UC Berkeley worth sticker?

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clone22
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UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby clone22 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:13 am

Let's say you don't have a particular preference for staying in california after graduation, but you wouldn't mind staying there either. Would sticker at Boalt be worth it? If not, what's the maximum sane amount of debt you'd go into to attend that school (keeping in mind sticker for out of state ends up over $210K in debt)?

Or would a full ride from a tier 2 school in an isolated market make more sense? (assuming there's a top 30% requirement for you to keep the full ride at T2)

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General Tso
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby General Tso » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:14 am

I probably would not attend Berkeley at 210k debt. Attend USC on 2/3 scholarship or something.

whymeohgodno
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:28 am

General Tso wrote:I probably would not attend Berkeley at 210k debt. Attend USC on 2/3 scholarship or something.


Bad advice. OP said he doesn't really have a preference as where to practice. In that case Berkeley would be worth it since it's reach is way more national than USC. Attending USC would limit OP greatly even if he doesn't mind practicing in Cali.

Cassius Sterling
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby Cassius Sterling » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:37 am

Berkeley is worth "sticker." It's one of the best law schools in the country. You should be proud of yourself for getting in. Most people you meet--both within and outside the legal community--will think you're brilliant simply for having gone there. Attending a lesser ranked school at a discount is a reasonable option, but in my opinion, the actual difference in monthy interest you'll be paying on a 2/3 loan at USC compared to a full loan at Berkeley will be relatively small. Of course, there does come a point when the difference becomes significant--1/2, 1/4, et cetera. But that decision is really yours. The downside of going to a tier 2 school in an isolated market is simple: your employment prospects will be limited to that area. If you're fine with that kind of restriction, take that school with a scholarship.

It is true that Berkeley's placement statistics into Big Law are low relative to the rest of the T-14, but this discrepancy is more a product of Berkeley students opting for other kinds of legal practice than it is a reflection of Berkeley's ability to place into Big Law. My ultimate answer to your question is a whole-hearted yes, and I encourage you not to let the "T-6 or bust" or "HYS or bust" people on this thread get you down.

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General Tso
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby General Tso » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:45 am

whymeohgodno wrote:
General Tso wrote:I probably would not attend Berkeley at 210k debt. Attend USC on 2/3 scholarship or something.


Bad advice. OP said he doesn't really have a preference as where to practice. In that case Berkeley would be worth it since it's reach is way more national than USC. Attending USC would limit OP greatly even if he doesn't mind practicing in Cali.


I agree in that case. Attend WUSTL or something.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:55 am

General Tso wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
General Tso wrote:I probably would not attend Berkeley at 210k debt. Attend USC on 2/3 scholarship or something.


Bad advice. OP said he doesn't really have a preference as where to practice. In that case Berkeley would be worth it since it's reach is way more national than USC. Attending USC would limit OP greatly even if he doesn't mind practicing in Cali.


I agree in that case. Attend WUSTL or something.


I agree with General Tso that Berkeley is not worth $210,000. The "reach" of Berkeley was not what the OP was asking about. He/she was asking if it was "worth" it - which it isn't.

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General Tso
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby General Tso » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:11 am

It just seems like below median Boalt people are not much better off than Hastings/Davis people. I got beaten out for a 70k Fresno job by several Boalt people. I mean, what could be worse than a 70k Fresno job and 210k in debt? I'll take my dignity, my ~60k Hastings debt, and a 50k Bay Area job before that garbage...

CanadianWolf
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:39 am

This question is difficult to answer without comprehensive knowledge of each person's situation. Berkeley, therefore, may be worth sticker price for some, but not all, depending upon various considerations.
Based on the limited information shared in the OP's original post in this thread, then UCal-Berkeley may be worth sticker versus a scholarship at a Tier Two law school if the Tier Two is not in OP's target market.
The easy answer is that Berkeley at sticker price is worth paying versus a full tuition (with stipulations) scholarship at UNLV-Boyd even if your target market is Las Vegas because it is a small market & your desired location may change.

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20160810
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby 20160810 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:45 am

Considering there are roughly 10-20x more applicants willing to go to UCB at sticker than they are able to admit, I would say that yes, purely in the market-driven sense a Boalt JD is unquestionably worth the sticker price. Whether it's a good investment for you depends on who you are, what kinds of resources you're coming to law school with, how debt-averse you are, whether you're willing to spend a few years working for a big firm, and a host of other factors.

But generally speaking, I think the answer is probably yes. If you've decided to buy yourself a J.D. for $200,000, there are only a few places you can go where you're going to get more for your money than UCB, and a whole lot where you'll get less. That said, if you're interested in PI, you might be money ahead to try and gun for scholarships at other T1 schools.

krad
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby krad » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:57 am

SBL wrote:Considering there are roughly 10-20x more applicants willing to go to UCB at sticker than they are able to admit, I would say that yes, purely in the market-driven sense a Boalt JD is unquestionably worth the sticker price. Whether it's a good investment for you depends on who you are, what kinds of resources you're coming to law school with, how debt-averse you are, whether you're willing to spend a few years working for a big firm, and a host of other factors.

But generally speaking, I think the answer is probably yes. If you've decided to buy yourself a J.D. for $200,000, there are only a few places you can go where you're going to get more for your money than UCB, and a whole lot where you'll get less. That said, if you're interested in PI, you might be money ahead to try and gun for scholarships at other T1 schools.


Edit: Regardless, I'd probably go to B in a heartbeat.

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Teoeo
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby Teoeo » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:08 am

I would have done some highly illegal things to go to Berkeley at sticker.

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Jim Raynor
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby Jim Raynor » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:51 pm

I've been a lurker on TLS for awhile; such a helpful site. So I've been accepted to Berkeley and am trying to figure out the same thing as the OP. I have a small family and can see us taking out quite a bit in loan money. CoA: $57,000*3 = $171,000 and CoL: $25,000*3 = $75,000 Buttload of debt: $256,000

First, is it possible to even take out that much money in loans? (Without a crazy high interest rate)

Second, does LRAP cover all of that?

Third, there are only two feasible options for post-lawschool with that type of debt: biglaw and public interest/government LRAP... right?

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BruceWayne
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:56 pm

Cassius Sterling wrote:Berkeley is worth "sticker." It's one of the best law schools in the country. You should be proud of yourself for getting in. Most people you meet--both within and outside the legal community--will think you're brilliant simply for having gone there. Attending a lesser ranked school at a discount is a reasonable option, but in my opinion, the actual difference in monthy interest you'll be paying on a 2/3 loan at USC compared to a full loan at Berkeley will be relatively small. Of course, there does come a point when the difference becomes significant--1/2, 1/4, et cetera. But that decision is really yours. The downside of going to a tier 2 school in an isolated market is simple: your employment prospects will be limited to that area. If you're fine with that kind of restriction, take that school with a scholarship.

It is true that Berkeley's placement statistics into Big Law are low relative to the rest of the T-14, but this discrepancy is more a product of Berkeley students opting for other kinds of legal practice than it is a reflection of Berkeley's ability to place into Big Law. My ultimate answer to your question is a whole-hearted yes, and I encourage you not to let the "T-6 or bust" or "HYS or bust" people on this thread get you down.



SBL wrote:Considering there are roughly 10-20x more applicants willing to go to UCB at sticker than they are able to admit, I would say that yes, purely in the market-driven sense a Boalt JD is unquestionably worth the sticker price. Whether it's a good investment for you depends on who you are, what kinds of resources you're coming to law school with, how debt-averse you are, whether you're willing to spend a few years working for a big firm, and a host of other factors.

But generally speaking, I think the answer is probably yes. If you've decided to buy yourself a J.D. for $200,000, there are only a few places you can go where you're going to get more for your money than UCB, and a whole lot where you'll get less. That said, if you're interested in PI, you might be money ahead to try and gun for scholarships at other T1 schools.



I wonder how long it's going to take for some TLS fanatics to come in and " destroy" these posts with "facts" from autoadmit and facts about the "placement gap" between Boalt and "the top 6".

SageD
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby SageD » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:24 pm

If you're committed to being a lawyer, I can't imagine anyone ever looking back on their life and saying, "aw, shit. I wish I hadn't gone to Berkeley."

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bilbobaggins
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby bilbobaggins » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Only on TLS do people worry about going to Berkeley.

jwmalone87
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby jwmalone87 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:48 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:Only on TLS do people worry about going to Berkeley.

I lol'd. Just go, man.

r6_philly
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby r6_philly » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:51 pm

SBL wrote:Considering there are roughly 10-20x more applicants willing to go to UCB at sticker than they are able to admit, I would say that yes, purely in the market-driven sense a Boalt JD is unquestionably worth the sticker price. Whether it's a good investment for you depends on who you are, what kinds of resources you're coming to law school with, how debt-averse you are, whether you're willing to spend a few years working for a big firm, and a host of other factors.

But generally speaking, I think the answer is probably yes. If you've decided to buy yourself a J.D. for $200,000, there are only a few places you can go where you're going to get more for your money than UCB, and a whole lot where you'll get less. That said, if you're interested in PI, you might be money ahead to try and gun for scholarships at other T1 schools.


LRAP at Boalt looks great.

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im_blue
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby im_blue » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:51 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:Only on TLS do people worry about going to Berkeley.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=140021

r6_philly
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby r6_philly » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:52 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:Only on TLS do people worry about going to Berkeley.


And you worry about certain kind of people going to Berkeley. Only on TLS. :wink:

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AreJay711
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:00 am

SBL wrote:Considering there are roughly 10-20x more applicants willing to go to UCB at sticker than they are able to admit, I would say that yes, purely in the market-driven sense a Boalt JD is unquestionably worth the sticker price. Whether it's a good investment for you depends on who you are, what kinds of resources you're coming to law school with, how debt-averse you are, whether you're willing to spend a few years working for a big firm, and a host of other factors.

But generally speaking, I think the answer is probably yes. If you've decided to buy yourself a J.D. for $200,000, there are only a few places you can go where you're going to get more for your money than UCB, and a whole lot where you'll get less. That said, if you're interested in PI, you might be money ahead to try and gun for scholarships at other T1 schools.


Assuming that people are acting rationally in regards to going to law school might be a bit of a stretch. Either rationally or irrationally however, I would go to Berkeley at sticker depending on my other options.

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BruceWayne
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:02 am

bilbobaggins wrote:Only on TLS do people worry about going to Berkeley.


lmao +100 "Is going to a mere top 10 law school, the second best in the entire state of California a bad idea?"

SageD
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby SageD » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:14 am

I don't know about the rest of ya'll, but I was going Rhodes Scholar then full ride at Yale or bust. Sadly, I only managed a half scholly at Stanford. So now I think I'll just give up and see what kind of job I can get with my philosophy BA. :(

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AreJay711
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:19 am

SageD wrote:I don't know about the rest of ya'll, but I was going Rhodes Scholar then full ride at Yale or bust. Sadly, I only managed a half scholly at Stanford. So now I think I'll just give up and see what kind of job I can get with my philosophy BA. :(


I think you are coming on a little too strong.

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General Tso
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby General Tso » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:27 am

BruceWayne wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Only on TLS do people worry about going to Berkeley.


lmao +100 "Is going to a mere top 10 law school, the second best in the entire state of California a bad idea?"


I read an article recently where the director of Stanford's MBA was complaining about fewer applications. At some point the cost exceeds the benefit of even top programs.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: UC Berkeley worth sticker?

Postby bilbobaggins » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:32 am

General Tso wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:Only on TLS do people worry about going to Berkeley.


lmao +100 "Is going to a mere top 10 law school, the second best in the entire state of California a bad idea?"


I read an article recently where the director of Stanford's MBA was complaining about fewer applications. At some point the cost exceeds the benefit of even top programs.


I read an article recently that statements like this have nothing to do with going to law school at Boalt. At some point the bullshit exceeds the intelligence of even top-law-schools.com




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