Chicago: Kent, DePaul, John Marshall and Loyola Forum

[trollhunter2]

According to the ABA, 80 percent of Kent graduates in 2011 landed a Full-time job, and 22 percent of the class landing a job with a firm with 11 associates or more.

22% placed in firms of 11 or more? You do realize that is absolutely, positively atrocious?

Only if you assume that all 22% placed in firms of ONLY 11-20, which it does not.

I'm not making that assumption. It's awful. For a school that costs 200k+, that is truly horrendous.

Also, that's from c/o 2010. Class of 2011 is almost certainly far worse.

No my good sir, that data is for 2011.

PLACEMENT SUMMARY
Chicago, IL 60661
Website : http://www.kentlaw.edu
Phone : 312-906-5000
ILLINOIS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY - 2011
565 West Adams Street
See:
http://placementsummary.abaquestionnair ... eport.aspx

This was merely a typo

[Ludo!]

No my good sir, that data is from 2011.

PLACEMENT SUMMARY
Chicago, IL 60661
Website : http://www.kentlaw.edu
Phone : 312-906-5000
ILLINOIS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY - 2011
565 West Adams Street
See:
http://placementsummary.abaquestionnair ... eport.aspx

The data is from 2011 because it's based on employment 9 months after graduation for the Class of 2010

[Tiago Splitter]

The data is from 2010. Report year is 2011.

You can't possibly think that a 22% chance to land in a firm of more than 10 attorneys is worth 150K or more in debt.

[flem]

No my good sir, that data is from 2011.

PLACEMENT SUMMARY
Chicago, IL 60661
Website : http://www.kentlaw.edu
Phone : 312-906-5000
ILLINOIS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY - 2011
565 West Adams Street
See:
http://placementsummary.abaquestionnair ... eport.aspx

The data is from 2011 because it's based on employment 9 months after graduation for the Class of 2010

lol this

[trollhunter2]

No my good sir, that data is from 2011.

PLACEMENT SUMMARY
Chicago, IL 60661
Website : http://www.kentlaw.edu
Phone : 312-906-5000
ILLINOIS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY - 2011
565 West Adams Street
See:
http://placementsummary.abaquestionnair ... eport.aspx

The data is from 2011 because it's based on employment 9 months after graduation for the Class of 2010

Hey D-Bag, I know the difference. Why are you posting articles for entertainment purposes only?

[trollhunter2]

No my good sir, that data is from 2011.

PLACEMENT SUMMARY
Chicago, IL 60661
Website : http://www.kentlaw.edu
Phone : 312-906-5000
ILLINOIS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY - 2011
565 West Adams Street
See:
http://placementsummary.abaquestionnair ... eport.aspx

The data is from 2011 because it's based on employment 9 months after graduation for the Class of 2010

lol this

If that's the case, aren't you supposed to be working right now?

[Ludo!]

That data is from the class of 2010

No my good sir, that's 2011.

Actually it's class of 2010

Hey D-Bag, I know the difference.

[trollhunter2]

No, that employment stat was the sumation of LT numbers from the 11 to +500 column in an excel spreadsheet.

So you're pointing out they had shit biglaw placement as a defense?

And I am not defending any such school. Actually, I am just citing numbers. I am sorry the school isn't in the top 14. It's mathematically impossible for everybody to go to a top school. Kent is far from the bottom, that's all I am saying.

The employment data outside of the T25 looks a lot more like the TTTT schools than T14 schools bruh. Of course not everyone can go to a top school, but you don't have to pay 200K for a chance to be one of 22 people to pay off that toxic debt you didn't have to incur in the first place from a bottom feeder in a saturated, highly competitive market.

PS: U of Iowa places the same number of "kids" into 500+ big law (15). Food for thought.

Iowa is a T30 school in name only.

How clumsy of me, sorry that Iowa is a T-30 and not a T-25, well look at some others chum. Emory only placed 20% of its graduates in your coveted big law. Your counter argument is myopic. It assumes that the ONLY way you can pay off your loans is to land a Big Law job immediately following graduation. You can't possible believe this, do you?

[trollhunter2]

That data is from the class of 2010

No my good sir, that's 2011.

Actually it's class of 2010

Hey D-Bag, I know the difference.

You're missing the part where I acknowledged a typo, way to prove nothing.

Besides, back to the topic at hand. Why would you presume that the data would be worse for 2011 or from 2012? What statistical evidence supports this supposition? Answer that and you’ll have actually posted a true answer besides the following:

1. Retake the LSAT
2. Don’t go to LS
...in your entire TLS career!

[Ludo!]

Uh yeah fixing that typo didn't really clarify anything. If you knew that the data was for the Class of 2010 then why were you disagreeing with Romo?

[romothesavior]

Let's break these numbers down...

Of the 216 people employed full-time, 7 are solos, 55 are in firms of 2-10, and 17 are in firms of 11-25. 47 are in "business and industry." 18 are in “academia,” so who knows what that means. Of your 80%, we just accounted for 67% of the class. A lot of these 2-10 firm folks are probably students who grouped up and hung a shingle. These “business and industry” jobs are typically crappy non-law jobs that don’t require a JD, and if I recall correctly, it also includes doc review.

I’ll concede that some of these jobs I just counted might be okay (like a solid small firm or a consulting gig or something), but we basically just counted up 50-60% of your employed FT grads who have shitty jobs, many of which don’t even require a JD. And this is before we’ve even touched the government and PI numbers.

