Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

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Blindmelon
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:48 pm

NZA wrote:Not to seem silly, but...what if you have no ties? Like, anywhere? Will a degree from Vandy get you to the Least Coast? Or is it pretty much the South? Just curious, thanks!


East Coast? DC definitely possible, NYC no problem, north of that it gets dicey.

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NZA
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby NZA » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:51 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
NZA wrote:Not to seem silly, but...what if you have no ties? Like, anywhere? Will a degree from Vandy get you to the Least Coast? Or is it pretty much the South? Just curious, thanks!


East Coast? DC definitely possible, NYC no problem, north of that it gets dicey.


Least Coast = East Coast. :P Just a joke. But thanks!

I wouldn't have even applied to Vandy but I got a waiver. I grew up in the PNW, so I hadn't even heard of this school. But maybe it would be a good choice.

I mean, if I were to get into a T-14 school like Michigan or Cornell, do you think they would be as good or better than Vandy for DC?

What about government jobs?

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread or anything, just wondering. :)

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Seally
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby Seally » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:05 pm

NZA wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
NZA wrote:Not to seem silly, but...what if you have no ties? Like, anywhere? Will a degree from Vandy get you to the Least Coast? Or is it pretty much the South? Just curious, thanks!


East Coast? DC definitely possible, NYC no problem, north of that it gets dicey.


Least Coast = East Coast. :P Just a joke. But thanks!

I wouldn't have even applied to Vandy but I got a waiver. I grew up in the PNW, so I hadn't even heard of this school. But maybe it would be a good choice.

I mean, if I were to get into a T-14 school like Michigan or Cornell, do you think they would be as good or better than Vandy for DC?

What about government jobs?

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread or anything, just wondering. :)



Yes for Cornell, maybe not for Michigan, but that's just my thought.

Government positions have always been competitive, even for T-14 Grads, get used to having good stats and start networking as soon as possible.

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AreJay711
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:10 pm

Seally wrote:
NZA wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
NZA wrote:Not to seem silly, but...what if you have no ties? Like, anywhere? Will a degree from Vandy get you to the Least Coast? Or is it pretty much the South? Just curious, thanks!


East Coast? DC definitely possible, NYC no problem, north of that it gets dicey.


Least Coast = East Coast. :P Just a joke. But thanks!

I wouldn't have even applied to Vandy but I got a waiver. I grew up in the PNW, so I hadn't even heard of this school. But maybe it would be a good choice.

I mean, if I were to get into a T-14 school like Michigan or Cornell, do you think they would be as good or better than Vandy for DC?

What about government jobs?

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread or anything, just wondering. :)



Yes for Cornell, maybe not for Michigan, but that's just my thought.

Government positions have always been competitive, even for T-14 Grads, get used to having good stats and start networking as soon as possible.


Michigan is probably better for D.C. than Vandy

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Grizz
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby Grizz » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:15 pm

General rule for DC recently seems to be to go to the best school you can get into and pray.

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RVP11
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:31 pm

rad law wrote:General rule for DC recently seems to be to go to the best school you can get into and pray.


TITCR. DC is hard from everywhere. If you won't be happy with anything other than DC BigLaw or BigGov, don't go to law school.

Also, any T12 > Vanderbilt for every legal market in the country.

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Seally
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby Seally » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:51 pm

RVP11 wrote:
rad law wrote:General rule for DC recently seems to be to go to the best school you can get into and pray.


TITCR. DC is hard from everywhere. If you won't be happy with anything other than DC BigLaw or BigGov, don't go to law school.


+1

whymeohgodno
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby whymeohgodno » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:36 pm

RVP11 wrote:
rad law wrote:General rule for DC recently seems to be to go to the best school you can get into and pray.


TITCR. DC is hard from everywhere. If you won't be happy with anything other than DC BigLaw or BigGov, don't go to law school.

Also, any T12 > Vanderbilt for every legal market in the country.


Northwestern is better than Vandy for the South?

de5igual
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby de5igual » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:48 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
rad law wrote:General rule for DC recently seems to be to go to the best school you can get into and pray.


TITCR. DC is hard from everywhere. If you won't be happy with anything other than DC BigLaw or BigGov, don't go to law school.

Also, any T12 > Vanderbilt for every legal market in the country.


Northwestern is better than Vandy for the South?


yes, if the northwestern student has strong connections to that southern legal market

however, vanderbilt > northwestern with no ties

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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby whymeohgodno » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:49 pm

f0bolous wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
rad law wrote:General rule for DC recently seems to be to go to the best school you can get into and pray.


TITCR. DC is hard from everywhere. If you won't be happy with anything other than DC BigLaw or BigGov, don't go to law school.

Also, any T12 > Vanderbilt for every legal market in the country.


Northwestern is better than Vandy for the South?


yes, if the northwestern student has strong connections to that southern legal market

however, vanderbilt > northwestern with no ties


So in general, no.

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RVP11
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby RVP11 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:18 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
So in general, no.


Most people looking to get a job in the South are probably from the South. So it's not crazy to say that, for most people, Northwestern is a better choice than Vanderbilt for getting a job in the South.

By your logic, Colorado is better than Yale for getting a job in Denver because it's better for people with no ties. That completely ignores the fact that most people gunning for Denver probably DO have ties, and that Yale is going to propel them to a much higher place in Denver than even being top 5% at Colorado.
Last edited by RVP11 on Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby whymeohgodno » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:19 pm

RVP11 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
So in general, no.


Most people looking to get a job in the South are probably from the South. So it's not crazy to say that, for most people, Northwestern is a better choice than Vanderbilt for getting a job in the South.


From the south isn't the same as having strong connections in the south.

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RVP11
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby RVP11 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:21 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
So in general, no.


Most people looking to get a job in the South are probably from the South. So it's not crazy to say that, for most people, Northwestern is a better choice than Vanderbilt for getting a job in the South.


From the south isn't the same as having strong connections in the south.


WTF are you talking about?

Aqualibrium
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:21 pm

RVP11 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
So in general, no.


Most people looking to get a job in the South are probably from the South. So it's not crazy to say that, for most people, Northwestern is a better choice than Vanderbilt for getting a job in the South.


That's the problem with trying to compare schools like this though. Why would anyone who knew they wanted to work in the South choose Northwestern over Vandy (probably with money if both of those are on the table) or Duke or hell UVA?

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AreJay711
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:23 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
So in general, no.


Most people looking to get a job in the South are probably from the South. So it's not crazy to say that, for most people, Northwestern is a better choice than Vanderbilt for getting a job in the South.


From the south isn't the same as having strong connections in the south.


What would you consider strong connections then? I'd say you always have a strong connection to your home region but you can connections can also come from other places.

@RVP11 - great post, I've never thought of it that way. The only thing is that Vandy could BUILD a connection to the South if you want to go there for another reason.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby whymeohgodno » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:25 pm

RVP11 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
So in general, no.


Most people looking to get a job in the South are probably from the South. So it's not crazy to say that, for most people, Northwestern is a better choice than Vanderbilt for getting a job in the South.

By your logic, Colorado is better than Yale for getting a job in Denver because it's better for people with no ties. That completely ignores the fact that most people gunning for Denver probably DO have ties, and that Yale is going to propel them to a much higher place in Denver than even being top 5% at Colorado.


Comparing Colorado to Yale isn't the same as comparing Northwestern to Vanderbilt. Stop making straw man comparisons.

Also you fail to realize that wanting to work somewhere and being from somewhere isn't the same as having strong CONNECTIONS. Plenty of people live somewhere and want to work there but they don't have anything that equates to strong connections. Learn the difference between regional preference and connections before you post again.

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RVP11
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby RVP11 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:30 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
So in general, no.


Most people looking to get a job in the South are probably from the South. So it's not crazy to say that, for most people, Northwestern is a better choice than Vanderbilt for getting a job in the South.


That's the problem with trying to compare schools like this though. Why would anyone who knew they wanted to work in the South choose Northwestern over Vandy (probably with money if both of those are on the table) or Duke or hell UVA?


Experience a new part of the country? I did something similar (attending a school in a region I have no desire to settle in), and I think it helped make me rare, and successful, when it came to getting a job.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:32 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
So in general, no.


Most people looking to get a job in the South are probably from the South. So it's not crazy to say that, for most people, Northwestern is a better choice than Vanderbilt for getting a job in the South.

By your logic, Colorado is better than Yale for getting a job in Denver because it's better for people with no ties. That completely ignores the fact that most people gunning for Denver probably DO have ties, and that Yale is going to propel them to a much higher place in Denver than even being top 5% at Colorado.


Comparing Colorado to Yale isn't the same as comparing Northwestern to Vanderbilt. Stop making straw man comparisons.

Also you fail to realize that wanting to work somewhere and being from somewhere isn't the same as having strong CONNECTIONS. Plenty of people live somewhere and want to work there but they don't have anything that equates to strong connections. Learn the difference between regional preference and connections before you post again.


I'll just offer a different perspective here; it's one I've stated multiple times on this site.

IMO ties are what you make of them. People on TLS try to make some hard and fast list of "what counts" as ties. I don't think there is such a thing. It's certainly true that certain factors may weigh more heavily than others, but the fact of the matter is, once you get into the room, you control employers perception of you.

I personally was able to get interviews, and offers in many different regions. At most of them, I had either never set foot there, or I had only been there once or twice. Multiple times I had employers come right out and ask why they should believe I wasn't a flight risk, many times I answered the question, and within a day or two, I got the offer. Ties are what you make of them...research the cities, talk to locals, name drop things to do and places to go. It's not that difficult.

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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:33 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
So in general, no.


Most people looking to get a job in the South are probably from the South. So it's not crazy to say that, for most people, Northwestern is a better choice than Vanderbilt for getting a job in the South.


That's the problem with trying to compare schools like this though. Why would anyone who knew they wanted to work in the South choose Northwestern over Vandy (probably with money if both of those are on the table) or Duke or hell UVA?


Experience a new part of the country? I did something similar (attending a school in a region I have no desire to settle in), and I think it helped make me rare, and successful, when it came to getting a job.


Understandable. I also agree that being "exotic" helps quite a bit in the job hunt.

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RVP11
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby RVP11 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:34 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:Also you fail to realize that wanting to work somewhere and being from somewhere isn't the same as having strong CONNECTIONS. Plenty of people live somewhere and want to work there but they don't have anything that equates to strong connections. Learn the difference between regional preference and connections before you post again.


LOL, please educate me on what "strong connections" are. I'm just a lowly law student who received callbacks and offers in several secondary markets to which I had varying degrees of ties, and I'd love to hear a 0L's take on legal hiring in secondary markets. This should be illuminating.

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RVP11
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby RVP11 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:39 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:IMO ties are what you make of them. People on TLS try to make some hard and fast list of "what counts" as ties. I don't think there is such a thing. It's certainly true that certain factors may weigh more heavily than others, but the fact of the matter is, once you get into the room, you control employers perception of you.


This is true, but there are some per se rules. If you were born and raised somewhere, it's unlikely anyone will question your commitment. If you've never been somewhere or only visited for vacation, it's unlikely anyone will take your desire to be in that city seriously. And, generally, the bigger the market, the less firms will care.

There seems to be huge variance among firms, too. At one firm I was peppered by every single person about why I wanted to be there, and was rightly dinged when they sensed my ties were weak. At another firm (in the same city) it barely came up, they seemed satisfied with my answer, and I received an offer the next week. The firms were comparable satellite offices of V50 firms.
Last edited by RVP11 on Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

krad
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby krad » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:40 pm

I'm enjoying my lurker status on this thread today. 8) It beats a slow afternoon in the office that's for sure...

Aqualibrium
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:49 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:IMO ties are what you make of them. People on TLS try to make some hard and fast list of "what counts" as ties. I don't think there is such a thing. It's certainly true that certain factors may weigh more heavily than others, but the fact of the matter is, once you get into the room, you control employers perception of you.


This is true, but there are some per se rules. If you were born and raised somewhere, it's unlikely anyone will question your commitment. If you've never been somewhere or only visited for vacation, it's unlikely anyone will take your desire to be in that city seriously.



I would generally have agreed pre-interview/oci season, but my experience really changed my thoughts on this. I had interviews with a couple of the best firms in my home state. Every single one came out and asked why they should believe I wanted to come back home. One outright told me that they liked me a lot, but that I would have many more opportunities elsewhere, and they just didn't think I would choose home over those options.

I also got callbacks/offers in places I had never been before in my life, or had only been to a couple of times (at one firm that I got an offer at, the only time I ever set foot in the city was for my callback).

I really believe that with good research, solid communication skills, and a little "creativity," you can easily sidestep any concerns about your willingness to settle in an area. I think the biggest thing is to not just research the city, but to research the firm. For most law students, it's really difficult to tell firms apart from one another. What I did was try to find the things each firm felt differentiated them from their competitors, and used them "against" the firm. Just like girls, firms like to hear you tell them about the things that make them more special than any other firm/girl. That+some well placed mentions of things to do in a city = win in almost any market imo.

Informative
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby Informative » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:24 pm

Vandy is a super-regional school, by which I mean it is better than a regional school but slightly less than national. It will give you some good opportunities by name recognition in the entire south. It may not get you a summer position at Skadden in NYC, but it can help get you into Atlanta, DC, and other major southern markets.

There are only a few schools that are superregional like this.
BC in the northeast
GW in the mid-atlantic
ND in the midwest
USC/UCLA on the west coast

These schools will be able to open a lot of doors in the larger geographic region associated with them. Their students aren't limited to market they generally feed into.

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stratocophic
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Re: Is a Vanderbilt JD regional?

Postby stratocophic » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:39 pm

Informative wrote:Vandy is a super-regional school, by which I mean it is better than a regional school but slightly less than national. It will give you some good opportunities by name recognition in the entire south. It may not get you a summer position at Skadden in NYC, but it can help get you into Atlanta, DC, and other major southern markets.

There are only a few schools that are superregional like this.
BC in the northeast
GW in the mid-atlantic
ND in the midwest
USC/UCLA on the west coast

These schools will be able to open a lot of doors in the larger geographic region associated with them. Their students aren't limited to market they generally feed into.
Oh, so Vanderbilt can help you break into DC, a notoriously difficult market while simultaneously keeping you out of NY, the easiest market to break into. No. Just... no.




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