UT Austin or University of Houston?

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ScottRiqui
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UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:08 pm

I know - it looks like a troll headline, but bear with me.

I'm beginning to consider law as a follow-on career, and I think I'd be most interested in IP law. U of H is ranked down in the 50s in the "overall" rankings, but is #8 for IP law programs.

So, are the ranking scales comparable? In other words, are the job opportunities coming out of U of H and going into IP law similar to those of someone coming out of a T10 school (in the overall rankings) and going into non-IP law?

I want to practice in Texas, so if U of H is more of a regional school than UT, that's fine. Also, cost isn't a factor since the GI Bill will cover 100% of the costs at either school.

One last point - even UT Austin will be a reach for me unless the adcomms will overlook my 20-year old UGPA in favor of my WE and excellent graduate GPA, so I'm not even considering any of the T14 schools that also have excellent IP programs, although I realize that would be the best of all possible worlds.

Thanks,
Scott

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FuManChusco
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby FuManChusco » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:14 pm

1.) What are your numbers? 2.) If you want to work in Texas, go to UT. Simple as that. It dominates the state. 3.) Specialty rankings are garbage. Don't pay attention to them.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:20 pm

The opportunities from UT are better and it's not even close.

Have you taken the LSAT yet?

UT is more stringent in regards to GPA (unfortunately they still care about GPA to an extent, even for non-trads) than some other more highly rated schools. If you can do well enough on the LSAT, Northwestern might be easier to gain an acceptance from.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:23 pm

FuManChusco wrote:3.) Specialty rankings are garbage. Don't pay attention to them.


Sort of true, sort of not. If someone were choosing between peer schools like SMU and UH at the same COA, using something like the strength of a program as a factor wouldn't be unreasonable.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:42 pm

Thanks for the replies so far. I haven't taken the LSAT yet since I'm still a few years away from retiring, but just going off of timed practice tests, it looks like ~174-177 isn't an unreasonable expectation.

My UGPA is only a 2.9 (although it's slightly higher in my major - I don't know how GPA is calculated for admissions purposes). My undergrad is a B.S. in Comp Sci & Engineering.

I also have an M.S. in Applied Physics with a 3.92 GPA.

When it comes time to apply, my undergrad will be 20 years old, my graduate degree will be five years old, I'll be 44 and coming out of a 20-year career in the military. In other words, about as non-traditional as you can get. No URM or anything like that.

I'd really like to go to school in Texas, since the GI Bill will cover 100% of everything at any school in the state because the Texas tuition/fees cap is so high. For Northwestern, the GI Bill would only cover a total of about $56k plus fees, so I'd be on the hook for almost 2/3 of the total cost.

The problem is, looking at Texas law schools, it goes from UT at #15 to SMU at #28 and then down to UH at #60 and Baylor at #64

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Stringer Bell
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:50 pm

This is strictly from my gut, but I think if you can pull off a 174+ with your background and a good ps, you are going to have a good shot at UT.

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im_blue
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby im_blue » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:05 pm

UT will be very difficult with a sub-3.0 GPA. They didn't take anyone below 3.4 on LSN last year, including many 173+ scorers (http://texas.lawschoolnumbers.com/appli ... ,8&type=jd), and the lowest they went the cycle before that was 3.0.

If you can hit 170+ you should ED to Northwestern.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:14 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:The opportunities from UT are better and it's not even close.


So that's true even for someone looking for a job in IP law?

I guess even though I still have a few years left, I need to go ahead and submit my transcripts so that LSAC can evaluate them, and take an official LSAT so I have a firmer idea of my numbers - I'm just spinning my wheels otherwise. (Also, the scores will still be less than five years old when I apply, so it won't be wasted effort if I do well.)

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ScottRiqui
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:23 pm

im_blue wrote:If you can hit 170+ you should ED to Northwestern.


So for someone wanting to practice in Texas (Dallas / Ft. Worth, specifically), is Northwestern with a total COA of ~$90k (assuming no scholarships) still a significantly better choice than SMU with a total COA of $0?

Basically, it seems that if I can't get into UT, the decisions get real hard real quick. :D

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thecilent
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby thecilent » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:25 pm

im_blue wrote:If you can hit 170+ you should ED to Northwestern.

lulz.

ScottRiqui wrote:So for someone wanting to practice in Texas (Dallas / Ft. Worth, specifically), is Northwestern with a total COA of ~$90k (assuming no scholarships) still a significantly better choice than SMU with a total COA of $0?

lulz.

ETA: I should really read every post - didn't catch the GI thingy.

ETA2: I still say lulz after seeing pat's argument
Last edited by thecilent on Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:34 pm

thecilent wrote:lulz.


Sorry, guess I'm missing the joke?

carboy67
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby carboy67 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:40 pm

smu will not be covered by gi bill. its not a state school. only ut, uofh, tech, and im not sure if baylor is

Army2Law
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby Army2Law » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:44 pm

SMU will be covered 100% if they participate in the Yellow Ribbon Program and even if they don't there's still a good chance a large portion will be covered since the max tuition payable in Texas under the GI Bill is so high. Also, I'm at UT now, OP, you should definitely go here if you get in.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:49 pm

carboy67 wrote:smu will not be covered by gi bill. its not a state school. only ut, uofh, tech, and im not sure if baylor is


You can use the Post-9/11 GI Bill at any school, public or private, although the payment rate is capped at the level of the highest public undergrad per-credit-hour rate in the state.

Fortunately, Texas has the highest cap in the country by a wide margin. Specifically, they'll pay up to $1549 per credit hour plus fees, which is more than enough to cover the full cost of any of the Texas law schools.

It's nowhere near as nice for other states, though. For Illinois, the cap is only $630 per hour plus fees, so for a ~90 hour degree, that's only about $57k in tuition that the GI Bill would cover.
Last edited by ScottRiqui on Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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patrickd139
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:49 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
thecilent wrote:lulz.


Sorry, guess I'm missing the joke?

You're going to be hard-pressed to get into NW (even with WE) with that GPA. Worth a shot, but check the numbers closely before you put all your eggs in one basket.

As for the other lulz, thinking NW is going to cost $90k total COA for 3 years is either delusional or looking at very outdated numbers. You might still be able to get two years of tuition for $90k, but I'm not even entirely sure about that.

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patrickd139
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:51 pm

As for the OP: go to UT if you can. U of H if you can't get UT and still want Houston. SMU if you can't get UT and still want Dallas. Also: [insert obligatory "don't go to Baylor" comment here]

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ScottRiqui
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:54 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
thecilent wrote:lulz.


Sorry, guess I'm missing the joke?

You're going to be hard-pressed to get into NW (even with WE) with that GPA. Worth a shot, but check the numbers closely before you put all your eggs in one basket.

As for the other lulz, thinking NW is going to cost $90k total COA for 3 years is either delusional or looking at very outdated numbers. You might still be able to get two years of tuition for $90k, but I'm not even entirely sure about that.


Looking at LSN, there appear to be at least a couple of non-URM acceptances with sub-3.0 GPAs and a high-enough LSAT. I don't know about their softs, though.

As for the Northwestern pricing, early on in the thread I pointed out that the GI Bill would cover about $56k in tuition at Northwestern, plus fees. That's where I got the $90k COA - that's the portion of the tuition that the GI Bill wouldn't cover.

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im_blue
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby im_blue » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:55 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
carboy67 wrote:smu will not be covered by gi bill. its not a state school. only ut, uofh, tech, and im not sure if baylor is


You can use the Post-9/11 GI Bill at any school, public or private, although the payment rate is capped at the level of the highest public undergrad per-credit-hour rate in the state.

Fortunately, Texas has the highest cap in the country by a wide margin. Specifically, they'll pay up to $1549 per credit hour plus fees, which is more than enough to cover the full cost of any of the Texas law schools.

It's nowhere near as nice for other states, though. For Illinois, the cap is only $630 per hour plus fees, so for a ~90 hour degree, that's only about $57k in tuition that the GI Bill would cover.

Are you eligible for Yellow Ribbon? According to this link, they pay $10k/year for NU Law.

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FuManChusco
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby FuManChusco » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:56 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
thecilent wrote:lulz.


Sorry, guess I'm missing the joke?

You're going to be hard-pressed to get into NW (even with WE) with that GPA. Worth a shot, but check the numbers closely before you put all your eggs in one basket.

As for the other lulz, thinking NW is going to cost $90k total COA for 3 years is either delusional or looking at very outdated numbers. You might still be able to get two years of tuition for $90k, but I'm not even entirely sure about that.


wrong. NW loves sub 3s and WE. With a 173+ and an ED contract, I would say he's in. Also, there's this thing called the GI bill that has been discussed in this thread the entire time. Hence the low COA for NW.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:03 pm

im_blue wrote:Are you eligible for Yellow Ribbon? According to this link, they pay $10k/year for NU Law.


I saw that, but they only have 10 slots, and I don't know a) if that's 10 slots per entering class or 10 slots spread out among all enrolled students, or b) how many vets apply to to NU, so I didn't want to count on the Yellow Ribbon Program money in my calculations.

