Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

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socraticmethodman
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Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby socraticmethodman » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:08 pm

I know people would cleary say Harvard off the bat, but for what I want to do, I'm not sure. I want to work as a criminal defense attorney for the ACLU. Harvard is one of the top 3 schools in the country so it speaks for itself. Michigan is one of the best public interest schools in the country which would tie into a lot of what I want to do. Georgetown is a great public interest school as well but the location is ideal with respect to networking and places to get great experience. Obviously Michigan and Harvard have not problem with networking but I would like to hear some thoughts.

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bk1
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:09 pm

Yale

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patrickd139
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:11 pm

To which one(s) have you been accepted?

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s0ph1e2007
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby s0ph1e2007 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:12 pm

I know people won't believe this, but Michigan definitely.
It obviously depends on what you want. If you want wallstreet law, then definitely Harvard. If you're a PI person, and you want a good experience in law school then Michigan. Georgetown is significantly lower in opinion than Michigan and Harvard. Additionally their campus actually isn't connected to the undergrad campus, and a lot of people commute.

socraticmethodman
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby socraticmethodman » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:18 pm

I have not been accepted yet, but I am an aa male, 3.7 gpa, great softs, and will hopefully score a 170+ in December ( scored a 172 on pt 58).

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patrickd139
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:21 pm

socraticmethodman wrote:I have not been accepted yet, but I am an aa male, 3.7 gpa, great softs, and will hopefully score a 170+ in December ( scored a 172 on pt 58).

Take the LSAT and then come back. These predictor threads are less than useless without them.

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hipstermafia
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby hipstermafia » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:23 pm

s0ph1e2007 wrote:I know people won't believe this, but Michigan definitely.
It obviously depends on what you want. If you want wallstreet law, then definitely Harvard. If you're a PI person, and you want a good experience in law school then Michigan. Georgetown is significantly lower in opinion than Michigan and Harvard. Additionally their campus actually isn't connected to the undergrad campus, and a lot of people commute.

Not sure why this is a bad thing :)

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bk1
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:23 pm

On a serious note, Harvard.

From what people have said, prestigious PI positions are very competitive and a quick perusal of the ACLU hiring website pretty much shows that almost all positions are going to require a couple years minimum of experience. Harvard is going to set you up in the best opportunity to end up at the ACLU whether that be right after graduation or through a job somewhere else that will eventually allow you to end up there.

socraticmethodman
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby socraticmethodman » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:27 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
socraticmethodman wrote:I have not been accepted yet, but I am an aa male, 3.7 gpa, great softs, and will hopefully score a 170+ in December ( scored a 172 on pt 58).

Take the LSAT and then come back. These predictor threads are less than useless without them.


With all due respect, this post isn't for predicting if I will get in to these schools, but rather which school is better for what I want to do.

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patrickd139
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby patrickd139 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:31 pm

socraticmethodman wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
socraticmethodman wrote:I have not been accepted yet, but I am an aa male, 3.7 gpa, great softs, and will hopefully score a 170+ in December ( scored a 172 on pt 58).

Take the LSAT and then come back. These predictor threads are less than useless without them.


With all due respect, this post isn't for predicting if I will get in to these schools, but rather which school is better for what I want to do.

Also with due respect, whether one school is better for what you want to do only matters if you have been admitted to said school.

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IAFG
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby IAFG » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:32 pm

socraticmethodman wrote:I know people would cleary say Harvard off the bat, but for what I want to do, I'm not sure. I want to work as a criminal defense attorney for the ACLU. Harvard is one of the top 3 schools in the country so it speaks for itself. Michigan is one of the best public interest schools in the country which would tie into a lot of what I want to do. Georgetown is a great public interest school as well but the location is ideal with respect to networking and places to get great experience. Obviously Michigan and Harvard have not problem with networking but I would like to hear some thoughts.

the best PI school for what anyone wants to do is HYS. every time.

lawschoollll
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby lawschoollll » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:48 pm

s0ph1e2007 wrote:I know people won't believe this, but Michigan definitely.
It obviously depends on what you want. If you want wallstreet law, then definitely Harvard. If you're a PI person, and you want a good experience in law school then Michigan. Georgetown is significantly lower in opinion than Michigan and Harvard. Additionally their campus actually isn't connected to the undergrad campus, and a lot of people commute.

