Michigan State Forum

[Rocketman11]

Sounds like a lot of people who go to MSU are not happy with their decision. Take it for what it's worth.

I don't go there so I can't speak, but I can point to respected community members who go to MSU and are happy with the decision. Not sure how many "a lot" is.. my guess is 2 people.

[TruHoosier]

Sounds like a lot of people who go to MSU are not happy with their decision. Take it for what it's worth.

I don't go there so I can't speak, but I can point to respected community members who go to MSU and are happy with the decision. Not sure how many "a lot" is.. my guess is 2 people.

Oh yeah, are you reading my PMs when you're not busy posting on TLS 16 times a day?

[Rocketman11]

Sounds like a lot of people who go to MSU are not happy with their decision. Take it for what it's worth.

I don't go there so I can't speak, but I can point to respected community members who go to MSU and are happy with the decision. Not sure how many "a lot" is.. my guess is 2 people.

Oh yeah, are you reading my PMs when you're not busy posting on TLS 16 times a day?

No, but:

1) I was in your position last cycle and seriously considering MSU. Somehow I ended up with 0 PMs and all conversation took place in the thread of several pages. I think one person, GoState, was the only militantly anti-MSU person in there. I am shocked that this cycle it's so much more controversial that you are attracting an inbox full of current or past MSU Law students who still roam around TLS. After all, this website mostly attracts people who are 0Ls or shooting for top schools.

2) Being from Michigan and going to UG there as well, I have a substantial number of friends at MSU law. Most are now 2Ls and they all still seem happy with their decision. Thats not to say there aren't people there who are unhappy, of course, but nonetheless influences my perception.

Based on those two things, yes I'm skeptical of your vague forewarning against MSU Law being a viable choice for many people.

We'll just have to disagree.

[TruHoosier]

Sounds like a lot of people who go to MSU are not happy with their decision. Take it for what it's worth.

I don't go there so I can't speak, but I can point to respected community members who go to MSU and are happy with the decision. Not sure how many "a lot" is.. my guess is 2 people.

Oh yeah, are you reading my PMs when you're not busy posting on TLS 16 times a day?

No, but:

1) I was in your position last cycle and seriously considering MSU. Somehow I ended up with 0 PMs and all conversation took place in the thread of several pages. I think one person, GoState, was the only militantly anti-MSU person in there. I am shocked that this cycle it's so much more controversial that you are attracting an inbox full of current or past MSU Law students who still roam around TLS. After all, this website mostly attracts people who are 0Ls or shooting for top schools.

2) Being from Michigan and going to UG there as well, I have a substantial number of friends at MSU law. Most are now 2Ls and they all still seem happy with their decision. Thats not to say there aren't people there who are unhappy, of course, but nonetheless influences my perception.

Based on those two things, yes I'm skeptical of your vague forewarning against MSU Law being a viable choice for many people.

We'll just have to disagree.

In hindsight, I guess it is a poor choice of words to say that "a lot of people" aren't happy with their choice to attend MSU.

I was mostly trying to convey that I was pretty surprised by the number of people who went out of their way to message me to warn me against attending MSU. I got messages from five different people - two of them had anecdotes about friends they knew who went there who were now struggling to get the state law jobs that they thought they'd have waiting for them when they graduated. As always, I think it's best to take everyone's advice with a grain of salt until you've really rolled your sleeves up and done your own research.

I don't mean to be a dick. I just get sick of people's snarky attitudes on here.

[thexfactor]

Sounds like a lot of people who go to MSU are not happy with their decision. Take it for what it's worth.

I don't go there so I can't speak, but I can point to respected community members who go to MSU and are happy with the decision. Not sure how many "a lot" is.. my guess is 2 people.

really? who?

Also you mentioned friends that are happy with their decision to go to MSU, are they in the top 5%?

[ZachOda]

I'm going to jump in here with a question.
I just got accepted to MSU on a full scholarship. It looks enticing, especially considering I will have 70k in UG debts to worry about already. So my question is this: If you guys were accepted with a full scholarship, as opposed to lets say.... a mid T1, where you would be forced to take out even more loans, which would you choose and why?