That would be awesome if I were able to use that though, since the $10k per year is just the school's contribution and would be matched by another $10k per year from the VA.

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patrickd139
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:08 pm

FuManChusco wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
thecilent wrote:lulz.


Sorry, guess I'm missing the joke?

You're going to be hard-pressed to get into NW (even with WE) with that GPA. Worth a shot, but check the numbers closely before you put all your eggs in one basket.

As for the other lulz, thinking NW is going to cost $90k total COA for 3 years is either delusional or looking at very outdated numbers. You might still be able to get two years of tuition for $90k, but I'm not even entirely sure about that.


wrong. NW loves sub 3s and WE. With a 173+ and an ED contract, I would say he's in. Also, there's this thing called the GI bill that has been discussed in this thread the entire time. Hence the low COA for NW.

Cost of living in Chicago is going to vary, but I think a conservative estimate is probably around $20k per year. We're already up to $60k.
NW tuition is just shy of $50k per year. GI Yellow Ribbon pays $10k per year according to the link right above. According to OP, GI bill pays $18k per year. That's $66k in tuition
We'll leave books out of the equation for the sake of argument.
That still works out to $66k for tuition plus $60k for cost of living. $126k>$90k by more than 33%.

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patrickd139
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:09 pm

FuManChusco wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
thecilent wrote:lulz.


Sorry, guess I'm missing the joke?

You're going to be hard-pressed to get into NW (even with WE) with that GPA. Worth a shot, but check the numbers closely before you put all your eggs in one basket.

As for the other lulz, thinking NW is going to cost $90k total COA for 3 years is either delusional or looking at very outdated numbers. You might still be able to get two years of tuition for $90k, but I'm not even entirely sure about that.


wrong. NW loves sub 3s and WE. With a 173+ and an ED contract, I would say he's in. Also, there's this thing called the GI bill that has been discussed in this thread the entire time. Hence the low COA for NW.

Also, I think my post said it's "worth a shot." Not "there's no chance s/he gets into NW."
Edit: also, I hardly think a school with a 3.7 median GPA "loves sub 3s." Again, not trying to start a fight, just don't want to lead OP on without backing up the facts.

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FuManChusco
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby FuManChusco » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:16 pm

I wasn't adding COL so you're right. OP isn't counting on yellow ribbon so tuition is almost 90k on the dot with the gi bill. I thought that was the number he was talking about. I still disagree that he would be hard pressed to get in though.

Edit for comment above: Well no one loves sub 3s. My point is NW is the one school in the t14 that normally overlooks gpa for 172+ and WE. Many TLSers have gotten in under these circumstances so I think his chances are actually pretty good. An ED contract is necessary though.

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JazzOne
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby JazzOne » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:21 pm

OP said he's not URM. Given that fact, I think UT is out. UT's numbers are moving up, and they seem to have pretty hard GPA floor.

Also, UT is somewhat of a regional school. I just wanted to point that out because OP called UH "regional" in comparison to UT. While that comparison is accurate, it would be a mistake to think everything is rosy at UT. Normally, I would advise against UH, but OP has some financing options that most people don't have. Still, I'd rank the Texas schools like this:

UT: Go if you get in, but you won't get in.
SMU: Probably your best shot.
UH, Baylor: I wouldn't go to either, but I'm on the fence given your GI benefits.
Texas Tech, STCL: Don't bother.
Last edited by JazzOne on Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: UT Austin or University of Houston?

Postby ScottRiqui » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:25 pm

patrickd139 wrote:Cost of living in Chicago is going to vary, but I think a conservative estimate is probably around $20k per year. We're already up to $60k.
NW tuition is just shy of $50k per year. GI Yellow Ribbon pays $10k per year according to the link right above. According to OP, GI bill pays $18k per year. That's $66k in tuition
We'll leave books out of the equation for the sake of argument.
That still works out to $66k for tuition plus $60k for cost of living. $126k>$90k by more than 33%.


I wasn't getting into the housing prices, but for NU, the GI Bill would also pay a little over $15k per year as a housing allowance, so you can knock $45k off of that $126k, which gets us back down to about $80k.

Also, if I got into one of the Yellow Ribbon slots, that's $20k/year rather than $10k, since the VA would match the school's contribution.

Anyway, my numbers are admittedly rough, but I was just using them to bring up the point that any out-of-state school is going to require a chunk of financing compared to going to any Texas school essentially for free.
Last edited by ScottRiqui on Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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