t-14 and BigLaw

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
lawyerwannabe
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:39 pm

t-14 and BigLaw

Postby lawyerwannabe » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:51 pm

I have seen a lot of opinions on here but I cannot find a lot of hard evidence. Mainly, I would like to hear from students at these schools and know what their experience was like while searching for a job because a lot of information that I find is conflicting.

HYS appears head and shoulders above everybody else. Then CCN is just slightly better than the rest of the t-14.

What percentage of law school grads from each t-14 get BigLaw jobs upon graduation (e.g. job paying $100k+)?

HYS?
CCN?
MVP?
DCNG?

I am curious because I would like to know the risk (e.g. the ability to pay back loans) involved that attending a prospective law school represents.

Thanks.

User avatar
FuManChusco
Posts: 1217
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:56 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby FuManChusco » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:53 pm

What a unique and interesting thread. I can't wait to see the responses.

/sarcasm

lawyerwannabe
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:39 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby lawyerwannabe » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:54 pm

I know that the higher ranked the schools are the higher percentage.

I simply am interested in the disparity between levels in the t-14. If the economy is really as bad as some people say they are and prospects for even a lot of t-14 students are bleak, why do people still attend schools ranked 50 and below?

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby paratactical » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:55 pm

This thread will certainly bring out information that isn't readily available other places!

lawyerwannabe
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:39 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby lawyerwannabe » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:03 pm

I am searching the forums as I type this. Simply was hoping to see some more input.

No more sarcasm. Either post relevant information or just go about your business please.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby paratactical » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:05 pm

lawyerwannabe wrote:No more sarcasm. Either post relevant information or just go about your business please.

:lol:

Yeah, cause you can totally enforce this asinine threat.

Seriously, you should be looking at Law School Transparency and the NLJ250. There are hundreds and hundreds of posts about employment and how accurate school information may or may not be.

bigkahuna2020
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:12 am

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby bigkahuna2020 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:09 pm

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=108605

Also, I tend to think NLJ250 is an underreport, as there are some firms outside of the top 250 that are quite large and regional/bicoastal that tend to offer starting salaries in the 115-135k range, though you can argue it is an overreport because of deferrals

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby paratactical » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:11 pm

bigkahuna2020 wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=108605

Also, I tend to think NLJ250 is an underreport, as there are some firms outside of the top 250 that are quite large and regional/bicoastal that tend to offer starting salaries in the 115-135k range, though you can argue it is an overreport because of deferrals


Yeah, but if you're really talking BIGlaw, you're talking the 160k market firms and with the bimodal distribution, there aren't a lot of 100k-140k places in major markets. It's also an issue of where you want to be and your pretige whoreishness. I mean, who would srsly work for a firm that's ranked under 60 in Vault?

lawyerwannabe
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:39 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby lawyerwannabe » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:19 pm

Is Harvard and Yale lower on the list because some people who would qualify for BigLaw take clerkships or other such jobs instead?

Also, Law School Transparency appears useless. The salary reports on the website are for the Class of 2008 and it says that 25th, 50th, 75th salary percentiles for pretty much every top school is $160k. Maybe pre-ITE, but I highly doubt that ITE that those statistics are accurate.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby paratactical » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:20 pm

lawyerwannabe wrote:Is Harvard and Yale lower on the list because some people who would qualify for BigLaw take clerkships or other such jobs instead?

Also, Law School Transparency appears useless. The salary reports on the website are for the Class of 2008 and it says that 25th, 50th, 75th salary percentiles for pretty much every top school is $160k. Maybe pre-ITE, but I highly doubt that ITE that those statistics are accurate.


You'll get in everywhere you apply!

lawyerwannabe
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:39 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby lawyerwannabe » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:22 pm

What have you done in this thread except be of no help?

If I had numbers that "guaranteed" me acceptance to HYS, I would have never created this thread in the first place.

User avatar
thecilent
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby thecilent » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:24 pm

lulz. Para you're funny.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby paratactical » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:28 pm

thecilent wrote:lulz. Para you're funny.


Thanks, man, you'd better watch out. That post doesn't seem like relevant info. OP might send his cronies after you.

lawyerwannabe wrote:No more sarcasm. Either post relevant information or just go about your business please.

lawyerwannabe
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:39 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby lawyerwannabe » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:33 pm

People with cronies don't say please. :)

bigkahuna2020
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:12 am

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby bigkahuna2020 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:33 pm

paratactical wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=108605

Also, I tend to think NLJ250 is an underreport, as there are some firms outside of the top 250 that are quite large and regional/bicoastal that tend to offer starting salaries in the 115-135k range, though you can argue it is an overreport because of deferrals


Yeah, but if you're really talking BIGlaw, you're talking the 160k market firms and with the bimodal distribution, there aren't a lot of 100k-140k places in major markets. It's also an issue of where you want to be and your pretige whoreishness. I mean, who would srsly work for a firm that's ranked under 60 in Vault?


Untrue. I know for a fact there are numerous mid sized firms in NYC that have a starting salary of 125k, and they are general practice, and in Philly there are at least some that do the 115k starting salary

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/nalp-giv ... er-salary/

Looking at these graphs, there is still a solid 15-25% making from 70-140k

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby paratactical » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:35 pm

bigkahuna2020 wrote:
paratactical wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=108605

Also, I tend to think NLJ250 is an underreport, as there are some firms outside of the top 250 that are quite large and regional/bicoastal that tend to offer starting salaries in the 115-135k range, though you can argue it is an overreport because of deferrals


Yeah, but if you're really talking BIGlaw, you're talking the 160k market firms and with the bimodal distribution, there aren't a lot of 100k-140k places in major markets. It's also an issue of where you want to be and your pretige whoreishness. I mean, who would srsly work for a firm that's ranked under 60 in Vault?


Untrue. I know for a fact there are numerous mid sized firms in NYC that have a starting salary of 125k, and they are general practice, and in Philly there are at least some that do the 115k starting salary

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/nalp-giv ... er-salary/

Looking at these graphs, there is still a solid 15-25% making from 70-140k

Sorry I wasn't specific enough or whatever, but those *aren't* biglaw, which is what the OP was looking for. They're mid or small shops that are the level below biglaw, not biglaw in smaller markets that pays less, which is not exactly the same. At any rate, you're right that they do exists, but it's not like you can rely on getting those jobs if you don't get biglaw.

EDIT:

Further, if you look at what is in the link...

--ImageRemoved--

A lot of wanna-be lawyers claim that they don’t even want to make $160K. Fine. But understand the curve. If you don’t make $160K, it’s not likely that you’ll make just a little bit less — say, $120K. It’s not likely that you’ll make the average; it’s not even likely that you’ll make the median. If you don’t win the $160K lottery, chances are you’ll be clumped into the left-hand side of the curve, earning somewhere between $30,000 and $60,000 a year. That’s the kind of pay that a lot of people can get without three years of post-graduate education and six figures of debt.

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby r6_philly » Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:00 pm

paratactical wrote:
A lot of wanna-be lawyers claim that they don’t even want to make $160K. Fine. But understand the curve. If you don’t make $160K, it’s not likely that you’ll make just a little bit less — say, $120K. It’s not likely that you’ll make the average; it’s not even likely that you’ll make the median. If you don’t win the $160K lottery, chances are you’ll be clumped into the left-hand side of the curve, earning somewhere between $30,000 and $60,000 a year. That’s the kind of pay that a lot of people can get without three years of post-graduate education and six figures of debt.


Depends on how craptastic your UG major is.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby paratactical » Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:02 pm

r6_philly wrote:
paratactical wrote:
A lot of wanna-be lawyers claim that they don’t even want to make $160K. Fine. But understand the curve. If you don’t make $160K, it’s not likely that you’ll make just a little bit less — say, $120K. It’s not likely that you’ll make the average; it’s not even likely that you’ll make the median. If you don’t win the $160K lottery, chances are you’ll be clumped into the left-hand side of the curve, earning somewhere between $30,000 and $60,000 a year. That’s the kind of pay that a lot of people can get without three years of post-graduate education and six figures of debt.


Depends on how craptastic your UG major is.


I majored in Creative Writing and Radio Broadcasting at a shitty school and I'm doing better than that. I don't know what Basketweaving at Bob Jones Bible College can get you, but I imagine there's not much worse than majoring in Poetry for DJs.

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby r6_philly » Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:07 pm

paratactical wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
paratactical wrote:
A lot of wanna-be lawyers claim that they don’t even want to make $160K. Fine. But understand the curve. If you don’t make $160K, it’s not likely that you’ll make just a little bit less — say, $120K. It’s not likely that you’ll make the average; it’s not even likely that you’ll make the median. If you don’t win the $160K lottery, chances are you’ll be clumped into the left-hand side of the curve, earning somewhere between $30,000 and $60,000 a year. That’s the kind of pay that a lot of people can get without three years of post-graduate education and six figures of debt.


Depends on how craptastic your UG major is.


I majored in Creative Writing and Radio Broadcasting at a shitty school and I'm doing better than that. I don't know what Basketweaving at Bob Jones Bible College can get you, but I imagine there's not much worse than majoring in Poetry for DJs.


Radio Broadcasting is not a craptastic major. You have interpersonal, communication skills and perhaps a charming personality which can get you jobs. Some of the liberal arts majors practically don't offer any sort of real-world, job-getting skills, so attending an additional 3 years worth of professional school may almost be necessary.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby paratactical » Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:10 pm

r6_philly wrote: You have interpersonal, communication skills and perhaps a charming personality which can get you jobs.

:lol:

This is funny because it's directed at me, but I do get your point, fwiw. I just think it's the person and not the UG major that gets you the job.

User avatar
20160810
Posts: 19648
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:18 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby 20160810 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:12 pm

bigkahuna2020 wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=108605

Also, I tend to think NLJ250 is an underreport, as there are some firms outside of the top 250 that are quite large and regional/bicoastal that tend to offer starting salaries in the 115-135k range, though you can argue it is an overreport because of deferrals

This is pretty credited. The difference between the bottom end of the NLJ250 and the "best of the rest," especially in non-NYC/DC markets, is not all that significant.

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby r6_philly » Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:20 pm

paratactical wrote:
r6_philly wrote: You have interpersonal, communication skills and perhaps a charming personality which can get you jobs.

:lol:

This is funny because it's directed at me, but I do get your point, fwiw. I just think it's the person and not the UG major that gets you the job.


Actually, I wrote that because it's directed at you :wink:

You are right, it's the person, but the person also chose the major. The PS major that always sit in the back corner in class would have never chosen a communications or radio broadcasting major... the major is just a reflection of the person, since it is really the first really independent decision that most kids had to make in their lives. (and most choose pretty craptastically)

Sandro
Posts: 2526
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:12 am

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby Sandro » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:56 pm

[/quote]

Radio Broadcasting is not a craptastic major. You have interpersonal, communication skills and perhaps a charming personality which can get you jobs. Some of the liberal arts majors practically don't offer any sort of real-world, job-getting skills, so attending an additional 3 years worth of professional school may almost be necessary.[/quote]

Correct. For a lot of people in this economy their major and experience isnt going to get them anything worthwhile for the next couple years. Atleast law school gives them a shot lol.

User avatar
jenesaislaw
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: t-14 and BigLaw

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:43 pm

lawyerwannabe wrote:Is Harvard and Yale lower on the list because some people who would qualify for BigLaw take clerkships or other such jobs instead?

Also, Law School Transparency appears useless. The salary reports on the website are for the Class of 2008 and it says that 25th, 50th, 75th salary percentiles for pretty much every top school is $160k. Maybe pre-ITE, but I highly doubt that ITE that those statistics are accurate.


The 2008 salary figures are the most up to date school-specific salary figures available, except where schools provide them on their websites. Not all schools are providing 2009 numbers at this time, perhaps because they're not very good (LST is looking for people to do some research on this point; please PM me if you are interested). The 2010 numbers will not be available until February 2011.

That said, you've missed the point about the salary quartiles on our website. First, they don't represent what prospectives should expect if they go to law school now. But neither should the 2010 numbers when they are available. What these numbers do is serve to ground expectations. You still have to do some guessing, so their best purpose is relative comparisons. This brings me to the second point. The salary quartiles are just what schools reported to U.S. News. However, our charts repackage the available information to let prospectives know just how much they can glean from those quartiles. There is a great deal of information there.

Compare NYLS: --LinkRemoved--
To NYU: --LinkRemoved--




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: clueless801 and 8 guests