Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

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supertoots
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby supertoots » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:23 pm

I stopped putting Rutgers-Newark on my résumé 15 years ago and am embarrassed to tell people I went there. At one point I was grateful for the opportunities I mistakenly thought the school had given me. Further, tuition was comparatively low and the school never promised me anything other than a JD. Then, reality kicked me in the head. A few years out I was told by someone in a hiring position that they weren’t interested in JDs, and the light finally came on: My degree is as valuable as a felony conviction.

Even if Rutgers-Newark offered a good education — and it does not — you are dealing with a horrible market. Why don't you boosters grab an old yearbook, say from 10 or 20 years ago, and start looking up graduates? Head for LinkedIn and then the NJ attorney index at --LinkRemoved--. Note how many of them have the status "Retired." Things have only gone downhill since my era and there is less and less opportunity for graduates of middling schools.

The comments about the CSO hit home; I could have written the same thing many years ago.

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JCFindley
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby JCFindley » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:38 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:
JCFindley wrote:Probably going to suck for you as well pretty soon as the clients will eventually find these places and skip the over priced douchebag middlemen like yourself.


Isn't the middleman required, lest there be unauthorized practice? This strikes me as a bit different than the service Legal Zoom offers.


Sometimes. It really depends on what the client needs. The net and quick access to legal documents has already cut into the need for many of the services that were once the exclusive domain of attorneys.

get it to x
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby get it to x » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:54 pm

supertoots wrote:I stopped putting Rutgers-Newark on my résumé 15 years ago and am embarrassed to tell people I went there. At one point I was grateful for the opportunities I mistakenly thought the school had given me. Further, tuition was comparatively low and the school never promised me anything other than a JD. Then, reality kicked me in the head. A few years out I was told by someone in a hiring position that they weren’t interested in JDs, and the light finally came on: My degree is as valuable as a felony conviction.

Even if Rutgers-Newark offered a good education — and it does not — you are dealing with a horrible market. Why don't you boosters grab an old yearbook, say from 10 or 20 years ago, and start looking up graduates? Head for LinkedIn and then the NJ attorney index at --LinkRemoved--. Note how many of them have the status "Retired." Things have only gone downhill since my era and there is less and less opportunity for graduates of middling schools.

The comments about the CSO hit home; I could have written the same thing many years ago.


Do the current RU students a favor and stop moaning about how horrible the school is on a public forum. It's hard enough out there for them already with the current dynamics of the legal market that they don't need to have their school unnecessarily dragged through the mud. I honestly don't care that you're embarrassed to tell other people where you attended law school. That's your issue - not the school's which has produced, and continues to produce, fine attorneys. I'll stand by the quality of a Rutgers education any day. I think it's shameful that the administration has done less to make graduates more competitive in the NJ/NY marketplaces (bump the curve up to a B+ and start advertising that most students do good work and are hungry would be helpful starting points). It's a good place with decent professors and cheap tuition. It's not a golden ticket to a brand new life just like 95% of all law schools.

sadsituationJD
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby sadsituationJD » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:47 am

I stopped putting Rutgers-Newark on my résumé 15 years ago and am embarrassed to tell people I went there. At one point I was grateful for the opportunities I mistakenly thought the school had given me. Further, tuition was comparatively low and the school never promised me anything other than a JD. Then, reality kicked me in the head. A few years out I was told by someone in a hiring position that they weren’t interested in JDs, and the light finally came on: My degree is as valuable as a felony conviction.

Even if Rutgers-Newark offered a good education — and it does not — you are dealing with a horrible market. Why don't you boosters grab an old yearbook, say from 10 or 20 years ago, and start looking up graduates? Head for LinkedIn and then the NJ attorney index at --LinkRemoved--. Note how many of them have the status "Retired." Things have only gone downhill since my era and there is less and less opportunity for graduates of middling schools.

The comments about the CSO hit home; I could have written the same thing many years ago.


LOL it is insane that the state of NJ wastes even five cents on any grants or subsidies for this TTToilet operation.

The bottom line is that there is ZERO demand for entry-level attorneys in NJ right now, and barely any demand for even seasoned, experienced attorneys. Salaries at most small firms are terrible to downright embarrassing, and will only get worse as more and more revenue sources dry up.

I'm only 7 years out and of my close friends from law school, I'm the only one still practicing in any way (and only part-time at that). Like yourself, most already exited since:

a.) there are almost no jobs,

b.) the few jobs available pay absolute garbage for long hours/miserable work,

c.) being a solo/shingle hanger is too stressful & not worth the hassle for what you'll earn,

d.) the market is simply flooded beyond all reason.

I always leave the JD off when applying for other jobs and such. It is a HUGE red flag that most employers don't like. A JD today has "loser" written all over it: someone not terribly bright, poor at math/science, terrible at writing/communicating, and a sort of "washout" who doesn't know what they really want to do.

If you want a 3 year grad degree that actually offers an ROI, look into physical therapy school. Starting salaries are double what most shitlaw offices are paying, and it's not hard at all to clear 6 figures in a couple years. Contrast that with law: most attorneys NEVER earn six figures, or anything even close to it.

timbs4339
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:22 pm

get it to x wrote:
supertoots wrote:I stopped putting Rutgers-Newark on my résumé 15 years ago and am embarrassed to tell people I went there. At one point I was grateful for the opportunities I mistakenly thought the school had given me. Further, tuition was comparatively low and the school never promised me anything other than a JD. Then, reality kicked me in the head. A few years out I was told by someone in a hiring position that they weren’t interested in JDs, and the light finally came on: My degree is as valuable as a felony conviction.

Even if Rutgers-Newark offered a good education — and it does not — you are dealing with a horrible market. Why don't you boosters grab an old yearbook, say from 10 or 20 years ago, and start looking up graduates? Head for LinkedIn and then the NJ attorney index at --LinkRemoved--. Note how many of them have the status "Retired." Things have only gone downhill since my era and there is less and less opportunity for graduates of middling schools.

The comments about the CSO hit home; I could have written the same thing many years ago.


Do the current RU students a favor and stop moaning about how horrible the school is on a public forum. It's hard enough out there for them already with the current dynamics of the legal market that they don't need to have their school unnecessarily dragged through the mud. I honestly don't care that you're embarrassed to tell other people where you attended law school. That's your issue - not the school's which has produced, and continues to produce, fine attorneys. I'll stand by the quality of a Rutgers education any day. I think it's shameful that the administration has done less to make graduates more competitive in the NJ/NY marketplaces (bump the curve up to a B+ and start advertising that most students do good work and are hungry would be helpful starting points). It's a good place with decent professors and cheap tuition. It's not a golden ticket to a brand new life just like 95% of all law schools.


Unless people start getting the word out there shit is never going to change. I've bashed my school on this site, other sites, and in print media. Damn the reputation- this entire profession is going to be screwed if we don't reduce the number of law schools and number of JDs stat. Bumping the curve so your students can better compete for crumbs is just going to leave RUN or SH students unemployed and it keeps putting off the final reckoning. And employers know what the score is in Jersey, CSOs telling them that their grads are "like, really smart" isn't going to change hiring patterns.

supertoots
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby supertoots » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:35 pm

get it to x wrote:Do the current RU students a favor and stop moaning about how horrible the school is on a public forum. It's hard enough out there for them already with the current dynamics of the legal market that they don't need to have their school unnecessarily dragged through the mud.
Cry me a river. Do you think comments from an anonymous poster change anything?

I have zero sympathy for current students. They have the benefit of the internet and relentless media coverage. We had nothing. Further, in NJ, as I'm sure is the case elsewhere, many positions are obtained through connections and no one cares much what I think about RN. Trust me.

Back to the matter at hand. If you choose to go to school in a crowded market surrounded by dozens of more prestigious schools and similarly-ranked peers, that's your problem. Rest assured you're trodding a path taken by countless RN and SHU (and Brooklyn, RC, Carbozo, St Johns, Temple, etc.) students before you. The footsteps end at the edge of the cliff. One of the things that pissed me off the most was RN's emphasis on what TLS terms "PI," and then finding PI employers were as status conscious as everyone else.

Anyhow, good luck. You'll need it.

get it to x
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby get it to x » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:24 pm

supertoots wrote:
get it to x wrote:Do the current RU students a favor and stop moaning about how horrible the school is on a public forum. It's hard enough out there for them already with the current dynamics of the legal market that they don't need to have their school unnecessarily dragged through the mud.
Cry me a river. Do you think comments from an anonymous poster change anything?