Awesome for a school that costs over $200,000 to attend.

[Davidbentley]

Uh yeah fixing that typo didn't really clarify anything. If you knew that the data was for the Class of 2010 then why were you disagreeing with Romo?

And we have a winner.

[flem]

How clumsy of me, sorry that Iowa is a T-30 and not a T-25, well look at some others chum. Emory only placed 20% of its graduates in your coveted big law. Your counter argument is myopic. It assumes that the ONLY way you can pay off your loans is to land a Big Law job immediately following graduation. You can't possible believe this, do you?

Well how else are you gonna pay down 150-200K in loans in a timely fashion, herp derpington?

[romothesavior]

Someone can check my numbers if they want since it is hard to work in that Google doc, but suffice it to say that 80% employed number shields just how bad things are at Kent.

[flem]

and if I recall correctly, it also includes doc review.

It does, since doc review is through a temp agency

[trollhunter2]

How clumsy of me, sorry that Iowa is a T-30 and not a T-25, well look at some others chum. Emory only placed 20% of its graduates in your coveted big law. Your counter argument is myopic. It assumes that the ONLY way you can pay off your loans is to land a Big Law job immediately following graduation. You can't possible believe this, do you?

Well how else are you gonna pay down 150-200K in loans in a timely fashion, herp derpington?

Well, the median annual wage of lawyers was $112760 in May 2010 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Legal/Lawyers.htm

Probably with some of that

Oh FYI, there’s a 10% forecasted increase in the legal industry. I guess that wouldn’t matter since everything is going to change by next year.

[trollhunter2]

and if I recall correctly, it also includes doc review.

It does, since doc review is through a temp agency

Which is classified as Long Term work?

[trollhunter2]

Uh yeah fixing that typo didn't really clarify anything. If you knew that the data was for the Class of 2010 then why were you disagreeing with Romo?

No, I was disagreeing with the assertion that the data will take a turn for the worse come next year.

[flem]

How clumsy of me, sorry that Iowa is a T-30 and not a T-25, well look at some others chum. Emory only placed 20% of its graduates in your coveted big law. Your counter argument is myopic. It assumes that the ONLY way you can pay off your loans is to land a Big Law job immediately following graduation. You can't possible believe this, do you?

Well how else are you gonna pay down 150-200K in loans in a timely fashion, herp derpington?

Well, the median annual wage of lawyers was $112760 in May 2010 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Legal/Lawyers.htm

Probably with some of that

Oh FYI, there’s a 10% forecasted increase in the legal industry. I guess that wouldn’t matter since everything is going to change by next year.

You're right bro. Salaries at the 160K end as well as market paying salaries of 100K+ in secondary markets, plus underreporting at the lower end, couldn't be skewing the median at all.

Try this one instead, keeping in mind that the 40-60K hump is larger in reality due to underreporting.

Which is classified as Long Term work?

It's a catch-all category, but I'm not sure. You could feasibly permanently work for a temp agency. The agency employs you, not the temp job that you're doing.

[romothesavior]

Let's break these numbers down...

Of the 216 people employed full-time, 7 are solos, 55 are in firms of 2-10, and 17 are in firms of 11-25. 47 are in "business and industry." 18 are in “academia,” so who knows what that means. Of your 80%, we just accounted for 67% of the class. A lot of these 2-10 firm folks are probably students who grouped up and hung a shingle. These “business and industry” jobs are typically crappy non-law jobs that don’t require a JD, and if I recall correctly, it also includes doc review.

I’ll concede that some of these jobs I just counted might be okay (like a solid small firm or a consulting gig or something), but we basically just counted up 50-60% of your employed FT grads who have shitty jobs, many of which don’t even require a JD. And this is before we’ve even touched the government and PI numbers.

Awesome for a school that costs over $200,000 to attend.

Response Talbert?

Also, response to your crap about this being class of 2011?

[trollhunter2]

Someone can check my numbers if they want since it is hard to work in that Google doc, but suffice it to say that 80% employed number shields just how bad things are at Kent.

If you click "download Complete Placement Data" here http://placementsummary.abaquestionnair ... eport.aspx, you can get the whole spread sheet.

[Ludo!]

Uh yeah fixing that typo didn't really clarify anything. If you knew that the data was for the Class of 2010 then why were you disagreeing with Romo?

No, I was disagreeing with the assertion that the data will take a turn for the worse come next year.

Oh ok cool. That's even stupider than I originally thought.

[Davidbentley]

Uh yeah fixing that typo didn't really clarify anything. If you knew that the data was for the Class of 2010 then why were you disagreeing with Romo?

No, I was disagreeing with the assertion that the data will take a turn for the worse come next year.

Oh ok cool. That's even stupider than I originally thought.

Victory Lap.

[Ludo!]

Besides, back to the topic at hand. Why would you presume that the data would be worse for 2011 or from 2012? What statistical evidence supports this supposition? Answer that and you’ll have actually posted a true answer besides the following:

1. Retake the LSAT
2. Don’t go to LS
...in your entire TLS career!

Just saw this edit.

The Class of 2011 data is going to be worse because they did OCI in 2009. Class of 2010 did OCI before the economy collapsed and biglaw hiring was already done. That class got fucked in other ways - no offers, deferrals, Lathams - but those aren't necessarily reflected in the data.

Class of 2011 did OCI in 2009 when class sizes were drastically cut by firms and those numbers are going to be abysmal.

[bjsesq]

This talbert kid is really firing on all cylinders.