The extent to which you have no idea what you're talking about is truly astounding.

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s0ph1e2007
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby s0ph1e2007 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:52 pm

lawschoollll wrote:
s0ph1e2007 wrote:I know people won't believe this, but Michigan definitely.
It obviously depends on what you want. If you want wallstreet law, then definitely Harvard. If you're a PI person, and you want a good experience in law school then Michigan. Georgetown is significantly lower in opinion than Michigan and Harvard. Additionally their campus actually isn't connected to the undergrad campus, and a lot of people commute.

The extent to which you have no idea what you're talking about is truly astounding.


wow your evidence is so persuasive
my opinion has definitely been changed.

I think it's hard to contend against the fact that, in general, people enjoy their 'in law school' experience better at Michigan than Harvard...
Job prospects will be better at Harvard, but the difference is negligible if you want to work in the Midwest.
Georgetown has good D.C. placement, but Harvard owns it in NY (not that Georgetown still doesn't have good placement). Mich and GT rep in NYC is probably relatively similar (except in law firms, which will know that Mich is a bit more prestigious)


I think all that is fair.

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IAFG
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby IAFG » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:53 pm

s0ph1e2007 wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
s0ph1e2007 wrote:I know people won't believe this, but Michigan definitely.
It obviously depends on what you want. If you want wallstreet law, then definitely Harvard. If you're a PI person, and you want a good experience in law school then Michigan. Georgetown is significantly lower in opinion than Michigan and Harvard. Additionally their campus actually isn't connected to the undergrad campus, and a lot of people commute.

The extent to which you have no idea what you're talking about is truly astounding.


wow your evidence is so persuasive
my opinion has definitely been changed.

I think it's hard to contend against the fact that, in general, people enjoy their 'in law school' experience better at Michigan than Harvard...
Job prospects will be better at Harvard, but the difference is negligible if you want to work in the Midwest.
Georgetown has good D.C. placement, but Harvard owns it in NY (not that Georgetown still doesn't have good placement). Mich and GT rep in NYC is probably relatively similar (except in law firms, which will know that Mich is a bit more prestigious)


I think all that is fair.

you have no idea how competitive prestigious PI like ACLU is. even from harvard it is FAR from guaranteed.

lawschoollll
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby lawschoollll » Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:04 pm

s0ph1e2007 wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
s0ph1e2007 wrote:I know people won't believe this, but Michigan definitely.
It obviously depends on what you want. If you want wallstreet law, then definitely Harvard. If you're a PI person, and you want a good experience in law school then Michigan. Georgetown is significantly lower in opinion than Michigan and Harvard. Additionally their campus actually isn't connected to the undergrad campus, and a lot of people commute.

The extent to which you have no idea what you're talking about is truly astounding.


wow your evidence is so persuasive
my opinion has definitely been changed.

I think it's hard to contend against the fact that, in general, people enjoy their 'in law school' experience better at Michigan than Harvard...
Job prospects will be better at Harvard, but the difference is negligible if you want to work in the Midwest.
Georgetown has good D.C. placement, but Harvard owns it in NY (not that Georgetown still doesn't have good placement). Mich and GT rep in NYC is probably relatively similar (except in law firms, which will know that Mich is a bit more prestigious)


I think all that is fair.

Nah; you're just guessing, and not particularly well. I have consistently seen you post ignorant schtick like this. If you're actually arguing for Michigan over Harvard, ITE, you're probably flame. If not, then you have absolutely zero idea what you're talking about, and I don't really feel the need to expound on the notion that H>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>M for *anything*, not just PI.

LOL, why don't you ask a Michigan c/o 2010 or 2011 whether UM has similar job prospects to Harvard in the midwest?

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oshberg28
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby oshberg28 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:48 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
socraticmethodman wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
socraticmethodman wrote:I have not been accepted yet, but I am an aa male, 3.7 gpa, great softs, and will hopefully score a 170+ in December ( scored a 172 on pt 58).

Take the LSAT and then come back. These predictor threads are less than useless without them.


With all due respect, this post isn't for predicting if I will get in to these schools, but rather which school is better for what I want to do.

Also with due respect, whether one school is better for what you want to do only matters if you have been admitted to said school.


(sarcasm) You're right. Who on earth would plan ahead to learn more about schools and their relationship with career outlooks? Silly kids. (sarcasm)

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FuManChusco
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby FuManChusco » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:56 pm

If you don't know that the obvious answer is Harvard, then you're not getting a 170 on your LSAT. Useless thread is useless.

nyk3
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby nyk3 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:00 pm

Georgetown's placement is awful everywhere. Have fun competing with a million person class for less jobs than a regular-sized T14 class.

H>>>>>>>>M>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GULC.

Next question.

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bk1
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby bk1 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:01 pm

nyk3 wrote:Have fun competing with a million person class


Palpable irony is palpable.

r6_philly
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby r6_philly » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:03 pm

IAFG wrote:you have no idea how competitive prestigious PI like ACLU is. even from harvard it is FAR from guaranteed.


Even the run of the mill community legal aid is packed with over 50% Harvard grads. I can't imagine how competitive ACLU is. It's probably like going to Harvard for law school, only you are not selected based solely on your numbers.

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thecilent
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby thecilent » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:05 pm

Hysterical thread is hysterical.

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AreJay711
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:12 pm

nyk3 wrote:Georgetown's placement is awful everywhere. Have fun competing with a million person class for less jobs than a regular-sized T14 class.

H>>>>>>>>M>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GULC.

Next question.


(Stealing the thread for a second) - Serious question. Is M really that much better than GULC? I know it is referred to as GeorgeTTTown but is that serious or a joke? I'm not a candidate for Harvard so ignore that it is obviously better than both.

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FuManChusco
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby FuManChusco » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:16 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
nyk3 wrote:Georgetown's placement is awful everywhere. Have fun competing with a million person class for less jobs than a regular-sized T14 class.

H>>>>>>>>M>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GULC.

Next question.


(Stealing the thread for a second) - Serious question. Is M really that much better than GULC? I know it is referred to as GeorgeTTTown but is that serious or a joke? I'm not a candidate for Harvard so ignore that it is obviously better than both.


Well it's definitely better to begin with. Add the fact that the DC market is getting raped by an elephant and the fact that GTown shits out 1,000,000 JDs a year and yeah, Michigan ends up looking a lot better. This is coming from someone who wishes he could get into GULC.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:51 pm

AreJay711 wrote:(Stealing the thread for a second) - Serious question. Is M really that much better than GULC? I know it is referred to as GeorgeTTTown but is that serious or a joke? I'm not a candidate for Harvard so ignore that it is obviously better than both.

To try to answer seriously:

1) GULC is not the best choice for DC firms. Firms love diversity of education, in part to maintain positive ties with all the law schools. (Law schools started getting pissy at firms that came, interviewed, and then declined to hire anyone from their school during the peak of the recession. In some cases there were firms banned from OCI for doing this, or at least threats of them doing so. It was crazy, but it illustrates the point: Good relations with law schools matter for firms, and they can maintain that by taking a little from all of them.) At GULC you're competing against 600 classmates, and firms are making sure they're saving spots for other top schools, and especially doing so since those other schools are more prestigious than GULC is. And there are kids from every T14 above GULC trying to get into DC. Everybody wants to work in DC.

So there's two advantages for Michigan: It's considered more prestigious which means its students are regarded a little more highly, and (because of smaller class size and more Michigan students trying for NYC or Chicago or elsewhere) you're not competing with as many of your own classmates for the same jobs there as a GULC student is.

Plus, you really shouldn't choose a law school right now with the intention of going to DC anyway, at least not without backup options. That's because DC is a small market that's hard to get into. So, think about your backup options:

2) GULC is not the best choice for NYC firms. NYC is a huge market with a much bigger hiring volume than in DC, making it easier to get into generally. But here, Michigan would win also. The MVP tier of schools does place better in NYC than GULC, and by that I mean firms go deeper into the class at MVP than they do at GULC. Maybe a firm takes anyone in the top 1/2 at MVP but only top 1/3 at GULC. I'd rather be at Michigan than GULC in that case.

3) GULC is not the best choice for secondary markets. There's no such thing as a best choice here, other than to just go to the best-ranked school you can and have ties to that market already. Of course, if you have those ties, you'll be more impressive to lawyers in your secondary market if you have a Mich degree than if you have a GULC degree. That's how prestige works.

4) GULC is not the best choice for public interest. Public interest work is all about networking and connections and prestige, and like I said, everybody wants to work in DC. I'm at HLS and I'm going to be interning in DC over winter break to make connections there, and I'm doing it through other HLS grads that are there. Yes, being in DC gives some advantages, but that can get drowned out for a lot of the "prestigious" PI jobs anyway. You want ACLU? Trust me, there's someone ahead of you. You want DOJ? H/Y/S kids want that too. Not to get you to lose all hope, but the stronger your school's prestige/alumni network, the stronger your chances of getting into solid PI.

And on top of that, many top PI employers don't typically take kids fresh out of law school. Law firms make gobs of money and can afford to take the time to slowly train someone who's just graduated and has no real-world legal experience, but PI orgs don't have that kind of luxury. If they have the money to hire you then they need to put you to work on day one, and that means they greatly prefer having people with experience. What usually ends up happening is that they hire folks who went to law firms for a few years and got trained there and then left and went to do PI.

But sorting out who to hire there is difficult too, so who do they hire? One, they hire the people who went to the better law school. Two, if they worked for a top law firm, they hire people from the firm they used to work for. (For example, there's a V10 firm that's based in DC and has placed an awful lot of former associates into the DOJ, SEC, FTC, and USAO offices in DC and SDNY. That's a strong firm alumni network to tap into, and they actually brag about it as an option for associates who work there.) How do you get into a top law firm that might have those kind of connections for you? By going to the best possible school.

And finally, three, if there's no direct connection to firms, they still might hire the people who went to the most prestigious law firms (e.g., a V20 associate instead of a V100 associate), since the more prestigious firm is probably better-known and has a stronger reputation, and they know more people who worked at that firm already, etc. And how do you get into a better law firm? One way is to go to the best possible school. See above re: DC and NYC.

Oh, and by the way, PI orgs also do give a damn about your commitment to PI, and that means doing a lot of pro bono work while you're in law school to show you care about doing that kind of work. GULC tries to claim a win here by saying it offers the most clinics of any law school. That'll certainly make it easier to find pro bono work in the field you're most interested in, but all of the T14 have respectable clinical programs now, and you can always set up pro bono opportunities on your own if what you really want is to do PI work. And Michigan + self-starting pro bono work will certainly look better than GULC + clinic work at GULC.

Long story short... Yes, Michigan is better than GULC.

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s0ph1e2007
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Re: Harvard, Michigan, or Georgetown?

Postby s0ph1e2007 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:00 pm

lawschoollll wrote:Nah; you're just guessing, and not particularly well. I have consistently seen you post ignorant schtick like this. If you're actually arguing for Michigan over Harvard, ITE, you're probably flame. If not, then you have absolutely zero idea what you're talking about, and I don't really feel the need to expound on the notion that H>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>M for *anything*, not just PI.

LOL, why don't you ask a Michigan c/o 2010 or 2011 whether UM has similar job prospects to Harvard in the midwest?


You have anger problems lol

I'm simply saying if you want to work in the Midwest, you can get a similar job from michigan as from harvard.
I made no claim about the bottom of the class getting the same job from Harvard as from Michigan.
You give me a below average Harvard student and law review at Michigan, and the Mich kid is getting the job in the Midwest.

No, I'm not guessing. Regional markets still exist. Detroit draws a ridiculous number of people into good firms from Wayne State. It may sound weird to you, but the school is in Detroit and a lot of the partners are Wayne State Law alumns. More so now they're Michigan alumns. This still is a factor.

Additionally, I maintain that people at Harvard in general SEEM to enjoy their time in LS less then Michigan people.




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