Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
OmbreGracieuse
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:39 pm

Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby OmbreGracieuse » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:11 pm

Is there a guide to T 3/4 schools? I wasn't able to find one on TLS.

Here is where I stand:

I took the LSAT and scored a 157/156 respectively. The first time I took it was 3 days before my surgery, the second time I had been diagnosed with cancer, but hadn't yet started chemotherapy. I do not plan to retake the LSAT a third time.

My GPA is 3.39. I am on a WAY upward trend. I had been attending an adult studies school before I transferred to the school where I got my UG; there are several classes I failed. I was dating a very abusive person who attempted to kill me, which caused me not to do so well for those few months. I have police reports for the schools that need it.

My question is this... I keep getting CAS e-mails from schools, most of which are in the T 3/4 schools. How does one now which ones are worth it? I know the debt ratio is high, and my family is currently considered below the poverty limit. I don't need a lecture on incruing money, so my questions are this:

which T 3/4 schools are worth the money?
which ones are family/child friendly?
which ones offer need-based assistance?
which ones are in *relatively* larger cities with better job prospects?

Also, are there any T 2 schools that I should consider? I recently applied to a few T 1 schools, but those are a long shot. What about Duquesne, U Miami, U Minnesota, and Forham?

Any advice would be appreciated. THANK YOU!!

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11721
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby kalvano » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:13 pm

Try PT at a decent school and transition into FT.

albanach
Posts: 1011
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby albanach » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:42 pm

Take the LSAT a third time. A few more points and things would be a lot easier.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby Grizz » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:43 pm

albanach wrote:Take the LSAT a third time. A few more points and things would be a lot easier.

User avatar
quakeroats
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:34 am

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby quakeroats » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:14 pm

I'm sure it's annoying to read comments telling you to do what you've specifically stated isn't something you want to do. However, what you should do is (1) figure out exactly what you want from law school, (2) figure out what schools will give that to you, and then (3) do what will get you into those schools or find another calling. From what I've read--and I've read a lot on the matter--the following would be good reasons to go to a school outside of the top 50 in this economy:

1. You have a job offer right now that only requires you to get a J.D. to accept it.
2. You work for a company that wants you to get a J.D. and will pay for it.
3. You're willing to work very long hours (think 70-90) doing potentially uninteresting and difficult work with no guarantee of success after law school.

Be wary of choosing option 3. From what you've mentioned, you don't seem to have the desire for it. Remember that there are thousands of ways to make a middle-class income. And most of them don't involve taking on 150k+ of debt without a reasonable chance to earn an income that justifies the outlay.

bklynav
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:33 pm

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby bklynav » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:37 pm

I hate when people automatically reply 'retake the LSAT' on this forum, but from what your describing and your grade trends, I really think you should.

User avatar
northwood
Posts: 4872
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 7:29 pm

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby northwood » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:41 pm

the question is are you cancer free, or still undergoing treatment? If you havent been given the all clear, talk to your doctor about going to school, and how your treatment will affect your performance, and how the stress will affect your treatment? I would personally put everything on hold while undergoing treatment. Health insurance is a huge priority for you right now, ( in addition to meds and being close to your team of doctors) and do you really want to jeopardize that??

if this does not apply to you, make sure you are 100% sure before you take the plunge.

User avatar
thexfactor
Posts: 1277
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:40 am

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby thexfactor » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:54 am

OmbreGracieuse wrote:Is there a guide to T 3/4 schools? I wasn't able to find one on TLS.

Here is where I stand:

I took the LSAT and scored a 157/156 respectively. The first time I took it was 3 days before my surgery, the second time I had been diagnosed with cancer, but hadn't yet started chemotherapy. I do not plan to retake the LSAT a third time.

My GPA is 3.39. I am on a WAY upward trend. I had been attending an adult studies school before I transferred to the school where I got my UG; there are several classes I failed. I was dating a very abusive person who attempted to kill me, which caused me not to do so well for those few months. I have police reports for the schools that need it.

My question is this... I keep getting CAS e-mails from schools, most of which are in the T 3/4 schools. How does one now which ones are worth it? I know the debt ratio is high, and my family is currently considered below the poverty limit. I don't need a lecture on incruing money, so my questions are this:

which T 3/4 schools are worth the money?
which ones are family/child friendly?
which ones offer need-based assistance?
which ones are in *relatively* larger cities with better job prospects?

Also, are there any T 2 schools that I should consider? I recently applied to a few T 1 schools, but those are a long shot. What about Duquesne, U Miami, U Minnesota, and Forham?

Any advice would be appreciated. THANK YOU!!


I would retake and seriously re-evaluate going to law school. Are you sure that your body can take the "rigors and pressure" of going to law school? People often say that law school kills peoples careers, but in this case it might actually physically kill you. You might want to sit out another year to rest up and retake the LSATs.

Ask yourself, do you actually have a "burning" desire to go to law school? Am i willing to take a 100-200k gamble on being able to find a job? Schools like Duquesne Umiami place about 10-15% tops in middle/biglaw firms. Job prospects are terrible right now for even people at the top of their class.

If you are just looking for a career, consider accounting. My GF is an accountant. It is less stressful (other than tax season) and anyone with a pulse gets a job after doing a masters of accounting program. No one makes "biglaw" salary, but no one starves to death either... 40-50k start with bonus.

If you really have that passion to pursue law, I would suggest that you retake the lsats. You have pretty decent softs. Don't waste it on a school like uMiami. Try Knewton LSAT prep. They have a 5point improvment or your money back guarantee.

GOOD LUCk!

User avatar
James Bond
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby James Bond » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:55 am

Guide: Don't Go

User avatar
Rocketman11
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:32 am

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby Rocketman11 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:59 am

If you're looking at T3/T4, you should honestly look at someplace you can get at LEAST a half tuition scholarship. Not sure where that is, but find a place that you'd be in the 75% range for your numbers.

Frankly I think anyone not at a T14 (and that's generous) without some kind of $ is taking a big risk.

User avatar
androstan
Posts: 2568
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby androstan » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:49 am

Why law school? PA, nursing, med tech, pharmacy, PT... just a few vocations off the top of my head where new employees are actually still in demand. As opposed to the legal sector, which is mostly contracting.

User avatar
thexfactor
Posts: 1277
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:40 am

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby thexfactor » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:14 pm

androstan wrote:Why law school? PA, nursing, med tech, pharmacy, PT... just a few vocations off the top of my head where new employees are actually still in demand. As opposed to the legal sector, which is mostly contracting.


+1
Check out accounting!

OmbreGracieuse
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:39 pm

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby OmbreGracieuse » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:07 pm

Why law? ... because it is what I want to do. :P

I plan to go to law school. I don't plan to retake the LSATs, the chemotherapy is making me WAY sick. I used the Knewton program and didn't score better. I think it is because I am so sick. I don't want to take a chance my score dives lower; I had been preptesting a few points higher, but don't want to wait til December and not do better then than I already have.

My chemo will be completely done several months before law school starts. I anticipate going into law school in good health.

I am not asking for advice on a career, simply which T 3/4 schools are worth considering. I have gotten several offers from T 2 schools which I plan to apply to, but am more interested in which T 3/4 schools are worth applying to. I am confidet I will get some form of scholarship, as that is part of what the app process goes towards.

Thanks for all of your advice!

User avatar
northwood
Posts: 4872
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 7:29 pm

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby northwood » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:23 pm

I would wait a year after your chemo is over to go. Make sure you have your health. I know you want to go to law school, and it may be a reassurance that you will recover if you go now, but please dont rush this. Law school can wait, your health cannot. Take a year off, build up your strength and dominate law school once your fully recovered.

best of luck and best wishes for a full and speedy recovery

motiontodismiss
Posts: 870
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:36 pm

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby motiontodismiss » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:33 pm

James Bond wrote:Guide: Don't Go

daydreamer
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:10 pm

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby daydreamer » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:59 pm

-
Last edited by daydreamer on Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
quakeroats
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:34 am

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby quakeroats » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:52 am

OmbreGracieuse wrote:Why law? ... because it is what I want to do. :P

I plan to go to law school. I don't plan to retake the LSATs, the chemotherapy is making me WAY sick. I used the Knewton program and didn't score better. I think it is because I am so sick. I don't want to take a chance my score dives lower; I had been preptesting a few points higher, but don't want to wait til December and not do better then than I already have.

My chemo will be completely done several months before law school starts. I anticipate going into law school in good health.

I am not asking for advice on a career, simply which T 3/4 schools are worth considering. I have gotten several offers from T 2 schools which I plan to apply to, but am more interested in which T 3/4 schools are worth applying to. I am confidet I will get some form of scholarship, as that is part of what the app process goes towards.

Thanks for all of your advice!


From what you've written, It's pretty clear that you haven't really considered this and that you're making a mistake. Take a look at some of these blogs written by people who attended T3 and T4 schools:

http://T14 Paradise.blogspot.com/
http://subprimejd.blogspot.com/

What you'll notice is that even graduates in the top 50 are having a very difficult time finding employment. Those outside of the top 50 are mostly unemployed or contract and PI attorneys.

User avatar
James Bond
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby James Bond » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:41 am

motiontodismiss wrote:
James Bond wrote:Guide: Don't Go


I agree

User avatar
FuManChusco
Posts: 1217
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:56 pm

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby FuManChusco » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:07 pm

James Bond wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:
James Bond wrote:Guide: Don't Go


I agree


Story checks out.

whymeohgodno
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:38 am

James Bond wrote:Guide: Don't Go

impressivekowalski
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:44 pm

Re: Guide to T 3/4 Schools?

Postby impressivekowalski » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:40 am

OP,
I am sorry to hear about all of the hurdles you have had to make it over during the past few years. If you can make it through all of that and the criticism on this board, I am confident you can make it through law school. Regardless, nobody on this forum is going to tell you that any T 3/4 law school is "worth it," almost certainly because the post-grad employment prospects and potential salary don't seem to make attending these school a wise financial investment. If (and probably ONLY IF), however, you really want to pursue a legal career because of personal passion or interest beyond simply increasing your earning potential, then by all means go to law school....... but for goodness sake try to take on as little debt as possible in the process. Outside of what I am sure are a few exceptions (although none come to mind) there is very little to distinguish these school from one another in terms of academic quality or career potential; therefore, I am compelled to give you the "standard response:" Isolate the region you want to work in after law school and go to whichever school in that region offers you the most money. I wish I could be more helpful, but it probably is just that simple. Best of luck!




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests