NYU @ 200k debt...how many fail to get a job to pay it off?

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pereira6
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NYU @ 200k debt...how many fail to get a job to pay it off?

Postby pereira6 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:55 pm

200k is a lot of debt, and NYU is a great school.

How easily can NYU grads find job placement that sufficiently takes care of that debt?

I plan on doing corporate law, business law, etc., so doing public service and the LRAP is not really relevant to the question.

Real simple question, and I hope to get lots of feedback so I can decide if EDing to NYU is the proper decision for me!

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: NYU @ 200k debt...how many fail to get a job to pay it off?

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:03 am

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2443758843

Those are class of 2009 numbers, which means they did OCI in 2007, BEFORE ITE. Based on those NYU placed 50% @ NLJ 250.

pereira6
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Re: NYU @ 200k debt...how many fail to get a job to pay it off?

Postby pereira6 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:10 am

Hattori Hanzo wrote:did OCI in 2007, BEFORE ITE..


Yeah, I've seen this same link posted around. Is it relevant to today's world?

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Hannibal
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Re: NYU @ 200k debt...how many fail to get a job to pay it off?

Postby Hannibal » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:00 am

Hattori Hanzo wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843

Those are class of 2009 numbers, which means they did OCI in 2007, BEFORE ITE. Based on those NYU placed 50% @ NLJ 250.


That said, that doesn't make them immune to ITE at all. No-offers were pretty rampant from what I've heard.

DeepSeaLaw
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Re: NYU @ 200k debt...how many fail to get a job to pay it off?

Postby DeepSeaLaw » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:26 am

There is a serious lack of hard data, and those NLJ charts are as good a start as any. But while the last thing I want to do is encourage anyone to confidently take on that kind of debt, keep in mind that charts like that don't reflect students who took clerkships immediately after graduating (most of whom either deferred an offer from a firm or will have very good resumes and at least one powerful and well-connected advocate in their post-clerkship job search) or went into public interest or government work, where NYU's loan repayment assistance program forgives most or all of many students' debts. A small percentage of each class also go into postgraduate fellowships in an attempt to secure academic jobs, and there are well-paying firms outside of the NLJ250. So it's not like everyone outside of that NLJ chart is screwed.

Still, anyone should think long and hard about taking on that kind of debt for any law school (I'll be attending one of HYS next year, and I'm including those schools). Even for those who do get biglaw jobs, 200K plus interest is a lot to pay off. Sure, anyone making 160K plus bonus and lockstep raises will be able to comfortably meet their monthly payments and then some, but layoffs happen and most will leave their first firm within 2-4 years, often taking a significant pay cut. Also keep in mind that most cities that pay top market rates are also very expensive: 160K is still a lot of money in NYC, especially if you are single, but it's not as much as you might think. Even with IBR, 200K is a big ol' loan.

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: NYU @ 200k debt...how many fail to get a job to pay it off?

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:01 pm

pereira6 wrote:
Hattori Hanzo wrote:did OCI in 2007, BEFORE ITE..


Yeah, I've seen this same link posted around. Is it relevant to today's world?


It's hard to tell because NYU has a reputation for PI and we don't know how much of that data reflects self selection. There are various other factors too. The problem is that law schools aren't forthcoming with accurate employment info.
On the + side, NYU has a pretty strong hold in NYC obviously so I wouldn't say it's unreasonable to assume you'll be set if you end up in the top 30-35% of the class even ITE. Things appear to be getting better too so by the time you graduate they may be back to 50%.
Is Columbia not an option for you? That should give you slightly better results.

spondee
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Re: NYU @ 200k debt...how many fail to get a job to pay it off?

Postby spondee » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:18 pm

Don't draw the conclusion from that chart that only 50% of NYU (or any of those other schools) are getting jobs. The chart ignores clerks, PI/gov, academia/fellowship, and non-NLJ firms (which aren't all TTT).

Another statistic: last year, 70% of participants of EIW received an offer. That was the worst year. Traditionally, it's in the mid-nineties. And that's only the summer OCI; it doesn't include fall OCI or mass mailings or students seeking jobs in their hometowns from firms that don't come to OCI, etc.

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: NYU @ 200k debt...how many fail to get a job to pay it off?

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:25 pm

spondee wrote:Don't draw the conclusion from that chart that only 50% of NYU (or any of those other schools) are getting jobs. The chart ignores clerks, PI/gov, academia/fellowship, and non-NLJ firms (which aren't all TTT).

Another statistic: last year, 70% of participants of EIW received an offer. That was the worst year. Traditionally, it's in the mid-nineties. And that's only the summer OCI; it doesn't include fall OCI or mass mailings or students seeking jobs in their hometowns from firms that don't come to OCI, etc.


He was asking about jobs that can sufficiently finance $200K+interest in debt so not ALL jobs are applicable.

Renzo
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Re: NYU @ 200k debt...how many fail to get a job to pay it off?

Postby Renzo » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:28 pm

You have to remember that there is debt relief at both ends of the income distribution. If you earn a lot, you pay it off. If you go into PI or gov't, the school pays your loans. The only losers are those who make a decent private sector salary, but not a larger private sector salary--they're fucked, but they are also a very small number.

spondee
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Re: NYU @ 200k debt...how many fail to get a job to pay it off?

Postby spondee » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:48 pm

Hattori Hanzo wrote:
spondee wrote:Don't draw the conclusion from that chart that only 50% of NYU (or any of those other schools) are getting jobs. The chart ignores clerks, PI/gov, academia/fellowship, and non-NLJ firms (which aren't all TTT).

Another statistic: last year, 70% of participants of EIW received an offer. That was the worst year. Traditionally, it's in the mid-nineties. And that's only the summer OCI; it doesn't include fall OCI or mass mailings or students seeking jobs in their hometowns from firms that don't come to OCI, etc.


He was asking about jobs that can sufficiently finance $200K+interest in debt so not ALL jobs are applicable.


All those other jobs are relevant in understanding what that chart does and does not show. What I'm saying is that the chart does not show that a student at NYU has only a 50% chance of landing a well-paying job. One other (more recent) statistic suggests the chance is at least 70%.




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