[BarbellDreams]

Depends on the mid T1. I would go to Fordham sticker over MSU fullride UNLESS I wanted to practice in Michigan. I would NOT to go UNC sticker over MSU fullride.

[thexfactor]

Depends on the mid T1. I would go to Fordham sticker over MSU fullride UNLESS I wanted to practice in Michigan. I would NOT to go UNC sticker over MSU fullride.

really? UNC tuition is very low. They have decent rep on the east coast.
I agree with fordham sticker over MSU. Even if i wanted to practice in Michigan, I would rather go to ND than MSU full scholarship. ND has reallygood reputation in the great lakes region, including michigan.

[BarbellDreams]

Depends on the mid T1. I would go to Fordham sticker over MSU fullride UNLESS I wanted to practice in Michigan. I would NOT to go UNC sticker over MSU fullride.

really? UNC tuition is very low. They have decent rep on the east coast.
I agree with fordham sticker over MSU. Even if i wanted to practice in Michigan, I would rather go to ND than MSU full scholarship. ND has reallygood reputation in the great lakes region, including michigan.

UNC instate tuition is a lot different than out of state tuition. In state sure, I take them at sticker. Also, I dont see a reason in going to Fordham sticker if you are 100% sure you wanna practice in Michigan and have a fullride from MSU.

[thexfactor]

Depends on the mid T1. I would go to Fordham sticker over MSU fullride UNLESS I wanted to practice in Michigan. I would NOT to go UNC sticker over MSU fullride.

really? UNC tuition is very low. They have decent rep on the east coast.
I agree with fordham sticker over MSU. Even if i wanted to practice in Michigan, I would rather go to ND than MSU full scholarship. ND has reallygood reputation in the great lakes region, including michigan.

UNC instate tuition is a lot different than out of state tuition. In state sure, I take them at sticker. Also, I dont see a reason in going to Fordham sticker if you are 100% sure you wanna practice in Michigan and have a fullride from MSU.

You can get instate after a while. I think out of state is 30k.

I highly doubt MSU is doing well right now. Most michigan firms are still doing poorly. Some firms arent even going to MSU for recruiting anymore. Check out Miller Canfield's interns from last summer. Lowest school they recruited from is U of M.
Why would they go to MSU when they can just go to Mich and get michigan grads who want to stay in state.

You can always apply to mich firms from UNC if you have ties.

[ZachOda]

I'm an MA resident, so I wouldn't be getting in-state anywhere as it stands. No legal ties to any market, so I'm willing to move anywhere

[thexfactor]

I'm an MA resident, so I wouldn't be getting in-state anywhere as it stands. No legal ties to any market, so I'm willing to move anywhere

dont go to MSU, the legal market is terrible. law firms in cities like St. Louis, Cleveland and Detroit all look for ties to the area, or at least the midwest.

[ZachOda]

Even if I'm willing to stay in the Midwest?

What kind of ties would I need?

[Rocketman11]

I don't go there so I can't speak, but I can point to respected community members who go to MSU and are happy with the decision. Not sure how many "a lot" is.. my guess is 2 people.

really? who?

jne381 for starters. I'd have to rifle through my inbox to find more, but generally just check for past MSU threads.

Also you mentioned friends that are happy with their decision to go to MSU, are they in the top 5%?

I do not know, but I know most are going on full tuition schollys. Probably helps.

[thexfactor]

Even if I'm willing to stay in the Midwest?

What kind of ties would I need?

Im just saying it might be a bad idea to choose Michigan. Check Miller Canfield's summer interns. The worst school they hired from was University of Michigan. 1 from harvard 1 from nyu and i think 4 from mich. Miller is the biggest law firm in Michigan and they only hired 6. butzel long is a financial mess right now...

