American University

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androstan
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Re: American University

Postby androstan » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:32 pm

bigkahuna2020 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:Considering IP is a pretty uniquely placed subspecialty...and GWU is known as a great IP school

I would look at GWU over Gtown because IP itself is kindof a closed field within the field


Barring a substantial scholarship offer, I would NOT look at GWU over Gtown.


Not trying to be a dick, but do you know anyone in IP/Patents? The market for IP law is HUGE, and schools have "IP cred"---even a school like Seton Hall which in most cases is a crap school basically owns the entire state's IP market, and so grads taking the patent bar from Seton Hall tend to be flooded with good offers.

Does anyone even read the OP in this forum?

All they see is (not t14--->low lsat--->retake) without ever looking at what the OP is LOOKING for


Thanks.

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Blindmelon
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Re: American University

Postby Blindmelon » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:30 pm

bigkahuna2020 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:Considering IP is a pretty uniquely placed subspecialty...and GWU is known as a great IP school

I would look at GWU over Gtown because IP itself is kindof a closed field within the field


Barring a substantial scholarship offer, I would NOT look at GWU over Gtown.


Not trying to be a dick, but do you know anyone in IP/Patents? The market for IP law is HUGE, and schools have "IP cred"---even a school like Seton Hall which in most cases is a crap school basically owns the entire state's IP market, and so grads taking the patent bar from Seton Hall tend to be flooded with good offers.

Does anyone even read the OP in this forum?

All they see is (not t14--->low lsat--->retake) without ever looking at what the OP is LOOKING for


Worst advice ever. There are IP people at BU that I know aren't totally fail-outs that don't have jobs lined up - and BU has much more "IP cred" or whatever the hell that means than AU or SH. Any bigfirm position is competitive, and AU is not a very competitive (for placement) school.

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androstan
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Re: American University

Postby androstan » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:03 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:Considering IP is a pretty uniquely placed subspecialty...and GWU is known as a great IP school

I would look at GWU over Gtown because IP itself is kindof a closed field within the field


Barring a substantial scholarship offer, I would NOT look at GWU over Gtown.


Not trying to be a dick, but do you know anyone in IP/Patents? The market for IP law is HUGE, and schools have "IP cred"---even a school like Seton Hall which in most cases is a crap school basically owns the entire state's IP market, and so grads taking the patent bar from Seton Hall tend to be flooded with good offers.

Does anyone even read the OP in this forum?

All they see is (not t14--->low lsat--->retake) without ever looking at what the OP is LOOKING for


Worst advice ever. There are IP people at BU that I know aren't totally fail-outs that don't have jobs lined up - and BU has much more "IP cred" or whatever the hell that means than AU or SH. Any bigfirm position is competitive, and AU is not a very competitive (for placement) school.



Thanks to you, too.

I hear both sides of the story. Patent Bar people at Seton getting "flooded with good offers" sounds like hyperbole to me... but wtf do I know? I don't know what to believe because I hear tons of conflicting opinions everywhere.

I think my best bet is to go to the best place I can get into in the DC area, go PT, and work at the USPTO while I'm there.

Black-Blue
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Re: American University

Postby Black-Blue » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:34 pm

Worst advice ever. There are IP people at BU that I know aren't totally fail-outs that don't have jobs lined up - and BU has much more "IP cred" or whatever the hell that means than AU or SH. Any bigfirm position is competitive, and AU is not a very competitive (for placement) school.

BU does not have more IP cred than AU. Maybe it does in terms of IP scholarly research (which is essentially irrelevant to patent practice). Although the DC market sucks, DC has the largest patent prosecution market, and the most positions available.

ran12
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Re: American University

Postby ran12 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:36 pm

Black-Blue wrote:
Worst advice ever. There are IP people at BU that I know aren't totally fail-outs that don't have jobs lined up - and BU has much more "IP cred" or whatever the hell that means than AU or SH. Any bigfirm position is competitive, and AU is not a very competitive (for placement) school.

BU does not have more IP cred than AU. Maybe it does in terms of IP scholarly research (which is essentially irrelevant to patent practice). Although the DC market sucks, DC has the largest patent prosecution market, and the most positions available.


Regardless of AU's IP rep, you're better off going to Gtown or GW, get good grades, and do well in OCI.

whymeohgodno
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Re: American University

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:01 am

I hear GW has good IP cred whatever that may be.

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Blindmelon
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Re: American University

Postby Blindmelon » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:28 am

Black-Blue wrote:
Worst advice ever. There are IP people at BU that I know aren't totally fail-outs that don't have jobs lined up - and BU has much more "IP cred" or whatever the hell that means than AU or SH. Any bigfirm position is competitive, and AU is not a very competitive (for placement) school.

BU does not have more IP cred than AU. Maybe it does in terms of IP scholarly research (which is essentially irrelevant to patent practice). Although the DC market sucks, DC has the largest patent prosecution market, and the most positions available.


::facepalm:: AU is behind UVA, Gtown, GW, and on par-with GMU. Not to mention all other T14 students that want to go to DC. Doing IP makes things easier in terms of getting a job, but it doesn't magically make you 100% employable.

Black-Blue
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Re: American University

Postby Black-Blue » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:44 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Black-Blue wrote:
Worst advice ever. There are IP people at BU that I know aren't totally fail-outs that don't have jobs lined up - and BU has much more "IP cred" or whatever the hell that means than AU or SH. Any bigfirm position is competitive, and AU is not a very competitive (for placement) school.

BU does not have more IP cred than AU. Maybe it does in terms of IP scholarly research (which is essentially irrelevant to patent practice). Although the DC market sucks, DC has the largest patent prosecution market, and the most positions available.


::facepalm:: AU is behind UVA, Gtown, GW, and on par-with GMU. Not to mention all other T14 students that want to go to DC. Doing IP makes things easier in terms of getting a job, but it doesn't magically make you 100% employable.

When did I write anything about T14 or GW? You should obviously go to T14, GUCL or GWU over AU. When did I ever say otherwise? I'm just saying that you shouldn't obviously go to BU over AU.

While DC schools don't have home turf advantage for biglaw and bigger IP boutique, the same is not true for small and mid-size boutique firms. Keep in mind that IP is more built around boutique practice than other areas, and these boutiques pay more than normal small firms. Secondly, school rank matters less for IP.

ran12
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Re: American University

Postby ran12 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:50 pm

If IP is the goal, don't go to school based on IP rank. Go to the best one you can and finish at near the top of your class. That'll open IP doors more than anything.

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omninode
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Re: American University

Postby omninode » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:00 pm

If OP is willing/able to wait another year (whether to retake the LSAT is up to you, but you'll have plenty of time), I would suggest EDing to Georgetown next Fall. If that doesn't work out, you can still reapply to AU or whatever else you want to do. That's my 2 cents.

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androstan
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Re: American University

Postby androstan » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:16 pm

omninode wrote:If OP is willing/able to wait another year (whether to retake the LSAT is up to you, but you'll have plenty of time), I would suggest EDing to Georgetown next Fall. If that doesn't work out, you can still reapply to AU or whatever else you want to do. That's my 2 cents.


I'm not able to wait a year due to coordinating this with my wife's clinical pharmacy career. However, I am retaking in December, generally break 170 on my practice tests, and have already submitted an ED app to GULC. However, I'm not getting my hopes up, I know it's a long shot. My GPA is 2.87. I'm not sure they'd take me with a 180.

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androstan
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Re: American University

Postby androstan » Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:29 pm

American's 2008 graduates seem to have fared better than GMU's:

--LinkRemoved--

--LinkRemoved--

AU had more graduates reporting and higher incomes reported.

83947368
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Re: American University

Postby 83947368 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:18 pm

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Last edited by 83947368 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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androstan
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Re: American University

Postby androstan » Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:56 am

Adm.Doppleganger wrote:As a TLS reader I am shocked by those American figures. Not saying they're great but they're not as bad as I would have thought.


Yeah, I think American places above its USNWR rank. I'll be satisfied with an income closer to 120. 30% of AU's 2008 graduates were known to be making 120+ . Hard to extrapolate to the half of the class that didn't report. I'm sure there are some "biglaw" grads that tossed the report request in the trash.

Here are the 2009 stats:

http://www.wcl.american.edu/career/documents/AmericanUniversityWCL2009StudentStats.pdf?rd=1

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Blindmelon
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Re: American University

Postby Blindmelon » Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:22 pm

Black-Blue wrote:When did I write anything about T14 or GW? You should obviously go to T14, GUCL or GWU over AU. When did I ever say otherwise? I'm just saying that you shouldn't obviously go to BU over AU.

While DC schools don't have home turf advantage for biglaw and bigger IP boutique, the same is not true for small and mid-size boutique firms. Keep in mind that IP is more built around boutique practice than other areas, and these boutiques pay more than normal small firms. Secondly, school rank matters less for IP.


First off, the guy wanting to go to American wants to do PI. OP is thinking GW/Gtown for IP - totally different. For pure job prospects, if $ were equal, it would be absolutely ridiculous to take AU over BU unless you really wanted to work in DC (or be unemployed, possibly in DC).

AU gets overblown on these boards. Its ridiculously expensive, gives little scholarship, and places well behind other significantly better schools in the same market. Its just not a great idea....

83947368
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Re: American University

Postby 83947368 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:58 pm

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Last edited by 83947368 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ran12
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Re: American University

Postby ran12 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:17 pm

Adm.Doppleganger wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:AU gets overblown on these boards. Its ridiculously expensive, gives little scholarship, and places well behind other significantly better schools in the same market. Its just not a great idea....


Edit.

