Why Draw the Line at 14?

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JDin2014

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Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby JDin2014 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:54 am

I understand the arguments for what make the T14 stand out from the rest of law schools. I know they have better national mobility, they're better respected, they attract better applicants and have better job prospects, etc. But why 14? Is GULC really so much better than UCLA (for example) that one deserves to be in this coveted group, but the other isn't? Or is it simply that the T14 move around less than 15-20 in the rankings (if they do.. I don't know if they do or not)?

I just find it hard to believe that any two schools ranked "next" to each other could be divided by such a definitive/important line. And "14" seems like an unusual number to place such a line, so I'm guessing there must be some good reason of which I'm unaware.

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Ragged

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby Ragged » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:57 am

It was something along the lines that only those 14 schools were ever at the top 10 of USNWR. I'm not sure how much of that is backed by the job prospects that those schools can offer.

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Shooter

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby Shooter » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:57 am

It's my understanding that the T-14 have always been the top fourteen law schools in America. Although they switch places amongst themselves, no school (not even Georgetown, which is hanging on by a thread) has ever switched places with a school ranked 15 or lower.

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JazzOne

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby JazzOne » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:58 am

It's to keep the minorities out.

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kazu

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby kazu » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:04 am

Shooter wrote:It's my understanding that the T-14 have always been the top fourteen law schools in America. Although they switch places amongst themselves, no school (not even Georgetown, which is hanging on by a thread) has ever switched places with a school ranked 15 or lower.

This

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JG Hall

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby JG Hall » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:26 am

kazu wrote:
Shooter wrote:It's my understanding that the T-14 have always been the top fourteen law schools in America. Although they switch places amongst themselves, no school (not even Georgetown, which is hanging on by a thread) has ever switched places with a school ranked 15 or lower.

This

No.
1987:
11 UT
12 Duke
13 Georgetown
14 UCLA
15 Cornell
16 Northwestern
Ragged wrote:It was something along the lines that only those 14 schools were ever at the top 10 of USNWR.

Yes.

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drdolittle

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby drdolittle » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:27 am

JDin2014 wrote:I'm guessing there must be some good reason of which I'm unaware.


...gaming the US News ranking and inertia (near the edge of the T14, of course).

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niederbomb

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby niederbomb » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:23 am

It's T14 because if it were T15, it would have to include Texas.

The east coast elites who made up the category were not happy about the prospect of including Texas among the top law schools. :shock:

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nealric

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby nealric » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:29 pm

The reason is because everyone knows which 14 schools you are talking about. The membership of the T14 has remained static for decades. The membership of the T10, T15, and T20 have not.

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nealric

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby nealric » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:39 pm

No.
1987:
11 UT
12 Duke
13 Georgetown
14 UCLA
15 Cornell
16 Northwestern


Nobody cares what the 1987 rankings were. The T14 has been static for a long time. That's why it is the T14.

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby bk1 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:44 pm

niederbomb wrote:It's T14 because if it were T15, it would have to include Texas.

The east coast elites who made up the category were not happy about the prospect of including Texas among the top law schools. :shock:


Whatever your intentions, you are neither smart nor funny.

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby lawschoollll » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:52 pm

niederbomb wrote:It's T14 because if it were T15, it would have to include Texas.

The east coast elites who made up the category were not happy about the prospect of including Texas among the top law schools. :shock:

This is true. As a result, there are no midwestern, west coast, or southern law schools in the T14.

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quakeroats

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby quakeroats » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:54 pm

TLS: What are some “up and coming” law schools outside of the traditional Top-14?

Anyone who thinks that “top 14” demarcates a relevant category of law schools has already made a mistake! Texas and UCLA, for example, are better than Georgetown and Cornell and Duke along a variety of dimensions, and Vanderbilt and Southern California are competitive with these schools in various ways as well. There are schools that have done a good job of gaming the US News rankings, but very few of them are actually “up and coming.” (Alabama might now be an exception—their Dean has parlayed improved US News rankings into more money from the university and a better faculty.) Duke, which had the weakest faculty of any putatively top law school ten years ago, has really turned things around over the last decade. I don’t know that they’ll improve further, but they now have a genuine claim on the ‘top ten,’ and are clearly better than the 17th--place showing in the reputational survey I conducted some seven years ago. UC Irvine, under Erwin Chemerinsky, is clearly off to a very strong start. Notre Dame has long had a good market niche, but a relatively weak faculty; that’s changed in the last dozen years. University of Illinois is much stronger now than even 10 or 15 years ago. Florida State is clearly one of the very top ‘regional’ law schools these days—graduates practice regionally, but the faculty is of national distinction. Law schools change at a glacial pace is the bottom line. The top 15-18 law schools now are mostly the same as in 1970. NYU edged up a few notches (from the 10-15 range to the 5-7 range), Michigan slipped down a few notches (from the 3-5 range to the 7-10 range), but that’s about it. Perhaps worth emphasizing is that there are a number of law schools whose job placement is more regional, but whose faculties, like Florida State’s, are part of a national and international scholarly discourse: examples would include Chicago-Kent, Fordham, San Diego, George Mason, BU (though their placement is more national than some of these), maybe Cardozo, maybe Brooklyn, among others.

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northwood

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby northwood » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:26 pm

why draw the line at 14?

Why draw a line at all? Because someone always wants to create two groups( and place themselves in the better group): The haves and the have nots

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Bosque

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby Bosque » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:39 pm

lawschoollll wrote:
niederbomb wrote:It's T14 because if it were T15, it would have to include Texas.

The east coast elites who made up the category were not happy about the prospect of including Texas among the top law schools. :shock:

This is true. As a result, there are no midwestern, west coast, or southern law schools in the T14.


Image

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fugitivejammer

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby fugitivejammer » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:03 pm

lately i've been seeing a movement towards the t-13 here on TLS

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paratactical

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby paratactical » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:04 pm

fugitivejammer wrote:lately i've been seeing a movement towards the t-13 here on TLS

Pshtt. T-12 or bust.

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nealric

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby nealric » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:14 pm

lately i've been seeing a movement towards the t-13 here on TLS


By Cornell trolls.

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby weejonbu » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:15 pm

lawschoollll wrote:
niederbomb wrote:It's T14 because if it were T15, it would have to include Texas.

The east coast elites who made up the category were not happy about the prospect of including Texas among the top law schools. :shock:

This is true. As a result, there are no midwestern, west coast, or southern law schools in the T14.


Midwest: Chicago? Northwestern?

West Coast: Berkeley?

Let's get our geography straight.

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JazzOne

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby JazzOne » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:18 pm

weejonbu wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
niederbomb wrote:It's T14 because if it were T15, it would have to include Texas.

The east coast elites who made up the category were not happy about the prospect of including Texas among the top law schools. :shock:

This is true. As a result, there are no midwestern, west coast, or southern law schools in the T14.


Midwest: Chicago? Northwestern?

West Coast: Berkeley?

Let's get our geography straight.

lol

Noob

You forgot to mention Duke and highlight "southern."

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby JakeL » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:39 pm

weejonbu wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
niederbomb wrote:It's T14 because if it were T15, it would have to include Texas.

The east coast elites who made up the category were not happy about the prospect of including Texas among the top law schools. :shock:

This is true. As a result, there are no midwestern, west coast, or southern law schools in the T14.


Midwest: Chicago? Northwestern?

West Coast: Berkeley?

Let's get our geography straight.


Blatant anti-stanford trolling here.

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby weejonbu » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:45 pm

JakeL wrote:
weejonbu wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
niederbomb wrote:It's T14 because if it were T15, it would have to include Texas.

The east coast elites who made up the category were not happy about the prospect of including Texas among the top law schools. :shock:

This is true. As a result, there are no midwestern, west coast, or southern law schools in the T14.


Midwest: Chicago? Northwestern?

West Coast: Berkeley?

Let's get our geography straight.


Blatant anti-stanford trolling here.


Albeit entirely unintentional... wow, I suck at geography too... thanks for the corrections there Jazz

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JazzOne

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby JazzOne » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:47 pm

JakeL wrote:
weejonbu wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
niederbomb wrote:It's T14 because if it were T15, it would have to include Texas.

The east coast elites who made up the category were not happy about the prospect of including Texas among the top law schools. :shock:

This is true. As a result, there are no midwestern, west coast, or southern law schools in the T14.


Midwest: Chicago? Northwestern?

West Coast: Berkeley?

Let's get our geography straight.


Blatant anti-stanford trolling here.

lol

Not bad for a noob

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JazzOne

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby JazzOne » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:48 pm

weejonbu wrote:Albeit entirely unintentional... wow, I suck at geography too... thanks for the corrections there Jazz

You have to sharpen your troll senses if you want to survive on TLS.

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beachbum

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Re: Why Draw the Line at 14?

Postby beachbum » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:53 pm

If we're talking about job placement (which often seems to be the case), then T12 or T17 make much more sense ITE.

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