JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

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s0ph1e2007
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JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby s0ph1e2007 » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:57 pm

I feel like I heard at one school that the business school would accept the LSAT for admissions and you didn't need the GMAT?

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby bdubs » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:09 am

NYU

"The GMAT is not required for JD/MBA applicants who can demonstrate strong quantitative ability and
preparedness for the mathematical rigors of the MBA program through their prior coursework,
professional experience, and/or certifications. If you are not certain that your background demonstrates
the level of quantitative ability required to be successful in the MBA program, you are strongly
encouraged to take the GMAT by the application deadline."

What kind of WE do you have?

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BrianGriffintheDog
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby BrianGriffintheDog » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:19 am

I'd like to hear more about this. Are there any other law schools that don't require GMAT?

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby bdubs » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:39 am

BrianGriffintheDog wrote:I'd like to hear more about this. Are there any other law schools that don't require GMAT?


In the T14? No.

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2014
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby 2014 » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:27 pm

If you can do well enough on the LSAT to get into the t14, I would take the GMAT to strengthen your application. While they test different information, many of the test taking skills that are necessary to do well on the LSAT are also necessary to do well on the GMAT. I imagine that the majority of people scoring 170+ have the mental capacity to get 700+ on the GMAT with a bit of prep.

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby bdubs » Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:59 pm

2014 wrote:If you can do well enough on the LSAT to get into the t14, I would take the GMAT to strengthen your application. While they test different information, many of the test taking skills that are necessary to do well on the LSAT are also necessary to do well on the GMAT. I imagine that the majority of people scoring 170+ have the mental capacity to get 700+ on the GMAT with a bit of prep.


+1 - I scored above 170 on the LSAT and above 700 on the GMAT. I think that many people who fall into the 170 plus scorers for LSAT will be able to ace the GMAT verbal with some studying (sentence correction is weird...even for people who, unlike me, have an extensive English background). However, the math section requires both studying and some mathematical intuition. I would guess there are a subset of 170s scorers who would struggle to do well on the math section. This might be a problem because many of the top MBA programs look closely at not only the composite score, but also the component scores (math, verbal).

I would give similar advice to 2014 and say you should consider taking the GMAT. Most people in the 170s will probably have no problems getting into the 700s with a bit of studying.

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:50 pm

Apply to law schools now, study for and take the GMAT before school starts, then apply to the MBA program wherever you end up going to law school.

I took both of 'em last year and scored in pretty much the exact same percentile. Got into the JD program and applying to the MBA this year. I am not sure why but there are at least 2 JD/MBAs here that I know would have had marginal chances, if any at all, of getting into B school if they had applied normally. Both are direct from undergrad with no work experience and both applied after they were already in law school. I think you get a little something extra for being in law school when applying to the MBA program.

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby bdubs » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:53 pm

Hattori Hanzo wrote:Apply to law schools now, study for and take the GMAT before school starts, then apply to the MBA program wherever you end up going to law school.

I took both of 'em last year and scored in pretty much the exact same percentile. Got into the JD program and applying to the MBA this year. I am not sure why but there are at least 2 JD/MBAs here that I know would have had marginal chances, if any at all, of getting into B school if they had applied normally. Both are direct from undergrad with no work experience and both applied after they were already in law school. I think you get a little something extra for being in law school when applying to the MBA program.


Which school? I heard schools with weaker business schools give some preference while schools with stronger don't care one way or the other.

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:24 pm

bdubs wrote:
Hattori Hanzo wrote:Apply to law schools now, study for and take the GMAT before school starts, then apply to the MBA program wherever you end up going to law school.

I took both of 'em last year and scored in pretty much the exact same percentile. Got into the JD program and applying to the MBA this year. I am not sure why but there are at least 2 JD/MBAs here that I know would have had marginal chances, if any at all, of getting into B school if they had applied normally. Both are direct from undergrad with no work experience and both applied after they were already in law school. I think you get a little something extra for being in law school when applying to the MBA program.


Which school? I heard schools with weaker business schools give some preference while schools with stronger don't care one way or the other.


HLS and HBS. I think they're almost equal.

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby bdubs » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:28 pm

Hattori Hanzo wrote:HLS and HBS. I think they're almost equal.


Quite the combo. I have heard that Wharton gives very little if any bump to Penn LS students (i.e. definitely no straight throughs). Yale on the other hand probably begs the law students to enroll in the business school :-)

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:29 pm

If you can rock the LSAT, I would imagine you could do really, really well on GMAT considering the GMAT is a shitload easier. However, there is a quantitative section (but it's pretty easy IMO), so I guess if you are the typical law student and can't do basic math, then you're screwed.

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:31 pm

bdubs wrote:
Hattori Hanzo wrote:HLS and HBS. I think they're almost equal.


Quite the combo. I have heard that Wharton gives very little if any bump to Penn LS students (i.e. definitely no straight throughs). Yale on the other hand probably begs the law students to enroll in the business school :-)


I might be wrong but I find it a little odd that these people got into HBS one with zero work experience and one with half a year (the other half she was unemployed). There is also a 3rd one in my section who got in with zero WE but she's URM and I think she has some respectable ECs.

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whitman
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby whitman » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:05 pm

Can anyone who is considering a JD/MBA, is currently studying for one, or already has one explain why you think the combination is worth getting? Some have said that earning an MBA hurts your law job prospects and a JD doesn't help your business prospects. Anyone have any thoughts on this? What kind of careers are you guys looking at? Is there any room for focusing in something like, say, environmental law, while pursuing a JD/MBA?

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:39 pm

whitman wrote:Can anyone who is considering a JD/MBA, is currently studying for one, or already has one explain why you think the combination is worth getting?


The MBA is good for transactional practice. The benefit of getting an MBA for transactional practice is to expose you to accounting and finance classes (primarily) and to get a better idea of business generally since you will be representing a corporate client, in the middle of a large transaction, at a large law firm. When you move up to partner, you'll literally be on the other side of the table with your client negotiating terms of the agreements, etc. So being able to read things like the accounting statements and financials and actually being able to make sense out of them is necessary. But in all honesty, if you do things right in law school, the MBA has no real value. I say this because at top schools you have 1 year of required classes and then that's basically it. Most top schools will let you spend a semester at their b-school as well. Furthermore, your t14 is likely to have course offerings in accounting and finance in the law school as well. So if you do things right, you should be able to take all the accounting and finance courses you need at both the b-school and at the law school. The extra year is really just a waste IMO if you plan thing properly. On the other hand, if you are the typical law student wanting to practice in transactional and only take corporations and not very many other business related courses, then getting an MBA after law school might make sense. It's not all that uncommon to see attorneys get MBAs after law school either. But the JD/MBA combo is unnecessary.

With all that said, if you can get into both programs at Harvard or Stanford, I really can't see how it could possibly hurt you. Actually, I can't see how any degree you get from one of those 2 schools could be a negative.

Quadrangulum
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby Quadrangulum » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:48 pm

I'm pretty sure several top business schools now accept the GRE as well.

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA-- no GMAT?

Postby bdubs » Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:01 pm

whitman wrote:Can anyone who is considering a JD/MBA, is currently studying for one, or already has one explain why you think the combination is worth getting? Some have said that earning an MBA hurts your law job prospects and a JD doesn't help your business prospects. Anyone have any thoughts on this? What kind of careers are you guys looking at? Is there any room for focusing in something like, say, environmental law, while pursuing a JD/MBA?


I am a JD/MBA applicant at several schools this cycle. I have some unique reasons of my own for wanting to do a JD/MBA that stem from my experience in antitrust economics, but I think there are some general reasons why a JD/MBA is a positive.

1) An MBA (from a top school) is a credential that biglaw clients will respect and understand. It lets you establish a quick connection and gain some credibility.
2) The MBA gives you a huge network of both fellow students and past alumni in industry who will be helpful contacts later in your career.
3) Some firms really like JD/MBAs. Particularly well known is Goodwin Proctor, which gives a JD/MBA bonus and actively recruits dual degree students.

There are also some academic reasons if you have limited experience in business subjects, or if you want to expand your repertoire in a particular area.




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