few no scholarship folks in my section. Was there stacking? Hard to say with the number of scholarship out there being something like 55% of the student body. I agree giving more scholarships than can be deemed devious, but I am not sure it qualifies as section stacking.

yo!
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:11 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby yo! » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:35 pm

drdolittle wrote:
yo! wrote:Just FYI: I got the full ride at McG last year and they absolutely would NOT remove the stipulation. When I asked about it, they said that they only give out one scholarship with no strings attached, and you have to specififally commit to PI work. When I negotiated with them about it, they offered me the Kennedy fellowship, which added free books and a full ride to the summer program in austria, but they absolutely would not budge on the top 1/3 requirement.


That Kennedy fellowship sounds awesome. I never had a deal that enticing on the table. Are you happy you chose Davis over McG & the Kennedy?


yes and no....I like Davis, but the 100K of debt I'm about to have definitely weighs on my mind. I chose UCD because I did not want to end up in a position where I lost the scholarship and had to consider dropping out. My scholarship at Davis isn't much, but I only have to "maintain satisfactory academic progress," so it's nice to know that I will have it all three years. Was it a good decision? I couldn't tell you; ask me in 2013. I just talked with buddy who dropped out (the UCD 1L of ATL fame), so shit's a little depressing right now.

BlueDiamond
Posts: 953
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby BlueDiamond » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:36 pm

Dman wrote:SBL, what is your obsession with McGeorge and section stacking. While I was there last year, I looked for evidence that it happened. I agree it may exist, but it is not as blatant as you make it sound. There are way more scholarships given out than can fit into one section, and I know that in my section most had schollies. Yet most of the full ride folks were NOT in my section. I also know that there were a few no scholarship folks in my section. Was there stacking? Hard to say with the number of scholarship out there being something like 55% of the student body. I agree giving more scholarships than can be deemed devious, but I am not sure it qualifies as section stacking.


So most of the full rides weren't in your section and few without any money were in you section.. when looking at section stacking it seems like you'd be in the one in the middle then right? I feel like your description sets up a perfect example of section stacking. If most full rides weren't in yours they must be in another (likely grouped together) and the few with no money (also grouped together). Maybe I just am not picking up what you were trying to say though.

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby 20160810 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:44 pm

yo! wrote:
drdolittle wrote:
yo! wrote:Just FYI: I got the full ride at McG last year and they absolutely would NOT remove the stipulation. When I asked about it, they said that they only give out one scholarship with no strings attached, and you have to specififally commit to PI work. When I negotiated with them about it, they offered me the Kennedy fellowship, which added free books and a full ride to the summer program in austria, but they absolutely would not budge on the top 1/3 requirement.


That Kennedy fellowship sounds awesome. I never had a deal that enticing on the table. Are you happy you chose Davis over McG & the Kennedy?


yes and no....I like Davis, but the 100K of debt I'm about to have definitely weighs on my mind. I chose UCD because I did not want to end up in a position where I lost the scholarship and had to consider dropping out. My scholarship at Davis isn't much, but I only have to "maintain satisfactory academic progress," so it's nice to know that I will have it all three years. Was it a good decision? I couldn't tell you; ask me in 2013. I just talked with buddy who dropped out (the UCD 1L of ATL fame), so shit's a little depressing right now.

Who was the UCD 1L of ATL fame? PM me with details immediately plz someone.

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby 20160810 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:48 pm

Dman wrote:SBL, what is your obsession with McGeorge and section stacking. While I was there last year, I looked for evidence that it happened. I agree it may exist, but it is not as blatant as you make it sound. There are way more scholarships given out than can fit into one section, and I know that in my section most had schollies. Yet most of the full ride folks were NOT in my section. I also know that there were a few no scholarship folks in my section. Was there stacking? Hard to say with the number of scholarship out there being something like 55% of the student body. I agree giving more scholarships than can be deemed devious, but I am not sure it qualifies as section stacking.

My concern about the practice comes from the fact that it's basically designed to rip you guys off. And I don't think said concern is really disproven by your observations. Sure, 55% of the kids at McGeorge might be there on scholarships, but most of those are small ones. I'd wager that most of the kids with half-tution or better scholarships are grouped together. It's ridiculous to me that kids who could have gone to UCLA or better are lured to a school as bad as McGeorge with big scholarships that the school then attempts to take away from them ASAP as soon as they get what they need from them (i.e. slightly higher medians for USNews).

Dman
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:28 am

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby Dman » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:55 pm

I my mind, section stacking is when you place all the top people in the same section and let them fight it out. Based on that definition, my section had many 15k-25k Scholarships with mostly tenured professors (added detail sorry). If they were really section stacking why would they not take the full ride people (I want to say there was something like 3-5 in total last year) and put them with those of us entering in with 75th percentile GPA/ LSAT. From a pure numbers game, you would want all the highest scholarships grouped together, so it would increase your chances of getting some of them knocked pas the top 1/3 line.

I don't have remotely complete data on other sections scholarship amounts. However I know the average scholarship was around 10k, and knowing that we had many of the higher ones in my section, while at the same time some of the biggest were not in my section, would give evidence that there was not pure section stacking.

Now there could of been moderate stacking, with some sort of deviation for a small % of large scholarships to avoid any conclusive evidence and prevent anyone from actually calling them on it. But that is purely speculative.

User avatar
megaTTTron
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby megaTTTron » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:14 pm

SBL wrote:
Dman wrote:SBL, what is your obsession with McGeorge and section stacking. While I was there last year, I looked for evidence that it happened. I agree it may exist, but it is not as blatant as you make it sound. There are way more scholarships given out than can fit into one section, and I know that in my section most had schollies. Yet most of the full ride folks were NOT in my section. I also know that there were a few no scholarship folks in my section. Was there stacking? Hard to say with the number of scholarship out there being something like 55% of the student body. I agree giving more scholarships than can be deemed devious, but I am not sure it qualifies as section stacking.

My concern about the practice comes from the fact that it's basically designed to rip you guys off. And I don't think said concern is really disproven by your observations. Sure, 55% of the kids at McGeorge might be there on scholarships, but most of those are small ones. I'd wager that most of the kids with half-tution or better scholarships are grouped together. It's ridiculous to me that kids who could have gone to UCLA or better are lured to a school as bad as McGeorge with big scholarships that the school then attempts to take away from them ASAP as soon as they get what they need from them (i.e. slightly higher medians for USNews).


A-men. I would love to see how McG responds to a request for proof that they don't section stack. Has anyone ever done that?

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby 20160810 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:48 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
SBL wrote:
Dman wrote:SBL, what is your obsession with McGeorge and section stacking. While I was there last year, I looked for evidence that it happened. I agree it may exist, but it is not as blatant as you make it sound. There are way more scholarships given out than can fit into one section, and I know that in my section most had schollies. Yet most of the full ride folks were NOT in my section. I also know that there were a few no scholarship folks in my section. Was there stacking? Hard to say with the number of scholarship out there being something like 55% of the student body. I agree giving more scholarships than can be deemed devious, but I am not sure it qualifies as section stacking.

My concern about the practice comes from the fact that it's basically designed to rip you guys off. And I don't think said concern is really disproven by your observations. Sure, 55% of the kids at McGeorge might be there on scholarships, but most of those are small ones. I'd wager that most of the kids with half-tution or better scholarships are grouped together. It's ridiculous to me that kids who could have gone to UCLA or better are lured to a school as bad as McGeorge with big scholarships that the school then attempts to take away from them ASAP as soon as they get what they need from them (i.e. slightly higher medians for USNews).


A-men. I would love to see how McG responds to a request for proof that they don't section stack. Has anyone ever done that?

No, but it's legitimately worth asking if OP doesn't want to go there anyway.

If they reply with data objectively proving that they do not participate in this practice, I stand ready to issue a full apology. I am skeptical, however, that such data is forthcoming.

Dman
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:28 am

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby Dman » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:51 pm

I actually did ask the question last year to staff (I forget who, not sure if it was with the Dean or not). The answer was that there is some randomized method that evenly distributed students. I did not press it farther or ask for evidence SBL style :P

User avatar
drdolittle
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:15 am

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby drdolittle » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:53 pm

yo! wrote:
drdolittle wrote:
yo! wrote:Just FYI: I got the full ride at McG last year and they absolutely would NOT remove the stipulation. When I asked about it, they said that they only give out one scholarship with no strings attached, and you have to specififally commit to PI work. When I negotiated with them about it, they offered me the Kennedy fellowship, which added free books and a full ride to the summer program in austria, but they absolutely would not budge on the top 1/3 requirement.


That Kennedy fellowship sounds awesome. I never had a deal that enticing on the table. Are you happy you chose Davis over McG & the Kennedy?


yes and no....I like Davis, but the 100K of debt I'm about to have definitely weighs on my mind. I chose UCD because I did not want to end up in a position where I lost the scholarship and had to consider dropping out. My scholarship at Davis isn't much, but I only have to "maintain satisfactory academic progress," so it's nice to know that I will have it all three years. Was it a good decision? I couldn't tell you; ask me in 2013. I just talked with buddy who dropped out (the UCD 1L of ATL fame), so shit's a little depressing right now.


Sorry to hear this, man. I think you made the most sensible decision though. You're getting guaranteed money at Davis, which is still something, and don't have to deal with the terrifying thought of possibly attending McG at full price when you could've gone to Davis on scholarship. Good luck!
Last edited by drdolittle on Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
megaTTTron
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby megaTTTron » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:53 pm

Dman wrote:I actually did ask the question last year to staff (I forget who, not sure if it was with the Dean or not). The answer was that there is some randomized method that evenly distributed students. I did not press it farther or ask for evidence SBL style :P


Your response, as a freshly minted TLS 1L, should have been, "pictures or it didn't happen."

BlueDiamond
Posts: 953
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby BlueDiamond » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:56 pm

Dman wrote:I actually did ask the question last year to staff (I forget who, not sure if it was with the Dean or not). The answer was that there is some randomized method that evenly distributed students. I did not press it farther or ask for evidence SBL style :P


lol that is a pretty nice answer from them.. can easily read that to be beneficial to the school rather than the students.. what constitutes an even distribution? all students, or are there different breakdowns of students (those on scholarship or those who aren't)?

I also have no proof that they section stack, but I feel as though it is more likely than not.. and that goes for more places than just McGeorge

User avatar
drdolittle
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:15 am

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby drdolittle » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:56 pm

Dman wrote:I actually did ask the question last year to staff (I forget who, not sure if it was with the Dean or not). The answer was that there is some randomized method that evenly distributed students. I did not press it farther or ask for evidence SBL style :P


I wouldn't be surprised if all schools outside of YHS stack sections to mitigate against all their best students transferring to YHS.

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby 20160810 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:56 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
Dman wrote:I actually did ask the question last year to staff (I forget who, not sure if it was with the Dean or not). The answer was that there is some randomized method that evenly distributed students. I did not press it farther or ask for evidence SBL style :P


Your response, as a freshly minted TLS 1L, should have been, "pictures or it didn't happen."

I loled.

I have no doubt that the section assignment at McGeorge is *largely* random, but something tells me it is not completely so.

Dman
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:28 am

Re: Thoughts on McGeorge?

Postby Dman » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:00 am

megaTTTron wrote:
Dman wrote:I actually did ask the question last year to staff (I forget who, not sure if it was with the Dean or not). The answer was that there is some randomized method that evenly distributed students. I did not press it farther or ask for evidence SBL style :P


Your response, as a freshly minted TLS 1L, should have been, "pictures or it didn't happen."



Just for clarification, I am a 2L transfer from McGeorge. I guess I was pretty loose with last year....it was during my admission cycle, which doesn't seem that long ago...damn time flies.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests