Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby niederbomb » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:09 am

Just wondering...Seattle seems like a large legal market, and I wouldn't mind living there. Beats Dallas for sure.

I'm retaking the LSAT anyway and trying to get into Michigan, which also places well in the area, but hypothetically, what's the job market like in Seattle for UW grads right now? BigLaw stats?

Michigan vs. UW for Seattle

UT Austin vs. UW for West coast

UBC (Canada) vs. UW for Seattle

UC Berkeley vs. UW for Seattle

Seattle legal market vs. other places

pasteurizedmilk
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:12 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:16 am

Seattle is a very small legal market. It's oversaturated and absurdly hard to break into. There's plenty of law reviewers at T10s that struck out there and landed V20 gigs elsewhere.

Ties to the area are crucial for Seattle firms. If you lack strong ties you will have a tough time. Going to UW would be something of a good tie to the region, but probably not great.

UW would limit your options to pretty much only the PNW, which is something you might not want if you don't end up w/ top grades and can't break into the PNW market.

If you actually want to live in the PNW, go to UW. W/o ties none of those other schools are going to give you a great shot at breaking into the Seattle market, so UW probably is your best bet for starting your career in Seattle. But even then, it's not a great shot at breaking into Seattle since UW is a mediocre school and Seattle firms have a lot of T10ers w/ good grades and strong ties who want to return to the area and practice.....

Why do you want to live in Seattle? Have you lived in the area before?

User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby niederbomb » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:23 am

pasteurizedmilk wrote:

Seattle is a very small legal market. It's oversaturated and absurdly hard to break into. There's plenty of law reviewers at T10s that struck out there and landed V20 gigs elsewhere.

Ties to the area are crucial for Seattle firms. If you lack strong ties you will have a tough time. Going to UW would be something of a good tie to the region, but probably not great.

UW would limit your options to pretty much only the PNW, which is something you might not want if you don't end up w/ top grades and can't break into the PNW market.

If you actually want to live in the PNW, go to UW. W/o ties none of those other schools are going to give you a great shot at breaking into the Seattle market, so UW probably is your best bet for starting your career in Seattle. But even then, it's not a great shot at breaking into Seattle since UW is a mediocre school and Seattle firms have a lot of T10ers w/ good grades and strong ties who want to return to the area and practice.....

Why do you want to live in Seattle? Have you lived in the area before?


Yes, I lived in the area (and Vancouver for 6 months) for several years in the late 1990's before my parents moved to Texas, so it's one place I wouldn't mind going back to. I was also stationed in Fort Lewis in the U.S. Army more recently.

But after the information you posted, I guess it's not worth it to even apply if UW job prospects are hit or miss. Seattle is not even my first choice of places to live, and in fact, Vancouver is better (IMO).

pasteurizedmilk
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:12 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:25 am

Vancouver's a nice area. Have you considered UBC? If you're committed to the area, that is.

If you're unsure where you want to practice, I'd say Berk or Mich are your best choices. Much more flexibility than the other schools you've listed.

User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby niederbomb » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:28 am

Yes, I've applied to UBC already and think I have an ok chance.

I need to improve my LSAT for Michigan/Berkekley.

Low-mid 160's, even with 3.9+, won't cut it there. UBC values the LSAT much less.

JOThompson
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:16 am

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby JOThompson » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:35 am

UW is highly regarded in the northwest. However, the Seattle market is tiny and insular. It's not uncommon for UW grads at the top of their class to have better offers outside the region. Hardly anyone is cracking the Seattle market now, regardless of what school they hail from. From anecdotal evidence I've seen on this site, I suspect that UW may outperform the lower T14 in Seattle. Not clear how much of an advantage you'd have with a Berkeley degree. Maybe someone would like to chime in with concrete statistics.

User avatar
Magi228
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:40 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby Magi228 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:03 am

I would be extremely interested in knowing about this as well. Originally I was only planning on applying to UW because the northwest is where I want to practice eventually, but quite a few people have told me to apply to better schools if the option is there. It probably doesn't help that I live in Seattle so UW is the only law school I can conveniently visit.

I just wish there were some better/more highly ranked law school in this region. It seems strange to me that major cities like Portland and Seattle wouldn't have larger legal markets.

JOThompson
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:16 am

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby JOThompson » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:02 pm

Magi228 wrote:I would be extremely interested in knowing about this as well. Originally I was only planning on applying to UW because the northwest is where I want to practice eventually, but quite a few people have told me to apply to better schools if the option is there. It probably doesn't help that I live in Seattle so UW is the only law school I can conveniently visit.

