What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

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IAFG
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby IAFG » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:30 pm

gdane5 wrote:
IAFG wrote:the thing is, we're at T14s, scared shitless we're not going to get anything from OCI/never have a fair shot at earning out stripes.

I understand that. It is scary. You put so much time and effort to get into your school and then you dont get that coveted job. It does suck.

or possibly any job at all. ask corsair about this. you could end up just totally fucked, with all the debt and no options. that can happen at any school, but i would not enter into the game unless i thought the deck was stacked in my favor.

whymeohgodno
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:33 pm

IAFG wrote:
gdane5 wrote:
IAFG wrote:the thing is, we're at T14s, scared shitless we're not going to get anything from OCI/never have a fair shot at earning out stripes.

I understand that. It is scary. You put so much time and effort to get into your school and then you dont get that coveted job. It does suck.

or possibly any job at all. ask corsair about this. you could end up just totally fucked, with all the debt and no options. that can happen at any school, but i would not enter into the game unless i thought the deck was stacked in my favor.


Stacked in your favor? Then why are you at a non HYS school?

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gdane
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby gdane » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:33 pm

IAFG wrote:
gdane5 wrote:
IAFG wrote:the thing is, we're at T14s, scared shitless we're not going to get anything from OCI/never have a fair shot at earning out stripes.

I understand that. It is scary. You put so much time and effort to get into your school and then you dont get that coveted job. It does suck.

or possibly any job at all. ask corsair about this. you could end up just totally fucked, with all the debt and no options. that can happen at any school, but i would not enter into the game unless i thought the deck was stacked in my favor.

Right. The deck is definitely stacked in your favor. NU is a great school.

Also, I know Corsairs deal. He said he had an interview though.

HeavenWood
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:34 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
IAFG wrote:
gdane5 wrote:
IAFG wrote:the thing is, we're at T14s, scared shitless we're not going to get anything from OCI/never have a fair shot at earning out stripes.

I understand that. It is scary. You put so much time and effort to get into your school and then you dont get that coveted job. It does suck.

or possibly any job at all. ask corsair about this. you could end up just totally fucked, with all the debt and no options. that can happen at any school, but i would not enter into the game unless i thought the deck was stacked in my favor.


Stacked in your favor? Then why are you at a non HYS school?


It's all relative to a point: HYS or bust, T6 or bust, T14 or bust, I've even seen a couple T17s or bust. It all depends on how willing you are to play the odds.

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gdane
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby gdane » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:36 pm

HeavenWood wrote:It's all relative to a point: HYS or bust, T6 or bust, T14 or bust, I've even seen a couple T17s or bust. It all depends on how willing you are to play the odds.

Exactly right.

Quite honestly, anyone of these scenarios is just ridiculous. Its especially ridiculous for anyone to say "HYS or dont go to law school". Theres no excuse for that.

Now, I dont advocate people go to TTT's, but there are many fine schools outside of HYS and the t14.

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Veyron
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby Veyron » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:37 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:Veyron is a dick. I'm 99% sure he doesn't act like this in real life.

But his comments do have a solid ring of truth. I'm sure most people don't want to be in 200k+ debt for the rest of their lives.


Why wouldn't I act like this IRL?

Although TBF, I did once tell my friend that he was fine with a mid 160's LSAT score. I guess I'm not a complete dick. Well, that or he also had above a 4.0 according to LSAC, one or the other.


"there are many fine schools outside of HYS and the t14."

Sure, as long as you can get a full ride.

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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:38 pm

Veyron wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Veyron is a dick. I'm 99% sure he doesn't act like this in real life.

But his comments do have a solid ring of truth. I'm sure most people don't want to be in 200k+ debt for the rest of their lives.


Why wouldn't I act like this IRL?

Although TBF, I did once tell my friend that he was fine with a mid 160's LSAT score. I guess I'm not a complete dick. Well, that or he also had above a 4.0 according to LSAC, one or the other.


This is what I mean.

I've talked to people who say they want to go to a law school with a low 160s or a high 150 score.

I don't go "Oh you shouldn't go to law school. You will be in 200k+ debt and with that LSAT score you probably won't do well anyways".

I just say "Oh good luck".

I don't encourage them but I would never say some of the stuff I say on TLS to someone IRL. Especially an acquaintance.

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IAFG
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby IAFG » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:39 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Stacked in your favor? Then why are you at a non HYS school?


It's all relative to a point: HYS or bust, T6 or bust, T14 or bust, I've even seen a couple T17s or bust. It all depends on how willing you are to play the odds.

and things like aid/financing, connections, work experience, market ties, etc etc. HLS kids have gotten shut out at OCI, electrical engineers are fine at a pretty broad range of schools. the formula is different for everyone.

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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:40 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
Veyron wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Veyron is a dick. I'm 99% sure he doesn't act like this in real life.

But his comments do have a solid ring of truth. I'm sure most people don't want to be in 200k+ debt for the rest of their lives.


Why wouldn't I act like this IRL?

Although TBF, I did once tell my friend that he was fine with a mid 160's LSAT score. I guess I'm not a complete dick. Well, that or he also had above a 4.0 according to LSAC, one or the other.


This is what I mean.

I've talked to people who say they want to go to a law school with a low 160s or a high 150 score.

I don't go "Oh you shouldn't go to law school. You will be in 200k+ debt and with that LSAT score you probably won't do well anyways".

I just say "Oh good luck".

I don't encourage them but I would never say some of the stuff I say on TLS to someone IRL. Especially an acquaintance.


Slightly off-topic, but how well does LSAT score indicate law school success anyway? I know it's better than UGPA, but isn't its correlation under .4 (IE, it's the best correlative factor available, but still fairly dismal as far as correlative factors go on an overall scale?)
Last edited by HeavenWood on Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gdane
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby gdane » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:41 pm

HeavenWood wrote:Slightly off-topic, but how well does LSAT score indicate law school success anyway? I know it's better than UGPA, but isn't its correlation under .4?

This topics been beated to death.

I personally believe a .4 correlation is extremely weak.

Who knows.

HeavenWood
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:41 pm

gdane5 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Slightly off-topic, but how well does LSAT score indicate law school success anyway? I know it's better than UGPA, but isn't its correlation under .4?

This topics been beated to death.

I personally believe a .4 correlation is extremely weak.

Who knows.


I'm not trying to beat a dead horse. I just wanted a quick answer and you gave me one. Thanks!

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IAFG
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby IAFG » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:41 pm

HeavenWood wrote:Slightly off-topic, but how well does LSAT score indicate law school success anyway? I know it's better than UGPA, but isn't its correlation under .4?


how helpful could statistical data within a class ever be when the range is so narrowed? some schools have their 25th-75th within 3 or 4 points of each other.

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Veyron
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby Veyron » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:42 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
Veyron wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Veyron is a dick. I'm 99% sure he doesn't act like this in real life.

But his comments do have a solid ring of truth. I'm sure most people don't want to be in 200k+ debt for the rest of their lives.


Why wouldn't I act like this IRL?

Although TBF, I did once tell my friend that he was fine with a mid 160's LSAT score. I guess I'm not a complete dick. Well, that or he also had above a 4.0 according to LSAC, one or the other.


This is what I mean.

I've talked to people who say they want to go to a law school with a low 160s or a high 150 score.

I don't go "Oh you shouldn't go to law school. You will be in 200k+ debt and with that LSAT score you probably won't do well anyways".

I just say "Oh good luck".

I don't encourage them but I would never say some of the stuff I say on TLS to someone IRL. Especially an acquaintance.


I think you missed the part where I said he had the numbers to get a full ride at a state flagship or admission to Berk/Cornell.

HeavenWood
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:44 pm

IAFG wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Slightly off-topic, but how well does LSAT score indicate law school success anyway? I know it's better than UGPA, but isn't its correlation under .4?


how helpful could statistical data within a class ever be when the range is so narrowed? some schools have their 25th-75th within 3 or 4 points of each other.


Or even 2 points. Applying to Cornell with a 166 is interesting when the 25th %ile is a 166 and the 75th %ile and median are both 168.

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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:44 pm

Veyron wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
Veyron wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Veyron is a dick. I'm 99% sure he doesn't act like this in real life.

But his comments do have a solid ring of truth. I'm sure most people don't want to be in 200k+ debt for the rest of their lives.


Why wouldn't I act like this IRL?

Although TBF, I did once tell my friend that he was fine with a mid 160's LSAT score. I guess I'm not a complete dick. Well, that or he also had above a 4.0 according to LSAC, one or the other.


This is what I mean.

I've talked to people who say they want to go to a law school with a low 160s or a high 150 score.

I don't go "Oh you shouldn't go to law school. You will be in 200k+ debt and with that LSAT score you probably won't do well anyways".

I just say "Oh good luck".

I don't encourage them but I would never say some of the stuff I say on TLS to someone IRL. Especially an acquaintance.


I think you missed the part where I said he had the numbers to get a full ride at a state flagship or admission to Berk.


So if you just met someone and you were having a casual conversation and he happened to mention he was applying to law school with lets say a 162/3.0 (just making numbers up) - you would begin to give him advice on how he shouldn't go to law school?

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gdane
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby gdane » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:46 pm

Dont quote long paragraphs...

Ive been faced with this issue and I let people know in a very respectful way that the legal profession is in straits and that they should think be well aware that going to law school doesnt automatically lead to a good job. Most people heed my advice.

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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:54 pm

gdane5 wrote:Not everyone wants to work in biglaw or even at a firm.

Lots of people want to do government work, non profit work, court work, etc etc.


Just to be fair, there other wonderful graduate programs that gets that without the same cost, time commitment or entry requirement, and you make better connections for those purposes than law school. Go to law school if you want to be a lawyer (or, to fit a career path that requires a JD/bar admission)

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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:56 pm

IAFG wrote:
gdane5 wrote:
Veyron wrote:To whoever was taking about GVMT and non-profts, you do realize that those are just as competitve as biglaw, right?

I wasnt talking about competitiveness. Im sure theyre very competitive positions.

I was pointing out that not everyone wants biglaw. Youre very narrow "biglaw is the only way" mindset doesnt apply to everyone.

Just wanted to clear that up.

that said, the credentials/snobbery still apply.


I am pretty sure my masters from Penn is going to position me better for government/non-profit work better than a Penn JD. Public sector folks have natural suspicions of lawyers.

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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:57 pm

r6_philly wrote:
gdane5 wrote:Not everyone wants to work in biglaw or even at a firm.

Lots of people want to do government work, non profit work, court work, etc etc.


Just to be fair, there other wonderful graduate programs that gets that without the same cost, time commitment or entry requirement, and you make better connections for those purposes than law school. Go to law school if you want to be a lawyer (or, to fit a career path that requires a JD/bar admission)

+1.

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IAFG
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby IAFG » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:58 pm

r6_philly wrote:
IAFG wrote:
gdane5 wrote:
Veyron wrote:To whoever was taking about GVMT and non-profts, you do realize that those are just as competitve as biglaw, right?

I wasnt talking about competitiveness. Im sure theyre very competitive positions.

I was pointing out that not everyone wants biglaw. Youre very narrow "biglaw is the only way" mindset doesnt apply to everyone.

Just wanted to clear that up.

that said, the credentials/snobbery still apply.


I am pretty sure my masters from Penn is going to position me better for government/non-profit work better than a Penn JD. Public sector folks have natural suspicions of lawyers.

i would have thought it went without saying we're talking about JD-required PI/gov't jobs

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gdane
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby gdane » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:58 pm

r6_philly wrote:
gdane5 wrote:Not everyone wants to work in biglaw or even at a firm.

Lots of people want to do government work, non profit work, court work, etc etc.


Just to be fair, there other wonderful graduate programs that gets that without the same cost, time commitment or entry requirement, and you make better connections for those purposes than law school. Go to law school if you want to be a lawyer (or, to fit a career path that requires a JD/bar admission)

Thats very true. Thats why, unlike so many people here on TLS, I know that there are other great options in case law school doesnt work out.

r6_philly
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:59 pm

gdane5 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Slightly off-topic, but how well does LSAT score indicate law school success anyway? I know it's better than UGPA, but isn't its correlation under .4?

This topics been beated to death.

I personally believe a .4 correlation is extremely weak.

Who knows.


Yes it is a weak correlation, but it is better than no correlation. If we are talking about quantitative analysis, we take the best correlation, no matter how weak it is. There simply is nothing better.

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Veyron
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby Veyron » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:00 pm

[/quote]

So if you just met someone and you were having a casual conversation and he happened to mention he was applying to law school with lets say a 162/3.0 (just making numbers up) - you would begin to give him advice on how he shouldn't go to law school?[/quote]

Are they hot?

r6_philly
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:00 pm

IAFG wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I am pretty sure my masters from Penn is going to position me better for government/non-profit work better than a Penn JD. Public sector folks have natural suspicions of lawyers.

i would have thought it went without saying we're talking about JD-required PI/gov't jobs



Which are? I think that's even smaller/harder to get than biglaw.

whymeohgodno
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Re: What is the best school for practicing law in Pennsylvania?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:02 pm

Veyron wrote:


So if you just met someone and you were having a casual conversation and he happened to mention he was applying to law school with lets say a 162/3.0 (just making numbers up) - you would begin to give him advice on how he shouldn't go to law school?[/quote]

Are they hot?[/quote]

How about an aggressive alpha dog personality male with a serious temper issue?




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