I spoke to a friend who works at a big firm in Michigan and graduated from a T3 like MSU. He was hired during the boom. He told me that in this economy, firms aren't even considering MSU/UD/Toledo grads because they can get a good number of U of M grads that want to stay in the Detroit area.


Try Pittsburgh or Cleveland's market. They are a lot better.

[ZachOda]

I'm honestly not interested in BigLaw as it stands. But in terms of ties, do you mean family around the area or just knowing lawyers practicing in the Midwest? I appreciate the advice xFactor

[thexfactor]

Even if I'm willing to stay in the Midwest?

What kind of ties would I need?

just saw your numbers. Upitt/Case will prob give you close to full scholarship. Go there instead if you really want to be debt free.

Emory/UIUC will prob give you some money too. I might consider going to Emory/UIUC with a small 10k scholarship.

[thexfactor]

I'm honestly not interested in BigLaw as it stands. But in terms of ties, do you mean family around the area or just knowing lawyers practicing in the Midwest? I appreciate the advice xFactor

Being from the area in terms of either growing up there or having family. The general "from the midwest" is prob enough where it wouldn't hurt you. However, having ties to the area is a bigger bonus. They are afraid that you will leave after a couple of years. I went through the recruiting process in the Midwest.

Just be careful in Michigan. It's really tough.

[ZachOda]

Huge help xfactor, thanks

[BarbellDreams]

I guess I should have qualified my answer with go to MSU if you wanna stay in MI for sure AND you dont wanna do firm work for sure. For something like PI sticker is rough. If you want firm work I would likely pay sticker at the highest ranked T1 you could get proportioned to the size of market it is in (This means that I would rather go to Fordham than Iowa or Indiana simply because the NYC market is much much better than anywhere those schools have substantial reach without contacts.)

Also, I know I am using Fordham a lot as an example. It just seems like a good example of a mid T1 which really places pretty damn well. I dont go there, didnt apply there, and have no ties to that school or that market. I wanted to get that out there in case I sound biased.

[northwood]

i dont understand why everyone on this site only looks at rankings. if you have a specific region you want to work in, apply there and go to the most cost effective choice you get. If you dont have a region in particular, then you need to start figuring out where you want to work, then go. 20 years ago, you could go almost anywhere. Today, you really need to know where( region wise) you want to be after school before you apply.

if you get a fulll scholly at MSU, like Michigan, then go. If you get a full scholly at MSU, but want colorado or somewhere else, turn it down. Any school not in the top handful should be considerded regional schools ( this includes some of the T14s) for the time being

[shortsnscruffs]

First post on TLS, so here goes...

just got in at MSU with 75% scholly. i am debt-averse to a certain extent, and really want to limit my debt to less than $80K. which is really making me give MSU a serious thought, even though i am not really planning on staying in michigan...

i have also applied to 3 schools in northern CA because what i am really hoping to do is land a government job (or some legal liaison between industry and gov't) in CA 4-5 years after graduating from law school... i know, i know, why apply to MSU when you want to stay in cali anyway, right? well, it was a last minute decision, and the fee was waived and all so i figure it wouldn't hurt.

i have not heard from the CA schools yet so i really have nothing in hand to compare against the MSU offer, but am now worried that going to MSU will wreck my chances in CA. based on what i've read on this thread, seems like that's the case...

[northwood]

going to msu will seriously hurt your chances right out of school in california, unless you do all of your internships and network like crazy in california. With that said, its still going to be very hard. Wherever you go to school, plan on living in that region for up to 5 years after graduation to get experience. Once you have some real experience, you can move around. After some time out of law school, firms dont care as much as to where you went, they want to see your track record, and references from other attorney's

hope this helps. congrats on the 75% scholly!

[BarbellDreams]

CA market is beyond oversaturated and on top of the 7 or so CA schools that outrank you the entire T-14 go to CA. If you are 100% sure you wanna go back to CA, I would strongly advise against MSU. Just my .02.

[Sentry]

One of my friend's sister graduated from MSU law in 09. She still doesn't have a job.