I have zero sympathy for current students. They have the benefit of the internet and relentless media coverage. We had nothing. Further, in NJ, as I'm sure is the case elsewhere, many positions are obtained through connections and no one cares much what I think about RN. Trust me.

Back to the matter at hand. If you choose to go to school in a crowded market surrounded by dozens of more prestigious schools and similarly-ranked peers, that's your problem. Rest assured you're trodding a path taken by countless RN and SHU (and Brooklyn, RC, Carbozo, St Johns, Temple, etc.) students before you. The footsteps end at the edge of the cliff. One of the things that pissed me off the most was RN's emphasis on what TLS terms "PI," and then finding PI employers were as status conscious as everyone else.


Anyhow, good luck. You'll need it.



Hey man, I clawed my way into finding good firm work on my own without RU's help. I try to help out where I can and I check these boards when my litigation cycle is quiet to give the school a fair shake at what it does and doesn't do well to help others make an informed decision. If it helps, that's great. If it doesn't, it doesn't impact my bottom line. But what I can't stand are calls for the school to close or that it's completely worthless. That's a disservice to every single hard working Rutgers student who is trying to find their way in this economy.

Skump
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby Skump » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:00 pm

"Rutgers Newark: ... ... ... Well, hey, we're not Rutgers Camden!"

It's a testament to the tragicomic condition of American legal education that even this T1 bottom scraper has a little sibling in Camden. It's sort of like Twins - in a world where Danny DeVito had been recast in Schwartzenager's role to act alongside Marty Feldman.

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PaulKriske
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby PaulKriske » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:03 pm

jenesaislaw wrote:
Isn't the middleman required, lest there be unauthorized practice? This strikes me as a bit different than the service Legal Zoom offers.





who is your tar? i swear i saw him driving behind me yesterday, beret and all.

sadsituationJD
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby sadsituationJD » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:47 pm

That's a disservice to every single hard working Rutgers student who is trying to find their way in this economy.


If they were truly "trying to find their way," they wouldn't be in law school. They'd have the common sense and reasoning ability to determine that an RN degree has no market value, and that NJ is the #3 most saturated legal market in the US, right behind NY and CA:

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... a_deficit/

It is literally true that almost every current and prospective RN student would be better off in a blue-collar trade or some other industry besides law. It is also literally true that RN and RC (along with "peer" toilet Seton Hall) should all simply be closed down, since there is essentially zero demand for their graduates.

It's even funnier that with so many nice towns in NJ (Hoboken, the JC waterfront, the shore, etc) all 3 of the NJ TTToilet lawschools are located in bombed-out, filthy, dangerous ghettos (newark and camden) where no rational person woulld voluntarily spend any time. This is because these TTToilets get juicy tax breaks and such by locating in these hellholes, which means even more profits for the admins and profs. Do you think they care if you get murdered/raped/mugged on your way home from studying?

RN is in an especially filthy and dangerous part of Newark. I did an internship back in the early 2000s at the Essex County Courthouse on MLK, and two of my co-interns (both female) were carjacked and pistol-whipped just a few feet from RN's front door! You're literally taking your physical as well as financial life in your hands by attending this also-ran diploma mill.

It's also hilarious that Chris Christie, a Seton Hall grad, tries to funnel money and such to SH and leaves R-N high and dry. When he was US Attorney he would often make corporate deferred prosecution agreements contiginent on large donations to Seton Hall.

Much as a moron as he is (which is evidenced by his SH degree rotlf), he is correct that the state should do everything possible to ignore or actively de-fund RN. I betcha this toilet bowl is consigned to the sewer of legal history within 10 years.

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dingbat
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby dingbat » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:34 pm

sadsituationJD wrote:
It's even funnier that with so many nice towns in NJ (Hoboken, the JC waterfront, the shore, etc) all 3 of the NJ TTToilet lawschools are located in bombed-out, filthy, dangerous ghettos (newark and camden) where no rational person woulld voluntarily spend any time. This is because these TTToilets get juicy tax breaks and such by locating in these hellholes, which means even more profits for the admins and profs.

Now this is just silly
Newark was once a great city, which is why RuN and SH are located there.
The fact that the city turned to utter crap 200 and 100 years after the schools were founded, respectively, is a different matter.

presidentk1
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby presidentk1 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:38 pm

dingbat wrote:
sadsituationJD wrote:
It's even funnier that with so many nice towns in NJ (Hoboken, the JC waterfront, the shore, etc) all 3 of the NJ TTToilet lawschools are located in bombed-out, filthy, dangerous ghettos (newark and camden) where no rational person woulld voluntarily spend any time. This is because these TTToilets get juicy tax breaks and such by locating in these hellholes, which means even more profits for the admins and profs.

Now this is just silly
Newark was once a great city, which is why RuN and SH are located there.
The fact that the city turned to utter crap 200 and 100 years after the schools were founded, respectively, is a different matter.


this would make sense if it wasnt for the fact that neither law school have been in newark for 100 years, let alone 200

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dingbat
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby dingbat » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:48 pm

I stand corrected, RuN Law started in 1908 (Rutgers itself is from the 1700s)
Seton Hall has been around since 1856 and added a law school in 1951

In both cases well before the city of Newark became the festering cesspool it is today

Edit: but it's good to see the NJ law schools are trying to maintain the quality of the cities they're in - that's solidarity for ya

HeavenWood
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:53 pm

dingbat wrote:I stand corrected, RuN Law started in 1908 (Rutgers itself is from the 1700s)
Seton Hall has been around since 1856 and added a law school in 1951

In both cases well before the city of Newark became the festering cesspool it is today

Edit: but it's good to see the NJ law schools are trying to maintain the quality of the cities they're in - that's solidarity for ya

Camden was a nice city when RU-C was established as well. Most of these industrial-heavy Mid-Atlantic/Northeastern cities didn't really start decaying until the 1950s.

supertoots
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby supertoots » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:44 am

sadsituationJD wrote: RN is in an especially filthy and dangerous part of Newark. I did an internship back in the early 2000s at the Essex County Courthouse on MLK, and two of my co-interns (both female) were carjacked and pistol-whipped just a few feet from RN's front door!

I attended when it was still at 15 Washington St (note the gentleman sitting on the steps), which had windows that opened. The class once overheard a felony being committed; the professor thought it was humorous and gestured toward his wallet. Another fond Newark memory was driving to class and passing a flaming, fully-engulfed Cadillac near the school. I can still feel the heat.

Much as a moron as he is (which is evidenced by his SH degree rotlf), he is correct that the state should do everything possible to ignore or actively de-fund RN. I betcha this toilet bowl is consigned to the sewer of legal history within 10 years.

I didn't know Christy had plans for RN, as opposed to RC. It would be interesting if it closed and the state set up a capitation agreement with SHU.

keg411
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby keg411 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:02 pm

^ IMO, they should keep RU-N and it's 25k tuition (and combine it was RU-C and put it in New Brunswick) and close SHU and it's abortion of $50k+ tuition. But Chri$ Chri$stie would never do that. Can't wait until we kick that fat bastard out of office and kill his presidential hopes with it.

NJ only needs one law school and it should be one combined Rutgers in New Brunswick (and they should lower tuition to $15k similar to the UF's and UGA's of the world), and not the abortion that is $eTTTon Hall. Of course, that's a pipe dream :(.

sadsituationJD
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby sadsituationJD » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:55 pm

Market forces will close Seton Hall Law before the decade is out. Can't imagine that anyone right now is ponying up 50 K sticker for this embarrassing TTT dumpster/diploma mill. In fact, hard to imagine anyone going to SH period unless on fully scholly. And even then, the schools extremely weak placement makes it pretty much just a waste of 3 years. Why go to lawskool to end up in a traffic court "clerskship" followed by perhaps a shitlaw job at some DWI or insurance defense mill for 35 K a year?

Question is, how long can the school survive when pretty much the only way it can attract students is to let them attend for free or damn close to it? After all, the school is in a shitty & dangerous area, has a poor reputation, lousy faculty, and the NJ legal "market" (at least for recent grads) is all but non-existent?

I'd argue SH is in worse shape than similar TTToilets like 'Bozo and Brooklyn, since at least these places are in "hip" areas. You'll likely be unemployed or working at Starbucks after graduating these toilets too, but at least you won't have pissed away 3 lousy years in a filthy, dangerous ghetto like Newark.

supertoots
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Re: Rutgers Newark - An epic joke...

Postby supertoots » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:13 am

SHU will be around forever; the good 'ol boys need a place to send Junior and there's enough other applicants to keep it going. Not sure about either Rutgers. At some point, the state has to consider the value prospect of funding them versus disciplines whose graduates are in demand.




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