Yeah true that but I think for people who don't have the option of going to those better schools it places pretty well. I know, I know, they shouldn't go to law school then. But I mean I may be missing something but 30% earning six digit figures doesn't sound soo bad. Also obvi worse ITE.

Don't want to defend AU too much esp given the price tag I just thought with all the doom and gloom on these boards it would be worse.


If you can't get into a better school than AU based on rankings, go to a lower ranked school and finish near the top of the class. Even Tier 2 schools have good alumni networks and OCI. AU is considered a bitch in DC. No one really respects it. Not worth the money and you're not going to get the real DC experience there.

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Blindmelon
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Re: American University

Postby Blindmelon » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:00 pm

ran12 wrote:
Adm.Doppleganger wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:AU gets overblown on these boards. Its ridiculously expensive, gives little scholarship, and places well behind other significantly better schools in the same market. Its just not a great idea....


Edit.

Yeah true that but I think for people who don't have the option of going to those better schools it places pretty well. I know, I know, they shouldn't go to law school then. But I mean I may be missing something but 30% earning six digit figures doesn't sound soo bad. Also obvi worse ITE.

Don't want to defend AU too much esp given the price tag I just thought with all the doom and gloom on these boards it would be worse.


Theres also GMU thats a ton cheaper....
If you can't get into a better school than AU based on rankings, go to a lower ranked school and finish near the top of the class. Even Tier 2 schools have good alumni networks and OCI. AU is considered a bitch in DC. No one really respects it. Not worth the money and you're not going to get the real DC experience there.

83947368
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Re: American University

Postby 83947368 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:05 pm

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Last edited by 83947368 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ran12
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Re: American University

Postby ran12 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:12 pm

Adm.Doppleganger wrote:So a part of American's unattractiveness for you stems from its prestige in its market? Is it really that bad? I'd have to take your word for it. I totally get the price tag though but you're saying some low ranked schools have better prestige in their markets?

Which school would you recommend over AU? One that would give you more scholly or one that's better positioned in its market? I'm just really curious because a family friend of mine went to AU in the late 90s and has been trying to get me to apply.


Edit: Got it, GMU. What are feelings on W&L or W&M over AU? Any?


W&L and WM have pretty good reps and are really nice places to go to school. GM is better than AU regardless of stats from the past b/c it's a riser, close to the real DC (downtown, cap hill), and is more or less a steal. All 3 are better than AU for various reasons. I can't give you a specific school ranked lower than AU that would be better b/c it all depends on where exactly you want to practice but in general the regional ones that are well positioned in their markets seem to give pretty good schollies b/c they want to keep attracting better students than their regional peers.

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things fall apart
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Re: American University

Postby things fall apart » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:31 am

ran12 wrote:
Adm.Doppleganger wrote:So a part of American's unattractiveness for you stems from its prestige in its market? Is it really that bad? I'd have to take your word for it. I totally get the price tag though but you're saying some low ranked schools have better prestige in their markets?

Which school would you recommend over AU? One that would give you more scholly or one that's better positioned in its market? I'm just really curious because a family friend of mine went to AU in the late 90s and has been trying to get me to apply.


Edit: Got it, GMU. What are feelings on W&L or W&M over AU? Any?


W&L and WM have pretty good reps and are really nice places to go to school. GM is better than AU regardless of stats from the past b/c it's a riser, close to the real DC (downtown, cap hill), and is more or less a steal. All 3 are better than AU for various reasons. I can't give you a specific school ranked lower than AU that would be better b/c it all depends on where exactly you want to practice but in general the regional ones that are well positioned in their markets seem to give pretty good schollies b/c they want to keep attracting better students than their regional peers.



I always find it astounding that people act like a "riser" means anything. Guys this isnt horse racing, employers who are 15-30 years out of school could give a **** if a school moved 4 places up in rankings over the past year. This isnt the stock market where you can buy low and sell high(go to a riser at a cheaper price).

You guys are delusional to think even 5% of employers have any concept of these insane minutia details you boil matricultion to law school at. These are people and the real world, not fantasy football where its as simple as crunching some ranking numbers and x,y,z happens.

What really matters is the cost. I worked for a guy in Chicago who went to Dayton Law School, came back to Chicago and owned one of the top civil rights law firms in downtown Chicago by his early 40s(one guy I know but this is more substantive than your riser/faller theories). By the time these schools "rise" it won't matter because after your first job, your school means jack **** (unless maybe you run for office and even then look at the John Boehners of the world).

That said, cost is what matters and employment prospects. Sheesh.

savagecheater
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Re: American University

Postby savagecheater » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:15 pm

That said, cost is what matters and employment prospects.


Thus, don't go to AU.

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androstan
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Re: American University

Postby androstan » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:32 pm

savagecheater wrote:
That said, cost is what matters and employment prospects.


Thus, don't go to AU.


Because it costs you $12,000 more.




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