I just wish there were some better/more highly ranked law school in this region. It seems strange to me that major cities like Portland and Seattle wouldn't have larger legal markets.

So you have ties to the area? I think connection to the region + ~T10 would be preferable to U-Dub + connections. Even if you don't land a Portland or Seattle job, a JD from a more prestigious school will open up options in other desirable markets.

User avatar
Magi228
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:40 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby Magi228 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:13 pm

JOThompson wrote:
Magi228 wrote:I would be extremely interested in knowing about this as well. Originally I was only planning on applying to UW because the northwest is where I want to practice eventually, but quite a few people have told me to apply to better schools if the option is there. It probably doesn't help that I live in Seattle so UW is the only law school I can conveniently visit.

I just wish there were some better/more highly ranked law school in this region. It seems strange to me that major cities like Portland and Seattle wouldn't have larger legal markets.

So you have ties to the area? I think connection to the region + ~T10 would be preferable to U-Dub + connections. Even if you don't land a Portland or Seattle job, a JD from a more prestigious school will open up options in other desirable markets.


Thank you for the advice. I am definitely beginning to lean in this direction myself. If the northwest has such a difficult legal market it seems to make sense to try for a more marketable degree that isn't tied to a narrow region. Unfortunately up to this point I have really only researched PNW schools, so now I have to broaden my scope and start the research process over again.

Since this is TLS I suppose I am obligated to give my numbers: 169/3.82 mexican URM...

JOThompson
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:16 am

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby JOThompson » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:25 pm

Those are impressive numbers. UW could be slightly tempting if they offered you a full ride, but the school is known to be tight with scholarships. You should go to the best school possible. That'll help you stand out from the UW grads that attempt to remain in the PNW. If funds are a problem, you should ask for fee waivers. I visited over a dozen schools and found the process helpful when making my decisions, but it's by no means necessary. Most students don't visit the schools that they apply to. Once you snag a few acceptances, it's possible that travel stipends will be issued to you, so you may have the chance to visit your top choices.

User avatar
stratocophic
Posts: 2207
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby stratocophic » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:27 pm

Magi228 wrote:
JOThompson wrote:
Magi228 wrote:I would be extremely interested in knowing about this as well. Originally I was only planning on applying to UW because the northwest is where I want to practice eventually, but quite a few people have told me to apply to better schools if the option is there. It probably doesn't help that I live in Seattle so UW is the only law school I can conveniently visit.

I just wish there were some better/more highly ranked law school in this region. It seems strange to me that major cities like Portland and Seattle wouldn't have larger legal markets.

So you have ties to the area? I think connection to the region + ~T10 would be preferable to U-Dub + connections. Even if you don't land a Portland or Seattle job, a JD from a more prestigious school will open up options in other desirable markets.


Thank you for the advice. I am definitely beginning to lean in this direction myself. If the northwest has such a difficult legal market it seems to make sense to try for a more marketable degree that isn't tied to a narrow region. Unfortunately up to this point I have really only researched PNW schools, so now I have to broaden my scope and start the research process over again.

Since this is TLS I suppose I am obligated to give my numbers: 169/3.82 mexican URM...
Berkeley's probably TCR here, unless you can swing Stanford.

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby bdubs » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 pm

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2474458011

New York is 10x as large as Seattle. It is scary how concentrated legal employment is.

User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby niederbomb » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:15 pm

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2474458011

New York is 10x as large as Seattle. It is scary how concentrated legal employment is.


Thanks for that link. Very helpful for other reasons. I wonder how Toronto compares to DC/Chicago/LA?

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby im_blue » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:18 pm

bdubs wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202474458011

New York is 10x as large as Seattle. It is scary how concentrated legal employment is.

The NYC metro area already has 6x the population of Seattle, so 10x the legal market isn't that surprising.

jacko
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby jacko » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:51 pm

As someone who grew up in the PNW, I can tell you that for some reason UW is the Harvard of the PNW. Schools like Penn or UVA aren't even know to the lay person. In regards to your question, my advice is this: If you want Biglaw then don't go to UW but if you want to work in Seattle regardless of the firm then UW is your best bet.

pasteurizedmilk
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:12 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:54 pm

jacko wrote:As someone who grew up in the PNW, I can tell you that for some reason UW is the Harvard of the PNW. Schools like Penn or UVA aren't even know to the lay person. In regards to your question, my advice is this: If you want Biglaw then don't go to UW but if you want to work in Seattle regardless of the firm then UW is your best bet.


As someone who grew up in the PNW, I can tell you that for some reason UW is the Harvard of the PNW.
So true. I have NO clue why Seattle people are so obsessed with UW. They truly believe it's on par with Harvard, as do most UW students. It's hysterical.

jacko
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby jacko » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:01 pm

I will also add this: My lsat tutor practices in Seattle and went to UW for undergrad and Michigan for law school. He suggested going to UW if you wanted to work in Seattle due to the fact that although T14 grads probably have just as good if not better odds at Biglaw, they are at disadvantages for mid law and other legal opportunities. For what he is doing now, he thought he wasted some $ by going to Michigan. Also, I happen to have a family friend at either Perkins or KL Gates (not going to tell you which) who suggested going to UW over higher ranked schools because of the overall equal footing that most graduates have and due to the current legal market.

Hope that helps.

User avatar
Adjudicator
Posts: 1108
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:18 am

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby Adjudicator » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:04 pm

jacko wrote:I will also add this: My lsat tutor practices in Seattle and went to UW for undergrad and Michigan for law school. He suggested going to UW if you wanted to work in Seattle due to the fact that although T14 grads probably have just as good if not better odds at Biglaw, they are at disadvantages for mid law and other legal opportunities. For what he is doing now, he thought he wasted some $ by going to Michigan. Also, I happen to have a family friend at either Perkins or KL Gates (not going to tell you which) who suggested going to UW over higher ranked schools because of the overall equal footing that most graduates have and due to the current legal market.

Hope that helps.


Thanks, that is consistent with what I have heard before and it just reinforces my decision to make UW my top choice, given that I am certain that I want to settle down in Seattle for the foreseeable future. And especially since my GPA already makes HYSCCN impossible and MVP unlikely.

Knowing that I want to work here, I don't think there is any school (that I can get in to) that would lead me to better prospects than UW.

User avatar
Magi228
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:40 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby Magi228 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:37 pm

Hmmm. It seems that we now have some conflicting advice. I suppose that is just the way that message boards (and opinions in general) tend to go.

Maybe I will flip a coin?

jacko
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby jacko » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:43 am

If you have any additional questions PM me.

User avatar
niederbomb
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:07 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby niederbomb » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:03 am

Hmmm. It seems that we now have some conflicting advice. I suppose that is just the way that message boards (and opinions in general) tend to go.

Maybe I will flip a coin?


Seriously.

I guess we can conclude: 1) UW is the dominant school to work in Seattle, 2) Seattle is a small legal market, and 3) Seattle is a saturated/competitive legal market, so even if UW is the best school to go to to work in Seattle, Seattle is not a good place to find a job as a lawyer in a law firm making enough money to pay off loans.

Thus, I will be applying to UBC only (in the PNW) unless I get a fee waiver from UW. UBC grads all get jobs. UBC is only $22,000 per year, and Vancouver has lots of hot Asian women. :) Thanks everyone!

User avatar
Magi228
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:40 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby Magi228 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:16 pm

niederbomb wrote:
Hmmm. It seems that we now have some conflicting advice. I suppose that is just the way that message boards (and opinions in general) tend to go.

Maybe I will flip a coin?


Seriously.

I guess we can conclude: 1) UW is the dominant school to work in Seattle, 2) Seattle is a small legal market, and 3) Seattle is a saturated/competitive legal market, so even if UW is the best school to go to to work in Seattle, Seattle is not a good place to find a job as a lawyer in a law firm making enough money to pay off loans.

Thus, I will be applying to UBC only (in the PNW) unless I get a fee waiver from UW. UBC grads all get jobs. UBC is only $22,000 per year, and Vancouver has lots of hot Asian women. :) Thanks everyone!


Damn you and your Canadian escape route! Have fun with your cheap tuition and hot asian women!

Good luck man :)

pasteurizedmilk
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:12 pm

Re: Is UW really a TTT or a dominant regional school?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:24 pm

If the choice is lower T14 or UW, and the goal is biglaw, I'd take the lower T14. You have equal chances of breaking itno seattle biglaw from lower T14 or UW, and w/ the lower T14 you have a better chance at other large markets.

If the goal is to work in Seattle, biglaw or not, UW is probably the better option. Less debt from UW makes smaller firms a viable career choice.

So it just depends. If you're fully committed to Seattle (even if it entails taking a lower paying job) I'd take UW. If you're committed to big law, the lower T14 makes more sense. But either way, you better kill 1L year. It's cold out there for median students from any university except the T6.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests