List of pass fail LRW @ T14

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bauerahl
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby bauerahl » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:46 am

stratocophic wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I would work 80% less if it was pass fail.
And this is the other argument for LRW being graded. Thank you for presenting it in a clear and concise manner; A-.


That is essentially my point as well.

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stratocophic
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby stratocophic » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:57 am

bauerahl wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I would work 80% less if it was pass fail.
And this is the other argument for LRW being graded bauerahl's argument presented in 11 words. Thank you for presenting it in a clear and concise manner; A-.


That is essentially my point as well.
Fixed!

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facetious
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby facetious » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:02 am

curryinaninstant wrote:What about CCN?


nyu is p/f and ends typically a few weeks before finals.

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vamedic03
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby vamedic03 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:16 am

I think there is an underlying point in this discussion that has gone unstated. One of the major problems for LRW, graded or ungraded, is that a fair number of students come into law school lacking basic, effective communicative (for lack of better terms) writing ability. Outside of effort as to research, I'd wager that for many of the students who write well (or perform well in LRW) don't spend any more time working on their projects. I think that one of the things that becomes apparent is that students have not learned to write effectively. Honestly, for some percentage of students, I'm not sure how much LRW can help them. Rather, what some students really need is an intensive remedial writing program.

irishman86
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby irishman86 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:01 am

stratocophic wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I would work 80% less if it was pass fail.
And this is the other argument for LRW being graded. Thank you for presenting it in a clear and concise manner; A-.


I learned far more as a judicial intern during 1L summer than I did all year in LRW. Considering you will probably learn far more during your 1L job, graded LRW seems to cause unnecessary stress during the academic year.

Although some may argue that graded LRW works as a better signal to employers about writing ability, the schools that have pass/fail LRW usually have "honors" cut-offs or at least certain prizes that differentiate good writers anyway.

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IAFG
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby IAFG » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:18 pm

stratocophic wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I would work 80% less if it was pass fail.
And this is the other argument for LRW being graded. Thank you for presenting it in a clear and concise manner; A-.

No points off for his subjunctive fail?

whymeohgodno
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:21 pm

Is there anyone that actually enjoys LRW?

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stratocophic
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby stratocophic » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:26 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:Is there anyone that actually enjoys LRW?
IMO it's not nearly as bad as people make it sound, at least not where I am. Go to class and surf the web, follow some relatively simple rules, make what you write tie up neatly into coherent points, follow the rules again because that's basically all you do, and turn stuff in on time. Other than citations I dunno what's so awful about it.

irishman86
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby irishman86 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:08 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:Is there anyone that actually enjoys LRW?


There has to be, or else people wouldn't become biglaw litigators. Still though, much, much less useful than interning at a federal courthouse.

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vanwinkle
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:12 pm

irishman86 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Is there anyone that actually enjoys LRW?

There has to be, or else people wouldn't become biglaw litigators.

Come on, people don't become litigators because they like brief writing. They do it because they want to be Tom Cruise:

Image

(Pre-Scientology/breakdown, of course.)

Kretzy
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby Kretzy » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:07 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:Is there anyone that actually enjoys LRW?


I really liked LRW. Liking the work made it easier to space out the workload, and I never felt stressed about a deadline in the class. I'd say 6-8 people out of 30 legitimately liked LRW in my section, an most others were "meh" toward it. A couple of folks really couldn't stand it, though, but they seemed to be in the minority.

Exeter
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby Exeter » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:51 pm

Mine is P/F and I could not be more happy.

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stratocophic
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby stratocophic » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:11 pm

stratocophic wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Is there anyone that actually enjoys LRW?
IMO it's not nearly as bad as people make it sound, at least not where I am. Go to class and surf the web, follow some relatively simple rules, make what you write tie up neatly into coherent points, follow the rules again because that's basically all you do, and turn stuff in on time. Other than citations I dunno what's so awful about it.
UPDATE: And then we started writing briefs instead of memos. Eff. That. Noise.

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ahduth
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby ahduth » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:29 am

facetious wrote:
curryinaninstant wrote:What about CCN?


nyu is p/f and ends typically a few weeks before finals.


Yeah, I think CLS is HP/P/F or something... either way, I remember graded LRW being a strike against them. Dunno about Chicago.

lawgod
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby lawgod » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:36 am

I thought graded LRW was kind of dumb. It sometimes seemed as though the professor was unwilling to tell us things our of fear of messing up the grades.
But how the blazes are you supposed to learn?
Seems to me you learn writing by writing multiple drafts, having them corrected, doing it over, etc.
I just felt the grades were really distracting the professor.

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Glock
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby Glock » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:35 pm

A graded writing class just makes you work harder. My class was graded and I got the top grade. That has been helping me on my resume. I love it, but I am sure that people who did not do as well hate it.

In general I support GPA and rank calculations to have a larger, rather than smaller, sample of information.

lawgod
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby lawgod » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:40 pm

Also, I think the complaints about LRW messing up your GPA come from the occurrences of people with really good grades getting a really bad LRW grade, and the opposite.

So the students with the bad LRW grades complain it must be random, and that since the regular courses are the main part of 1L, their GPA shouldn't be brought down by LRW.
And the ones with good LRW grades laugh to the bank.

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ahduth
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby ahduth » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:21 am

Glock wrote:A graded writing class just makes you work harder. My class was graded and I got the top grade. That has been helping me on my resume. I love it, but I am sure that people who did not do as well hate it.

In general I support GPA and rank calculations to have a larger, rather than smaller, sample of information.


I guess the question would be whether or not it's helping relative to applicants who attended schools lacking graded writing. I don't doubt that it helps in some degree, but I don't know that it will outweigh the firms' perception of school quality and such.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:30 am

IAFG wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I would work 80% less if it was pass fail.
And this is the other argument for LRW being graded. Thank you for presenting it in a clear and concise manner; A-.

No points off for his subjunctive fail?

Definitely points off.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: List of pass fail LRW @ T14

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:33 am

Desert Fox wrote:Northwestern's is graded, but not curved. The school claims that they've talked to firms and they want it, so they won't change it no matter how much the students hate it.

This graded-but-not-curved option seems like a reasonable set up. It does away with the brutality of the curve, yet retains the reward/punishment characteristic inherent in most grading schemes. Now if we could just get law schools to use this method for grading all of their 1L classes . . . :mrgreen:




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