UM vs St Thomas vs WM ---> Cost factors

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Hesiod
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Re: UM vs St Thomas vs WM ---> Cost factors

Postby Hesiod » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:18 am

People with worse numbers than you (including myself) got scholarships out of Minnesota last year.

dougroberts
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Re: UM vs St Thomas vs WM ---> Cost factors

Postby dougroberts » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:37 am

Informative wrote:William Mitchell was in the 4th tier last year, and maybe the year before. This is the first time they have been ranked higher than St. T in a long time.


This is very false. UST has never been higher than T3 in its 5 years or whatever of existence. WM has been as low as T4 and last few years in T3. This is the first year as a T2, where UST has not ever been.

In MN, UMN is best but it is a theory-based school where you will graduate with little useful skill. Granted, law school teaches you little, but in talking wtih biglaw lawyers in the Twin Cities, they are often reluctant to hire from UMN and even U-WI because of their curriculum. I think WM is i bit better in this regards, but lacks the brand name that gets UMN folks hired.

During this last OCI process (hiring for 2L summer positions), about top 20% of UMN got positions whereas top 10% WM got big law positions, fyi (I know you are not interested in this). I read last week in MN Lawyer newspaper that Briggs (a large firm here) hired like 5 new associates: 3 WM, 1 UMN, and 1 out-of-state school or something like that. Just an example, but something to consider.

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chrisbru
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Re: UM vs St Thomas vs WM ---> Cost factors

Postby chrisbru » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:39 am

WM was 3rd tier last year... And I haven't found any 3rd tier "rankings" per-say to go off of. But I'm 100% positive WM has always been ranked higher and held in higher regard for employment than St. Thomas. That being said, I kinda like the trend UST has been showing...

Informative
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Re: UM vs St Thomas vs WM ---> Cost factors

Postby Informative » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:44 am

In 2008, William Mitchell was ranked in the 4th tier. Not last year. I think they were in the third tier in 2009.

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Tanicius
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Re: UM vs St Thomas vs WM ---> Cost factors

Postby Tanicius » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:52 am

WM, UMN, and STU's rankings are irrelevant in this discussion. There is no algorithm one could use to computer the benefit of UMN being so many places ahead of WM, or with WM ahead of STU. What matters are the alumni connections and employment stats. It's just a fact WM has the bigger alumni network and better employment stats than STU. That might not be the case forever, but it's the case now and it will likely be the case for at least another decade. It's also a fact that the UMN has the best employment stats of all the law schools in Minnesota. If you want to do anything corporate, the UMN gives you the best shot, period. After accepting that fact, money comes into the equation. If you're looking at a huge scholarship at WM and almost no money at UMN with out-of-state tuition costs, then WM is probably the answer, especially in this economy.

Informative
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Re: UM vs St Thomas vs WM ---> Cost factors

Postby Informative » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:55 am

I agree and I definitely think you should take the money. I would steer clear of any debt if you are coming out of WM or St. T. Neither are going to guarantee anything special. Good schools, but you should hedge your bet by reducing your debt load. Here is a good article on the subject. The comments reflect my sentiment on taking out loans (also a couple of lawyers posted their summer associate classes at the big Minnesota firms):
http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/20 ... s-to-know/

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chrisbru
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Re: UM vs St Thomas vs WM ---> Cost factors

Postby chrisbru » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:11 pm

Informative wrote:I agree and I definitely think you should take the money. I would steer clear of any debt if you are coming out of WM or St. T. Neither are going to guarantee anything special. Good schools, but you should hedge your bet by reducing your debt load. Here is a good article on the subject. The comments reflect my sentiment on taking out loans (also a couple of lawyers posted their summer associate classes at the big Minnesota firms):
http://minnlawyer.com/minnlawyerblog/20 ... s-to-know/


Thanks for this link, it's definitely information to look at. I'm going to have to take COL loans out no matter where I go to school, but I definitely want to reduce my debt load as much as I can. U of M is still where I'd ultimately LIKE to go, but I'm not willing to take on an extra $60k in loans to do it.

Informative
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Re: UM vs St Thomas vs WM ---> Cost factors

Postby Informative » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:05 pm

In this market, I would try to keep my debt down as much as possible. What is the point of graduating with a JD if you can't afford to enjoy the work. The biggest scam right now is the student loan industry. Keep your debt down and you'll be very happy when you graduate.

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chrisbru
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Re: UM vs St Thomas vs WM ---> Cost factors

Postby chrisbru » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:46 pm

I received my scholarship offer from St. Thomas in the mail yesterday... Full-tuition for three years, and I only have to stay "in good academic standing" to keep it. That sounds like a good deal to me... Although if I go there I'll bust my ass to stay top 10% to stay competitive.

How likely is midlaw (I'm hoping to make $75k or more when I graduate) from St. Thomas? Or will I pretty much be making $50k in PI? It would be hard for me to justify taking out $50k in COL loans just to make roughly the same as I make now... Although I would be much happier than in my current job.

Informative
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Re: UM vs St Thomas vs WM ---> Cost factors

Postby Informative » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:07 pm

Midlaw is going to be the same from UST or WM. You will want to be in the top 1/3rd to be competitive, but better to have a better chance at it.

At either school, if you don't end up in the top 1/3rd, you are going to have a hard time b/ of the market. This is why you should keep your debt down.




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