What will I lose by not going HYS?

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Billy Shakes
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What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby Billy Shakes » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:35 pm

Hello, first post.

Here's the boat I'm in. If I apply ED to U. Chicago it's a pretty sure thing. However, up to this point I'd had my heart set on HYS (mostly H or Y). I was PTing at the level I would need to go to HYS, but on Oct. 10th I got a little lower than expected. I'm pretty sure that I could retake in December and get what I'd need, but that would mean forgoing early decision at U. Chicago.

I prefer to think of decisions as closing doors. What doors will I be closing by going to U. Chicago over HYS?

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Chris_cpb
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Re: What will I lose by losing by not going HYS?

Postby Chris_cpb » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:41 pm

Well according to a lot of threads on this forum regarding 2L OCI (interviews) you may be more likely to 'strike out' at U. Chicago. People seem to say that HYS is 'safer' in terms of getting an offer from a firm via OCI. This should not be surprising.

Billy Shakes
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Re: What will I lose by losing by not going HYS?

Postby Billy Shakes » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:44 pm

Chris_cpb wrote:Well according to a lot of threads on this forum regarding 2L OCI (interviews) you may be more likely to 'strike out' at U. Chicago. People seem to say that HYS is 'safer' in terms of getting an offer from a firm via OCI. This should not be surprising.


What's a rough percentage of those at U. Chicago who get no offer after the 2l OCI?

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2014
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby 2014 » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:45 pm

If you are a sure thing for ED to UChi, I imagine you are very competitive RD as well given that they don't give a massive boost to ED. Why not apply RD and retake to keep your doors open? If you are going to pay sticker, you might as well do so at HYS if you can get in. Worst case you end up at UMich with a scholarship or wait until next year and apply earlier ED if you feel like it.

Billy Shakes
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby Billy Shakes » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:49 pm

2014 wrote:If you are a sure thing for ED to UChi, I imagine you are very competitive RD as well given that they don't give a massive boost to ED. Why not apply RD and retake to keep your doors open? If you are going to pay sticker, you might as well do so at HYS if you can get in. Worst case you end up at UMich with a scholarship or wait until next year and apply earlier ED if you feel like it.


I appreciate your advice, but because of family waiting is not an option. I'm also considering various retake scenarios. However, at this point I think that the answer to the "which doors will close" question will help me best decide which way to apply.

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im_blue
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby im_blue » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:50 pm

What are your numbers? We'll tell you if you should ED to Chicago or hold out for the December LSAT and HYS.

Billy Shakes
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby Billy Shakes » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:52 pm

im_blue wrote:What are your numbers? We'll tell you if you should ED to Chicago or hold out for the December LSAT and HYS.


I'm sorry, but I would prefer not to share my numbers. I'm really just interested in opinions on what I'll be losing by attending U. Chicago over HYS.

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rayiner
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby rayiner » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:54 pm

Billy Shakes wrote:
im_blue wrote:What are your numbers? We'll tell you if you should ED to Chicago or hold out for the December LSAT and HYS.


I'm sorry, but I would prefer not to share my numbers. I'm really just interested in opinions on what I'll be losing by attending U. Chicago over HYS.


Everlasting prestige.

EDIT: Seriously, nobody knows what a "U of Chicago" is.

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Chris_cpb
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Re: What will I lose by losing by not going HYS?

Postby Chris_cpb » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:55 pm

Billy Shakes wrote:
Chris_cpb wrote:Well according to a lot of threads on this forum regarding 2L OCI (interviews) you may be more likely to 'strike out' at U. Chicago. People seem to say that HYS is 'safer' in terms of getting an offer from a firm via OCI. This should not be surprising.


What's a rough percentage of those at U. Chicago who get no offer after the 2l OCI?


Blindly guessing I would say 35-55%

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im_blue
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby im_blue » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:55 pm

Billy Shakes wrote:
im_blue wrote:What are your numbers? We'll tell you if you should ED to Chicago or hold out for the December LSAT and HYS.


I'm sorry, but I would prefer not to share my numbers. I'm really just interested in opinions on what I'll be losing by attending U. Chicago over HYS.

prestige, prestige, prestige, job opportunities, and prestige

Billy Shakes
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Re: What will I lose by losing by not going HYS?

Postby Billy Shakes » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:56 pm

Chris_cpb wrote:
Billy Shakes wrote:
Chris_cpb wrote:Well according to a lot of threads on this forum regarding 2L OCI (interviews) you may be more likely to 'strike out' at U. Chicago. People seem to say that HYS is 'safer' in terms of getting an offer from a firm via OCI. This should not be surprising.


What's a rough percentage of those at U. Chicago who get no offer after the 2l OCI?


Blindly guessing I would say 35-55%


I couldn't find anything related to this on their law school career services website.

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Chris_cpb
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Re: What will I lose by losing by not going HYS?

Postby Chris_cpb » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:56 pm

Billy Shakes wrote:
Chris_cpb wrote:
Billy Shakes wrote:
Chris_cpb wrote:Well according to a lot of threads on this forum regarding 2L OCI (interviews) you may be more likely to 'strike out' at U. Chicago. People seem to say that HYS is 'safer' in terms of getting an offer from a firm via OCI. This should not be surprising.


What's a rough percentage of those at U. Chicago who get no offer after the 2l OCI?


Blindly guessing I would say 35-55%


I couldn't find anything related to this on their law school career services website.


Hopefully this is not surprising. By the way, when I say 'blindly guessing' I mean it.

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im_blue
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Re: What will I lose by losing by not going HYS?

Postby im_blue » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:58 pm

Billy Shakes wrote:
Chris_cpb wrote:Well according to a lot of threads on this forum regarding 2L OCI (interviews) you may be more likely to 'strike out' at U. Chicago. People seem to say that HYS is 'safer' in terms of getting an offer from a firm via OCI. This should not be surprising.


What's a rough percentage of those at U. Chicago who get no offer after the 2l OCI?

30-35% compared to 5-10% at HYS.

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BruceWayne
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Re: What will I lose by losing by not going HYS?

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:59 pm

Chris_cpb wrote:Hopefully this is not surprising. By the way, when I say 'blindly guessing' I mean it.


LMAO. I like how you are willing to admit this. A lot of people on here totally make placement numbers up based off of US News rank.

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Chris_cpb
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Re: What will I lose by losing by not going HYS?

Postby Chris_cpb » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:02 am

BruceWayne wrote:
Chris_cpb wrote:Hopefully this is not surprising. By the way, when I say 'blindly guessing' I mean it.


LMAO. I like how you are willing to admit this. A lot of people on here totally make placement numbers up based off of US News rank.


Those people think that 100% of LS students respond to surveys. The avg. salary out of Tulane is not $130,000.

Billy Shakes
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby Billy Shakes » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:02 am

rayiner wrote:Everlasting prestige.


Is law school the only place where prestige can be won? I'm wondering about differences more tangible than prestige. Say you're in the top 20% of your class at U. Chicago, is there anything that an HYS student could do that you couldn't?
Last edited by Billy Shakes on Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JG Hall
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby JG Hall » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:03 am

Billy Shakes wrote:
im_blue wrote:What are your numbers? We'll tell you if you should ED to Chicago or hold out for the December LSAT and HYS.


I'm sorry, but I would prefer not to share my numbers. I'm really just interested in opinions on what I'll be losing by attending U. Chicago over HYS.

But if you can't actually get in to HYS, this entire thing is moot.

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St.Remy
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Re: What will I lose by losing by not going HYS?

Postby St.Remy » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:04 am

Chris_cpb wrote:Hopefully this is not surprising. By the way, when I say 'blindly guessing' I mean it.


+1, don't expect schools to publicize the students who have no jobs and are out $200,000. If you are choosing between HYS and Chicago, the correct answer is always going to be HYS. That being said, H is the only one of the three where a retake will be capable of really clinching that spot for you, since Y and S are less numbers based.

Billy Shakes
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby Billy Shakes » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:06 am

JG Hall wrote:
Billy Shakes wrote:
im_blue wrote:What are your numbers? We'll tell you if you should ED to Chicago or hold out for the December LSAT and HYS.


I'm sorry, but I would prefer not to share my numbers. I'm really just interested in opinions on what I'll be losing by attending U. Chicago over HYS.

But if you can't actually get in to HYS, this entire thing is moot.


Even if you have perfect numbers there is a chance that you will get rejected, no? Regardless of numbers there is a chance that this whole thread will be moot. I'd give my numbers if they had an impact on the differences between HYS and U. Chicago, but they don't so I'd prefer not to...although I'm starting to feel like a bit of an ass for not doing so.

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St.Remy
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby St.Remy » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:07 am

Billy Shakes wrote:
rayiner wrote:Everlasting prestige.


Is law school the only place where prestige can be won? I'm wondering about differences more tangible than prestige. Say you're in the top 20% of your class at U. Chicago, is there anything that an HYS student could do that you couldn't?


Top 20% U Chicago is not assured the same shot at a clerkship in the same way that a top 40% HYSer is. If you are number 1 in your Chicago class doors will not be closed to you, but the entire purpose of going to higher ranked schools is that you have more wiggle room for when you find yourself not #1 in a class.

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rayiner
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby rayiner » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:08 am

Billy Shakes wrote:
rayiner wrote:Everlasting prestige.


Is law school the only place where prestige can be won? I'm wondering about differences more tangible than prestige. Say you're in the top 20% of your class at U. Chicago, is there anything that an HYS student could do that you couldn't?


If you're top 20% of your class at U Chi, you could probably be top 25% at HLS. There are things that top 25% at HLS can do that top 20% U Chi can't.

Plus, unless you get Kirkland Scholar or something at U Chicago, nobody will remember what your grades were. Meanwhile, it'll say HLS on your resume forever.

Glibness aside, top 1/4 at U Chicago will open nearly any door in big firm private practice you want (V5, etc). At both places, you'll need to be even higher in the class to get truly elite jobs (W&C, etc). With regards to private practice, what Y/S buy you is grade insensitivity. Median at Y/S, and to a lesser extent H, can get jobs that top 1/4 at Y/S can get that top 1/4 at U Chicago can get. If you're near the bottom of the class, Y/S will buy you employability that H won't, and U Chicago won't (to a greater degree than H).

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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby Billy Shakes » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:13 am

St.Remy wrote:Top 20% U Chicago is not assured the same shot at a clerkship in the same way that a top 40% HYSer is. If you are number 1 in your Chicago class doors will not be closed to you, but the entire purpose of going to higher ranked schools is that you have more wiggle room for when you find yourself not #1 in a class.


Clerkships are something that interest me very much. A relation clerked on the Supreme Court and that is a goal I've set for myself. What kind of shape does a U. Chicago student have to be in to be a serious candidate for that kind of position, versus a HYS student.

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St.Remy
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby St.Remy » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:17 am

Billy Shakes wrote:
St.Remy wrote:Top 20% U Chicago is not assured the same shot at a clerkship in the same way that a top 40% HYSer is. If you are number 1 in your Chicago class doors will not be closed to you, but the entire purpose of going to higher ranked schools is that you have more wiggle room for when you find yourself not #1 in a class.


Clerkships are something that interest me very much. A relation clerked on the Supreme Court and that is a goal I've set for myself. What kind of shape does a U. Chicago student have to be in to be a serious candidate for that kind of position, versus a HYS student.


Haha, pretty sure you're a flame but I'll play along. To clerk for the Supreme Court go to HYS, with emphasis on the Y.

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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby Billy Shakes » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:18 am

rayiner wrote:Glibness aside, top 1/4 at U Chicago will open nearly any door in big firm private practice you want (V5, etc). At both places, you'll need to be even higher in the class to get truly elite jobs (W&C, etc). With regards to private practice, what Y/S buy you is grade insensitivity. Median at Y/S, and to a lesser extent H, can get jobs that top 1/4 at Y/S can get that top 1/4 at U Chicago can get. If you're near the bottom of the class, Y/S will buy you employability that H won't, and U Chicago won't (to a greater degree than H).

Thank you, I find this very helpful.

rayiner wrote:There are things that top 25% at HLS can do that top 20% U Chi can't.

What sort of things?
Last edited by Billy Shakes on Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: What will I lose by not going HYS?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:18 am

Billy Shakes wrote:
rayiner wrote:Glibness aside, top 1/4 at U Chicago will open nearly any door in big firm private practice you want (V5, etc). At both places, you'll need to be even higher in the class to get truly elite jobs (W&C, etc). With regards to private practice, what Y/S buy you is grade insensitivity. Median at Y/S, and to a lesser extent H, can get jobs that top 1/4 at Y/S can get that top 1/4 at U Chicago can get. If you're near the bottom of the class, Y/S will buy you employability that H won't, and U Chicago won't (to a greater degree than H).

Thank you, I find this very helpful.

rayiner wrote:There are things that top 25% at HLS can do that top 20% U Chi can't.

What sort of thing?


Hold a conversation.




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