YHSCCN Differences

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AztecaRex
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YHSCCN Differences

Postby AztecaRex » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:26 am

Hi guys,

For anyone who currently attends Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, Columbia, or New York I'd just like to know what made you decide on that particular school. They are all of course highly ranked schools, but what really set one apart for you guys? If anyone is applying to one of these schools and is dead-set on one of them, why that particular school?

Renzo
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby Renzo » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:57 am

Didn't apply to Y or S, didn't get in to H. Hated Chicago when I visited, and preferred NYC anyways. That put NYU and CLS in a battle royale cagefight deathmatch.

CLS students seemed to be the kind of people that would pick an Ivy League school over one that wasn't, and for me that was a big turnoff. Plus, their building looks like a broken toaster. I liked NYU's location, physical plant, and student body the best of any school I visited (except Michigan, actually, but my SO vetoed Ann Arbor).

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CGI Fridays
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby CGI Fridays » Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:02 am

Um... if you get into Yale, go. Doors, windows etc. I'll leave the more substantive input to others.

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vanwinkle
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:06 am

CGI Fridays wrote:Um... if you get into Yale, go. Doors, windows etc. I'll leave the more substantive input to others.

Yale is Yale. It's a beautiful campus, it's prestigious as hell, you're as insulated as possible from the effects of the economy as possible, it's a much smaller school so you can get to know everyone there more easily, and it's a name that stays on your resume the rest of your life.

I transferred up, applied to Harvard and Yale. Went to Harvard because they accepted me. If Yale took me I'd be in New Haven right now.

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Ship87
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby Ship87 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:37 am

I'm applying and I'm looking mainly at Columbia and NYU because of New York. If accepted at HYS I would probably go because of the excellent name, but I'm ready to spend the next few years of my life in a large city after living in rural PA for college. I would also go to Chicago or Penn because I think Philly is a great city and I have heard many good things about Chicago. So for me, the location its self is the biggest factor. I'm sure that different schools have different kinds of student bodies through self-selection, but I think you can make friends and enjoy your self at any school situated in a large city.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby BioEBear2010 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:53 am

Turned down Yale (and a few others) for Stanford. Lots of reasons for my choice, and I know many others here at SLS that made the same (tough) decision.

At the YHS level, the decision really should come down to fit. You will get an amazing job graduating from any of the three. In fact, you will likely get an incredible job graduating from CCN (the odds are just slightly lower).

Anyway, SLS has an amazing IP faculty, and is a lot more focused on producing quality lawyers (as opposed to legal scholars). California (even Palo Alto) beats the hell out of New Haven. And Dean Kramer is the best.

sophie316
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby sophie316 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:41 pm

I always knew I wanted NYU. Wanted to be in NYC(SO here, friends here, been here 6+ years), everyone I knew that was at/had gone to NYU loved it, they had a slightly more PI focus and the students just seemed generally more tolerable that CLS. I also did undergrad at Columbia and figured a change wouldn't be a bad thing. I didn't even apply to Yale and I withdrew from H before they gave me a response after I got $$ from NYU, although they kindly sent me a rejection 5 days later regardless.

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sophia.olive
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby sophia.olive » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:43 pm

y------h---s--c-cn---mvp

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fugitivejammer
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby fugitivejammer » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:11 am

sophia.olive wrote:y--s--h--c-cn---mvp


fixed it

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St.Remy
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby St.Remy » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:31 am

fugitivejammer wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:y--h--s--c-cn---mvp


fixed it


Fixed it back.

Seriously though, there are legit arguments for preferring Harvard over Stanford or vice-verse, there isn't a wrong answer. If you find yourself choosing between the two then you're having a good life so far.

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invisiblesun
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby invisiblesun » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:36 am

Uh oh...I see a Harvard v. Stanford thread brewing here...

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sophia.olive
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby sophia.olive » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:40 am

Is stanford a public school like berk?

university of california stanford

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invisiblesun
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby invisiblesun » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:18 am

Don't see a need for public school bashing...but that being said, only one of the schools mentioned by OP made the mistake of putting a T in its name....and that would be sTTTanford

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sophia.olive
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby sophia.olive » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:32 am

invisiblesun wrote:Don't see a need for public school bashing...but that being said, only one of the schools mentioned by OP made the mistake of putting a T in its name....and that would be sTTTanford

I just have nothing against stanford apart from being in close proximity to a public school that is declining in the rankings?

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JG Hall
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby JG Hall » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:24 am

Renzo wrote:CLS students seemed to be the kind of people that would pick an Ivy League school over one that wasn't, and for me that was a big turnoff.

And NYU seemed like the kind of place where students made sweeping generalizations with little to no anecdotal evidence to back it up.

Renzo
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby Renzo » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:00 am

JG Hall wrote:
Renzo wrote:CLS students seemed to be the kind of people that would pick an Ivy League school over one that wasn't, and for me that was a big turnoff.

And NYU seemed like the kind of place where students made sweeping generalizations with little to no anecdotal evidence to back it up.


My anecdote is that I visited twice when picking between those schools, and I've had occasion to rub elbows with CLS students at social events 8 or 10 times since school started. Just like my classmates, some of them were fun, some were obnoxious, but as a trend I still feel like there is a higher concentration of shameless prestige-whores among the CLS students than NYU.

Now, I'm the first to admit that many of my classmates have a complex about CLS and NYU being "peers," and get all kinds of defensive when you suggest that until relatively recently CLS was clearly a better school, and that it still maintains a bit of a prestige advantage even though the gap has narrowed over recent years. But I find this silly jealous defensiveness less annoying than silly smug elitism.

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JG Hall
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby JG Hall » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:30 pm

Renzo wrote:
JG Hall wrote:
Renzo wrote:CLS students seemed to be the kind of people that would pick an Ivy League school over one that wasn't, and for me that was a big turnoff.

And NYU seemed like the kind of place where students made sweeping generalizations with little to no anecdotal evidence to back it up.


My anecdote is that I visited twice when picking between those schools, and I've had occasion to rub elbows with CLS students at social events 8 or 10 times since school started. Just like my classmates, some of them were fun, some were obnoxious, but as a trend I still feel like there is a higher concentration of shameless prestige-whores among the CLS students than NYU.

Now, I'm the first to admit that many of my classmates have a complex about CLS and NYU being "peers," and get all kinds of defensive when you suggest that until relatively recently CLS was clearly a better school, and that it still maintains a bit of a prestige advantage even though the gap has narrowed over recent years. But I find this silly jealous defensiveness less annoying than silly smug elitism.

We may be smug elitists, but not for the sake of the lulz. Yes, we all chose Columbia over NYU. But did we do it for the Ivy Leagues? Or did we do it because we were all aspiring biglaw hookers? When we applied, all the available numbers said that CLS was outpacing every other school in terms of v100 and v10 placement. So I don't think we did it solely for the Q-factor. I think we're here for what selling power that comes with the brand name. If there is a connection between our "smug elitism" and the CLS student body, then it's because we're wannabe-Partner Emeritus-biglaw-gunner-douches, not blatant prestige-whores.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:38 pm

i like the post that said it comes down to fit...and location can be a big part of that

im not a huge fan of NYC, and HLS having a less competitive atmosphere [due to the grading system] (relative to CCN) is a plus when i compared H to CN.

YLS is of course Yale, so i still believe it is a better school options-wise than any other law school. no idea how it feels to go there, however lol. SLS seems cool, and if i were willing to go to Cali again, i would have applied and seriously considered HLS v. SLS...but since i wanted a degree that was more portable in the south (as I will be returning to TX), and for personal reasons did not prefer Cali, HLS was an obvious choice. it has been a great fit for me so far -- but once again, it really depends on the person. hard to really go wrong w/ YHSCCN.

imo, internationally, HLS brand name trumps YLS easy.

liljerry
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby liljerry » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:57 pm

I picked UChicago over NYU and Columbia and couldn't be happier.

Facilities are amazing (especially compared with columbia), professors are engaging and the kids are extremely normal, uncompetitive, nice and the girls are attractive.

That being said, if you love big city life - UChicago is a lot different than CN. Hyde Park is more like a suburb of Chicago than the actual city. Advantage is that you can live anywhere in Chicago near lake shore drive (wrigleyville, lincoln park) and make it to class in 20 minutes - and if you like boating, golf etc. it's pretty easy to get away on the weekends. But if you need big city all the time then NYU or Col are definitely places for you.

And I'm sorry columbia kids, but believing Columbia has more prestige than UC is an illusion. You're only one spot above in the rankings and uc's med school/bus school/undergrad are better.

As for HYS, obviously those are better and baring serious money, if you get in you should go.

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JG Hall
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby JG Hall » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:11 pm

liljerry wrote:And I'm sorry columbia kids, but believing Columbia has more prestige than UC is an illusion. You're only one spot above in the rankings and uc's med school/bus school/undergradare better.

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invisiblesun
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby invisiblesun » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:02 am

JG Hall wrote:
liljerry wrote:And I'm sorry columbia kids, but believing Columbia has more prestige than UC is an illusion. You're only one spot above in the rankings and uc's med school/bus school/undergradare better.

TBF, I have to agree with JG in that Columbia has more prestige than Chicago, and if you're talking about layperson prestige, it's no contest.

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fugitivejammer
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby fugitivejammer » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:34 am

invisiblesun wrote:
JG Hall wrote:
liljerry wrote:And I'm sorry columbia kids, but believing Columbia has more prestige than UC is an illusion. You're only one spot above in the rankings and uc's med school/bus school/undergradare better.

TBF, I have to agree with JG in that Columbia has more prestige than Chicago, and if you're talking about layperson prestige, it's no contest.



in the midwest (probably only the midwest...) U of Chi >>>>>> Columbia in prestige, but that's prolly to be expected.

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BruceWayne
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby BruceWayne » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:03 pm

I really don't see why TLS likes to group Columbia, Chicago, and NYU with HYS. The interesting thing is that the only top 14 subdivision that you ever hear about in real life conversation is the HYS group. This whole "top t6" "MVP" "lower top 14" etc. thing is essentially just TLS vernacular. There's a reason for this; HYS offer opportunities that are considerably different than all of the schools behind them in a legion of different areas. This is particularly true for jobs other than NYC big law. I really don't know how you can group CCN with HYS at all for anything outside of NYC big law. It really seems like your grades and desired work location are what makes the difference between top 14 schools that aren't HYS. Even with top grades at "CCN" it seems like the opportunities are just different than those at HYS. The clerkship placement difference along with the alumni in high ranking positions really highlights the difference.

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vanwinkle
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:09 pm

BruceWayne wrote:I really don't see why TLS likes to group Columbia, Chicago, and NYU with HYS. The interesting thing is that the only top 14 subdivision that you ever hear about in real life conversation is the HYS group. This whole "top t6" "MVP" "lower top 14" etc. thing is essentially just TLS vernacular. There's a reason for this; HYS offer opportunities that are considerably different than all of the schools behind them in a legion of different areas. This is particularly true for jobs other than NYC big law. I really don't know how you can group CCN with HYS at all for anything outside of NYC big law. It really seems like your grades and desired work location are what makes the difference between top 14 schools that aren't HYS. Even with top grades at "CCN" it seems like the opportunities are just different than those at HYS. The clerkship placement difference along with the alumni in high ranking positions really highlights the difference.

There are reasons for the breaks, and yes, the opportunities at CCN are different than those at HYS. Clerkship and alumni placement drop off significantly, but they're still better odds than at any of the lower T14. Also, as you noted yourself, if you want NYC biglaw you're advantaged to going to CCN over the lower T14.

The tiers are noted on TLS because there are real differences, fine enough to not matter in a lot of circumstances, but important enough to matter to someone making an actual hard decision. In reality it plays out something like this:

HYS >>>>> CCN >> BMVP > DCG >>> Everyone else

Yeah, it's a bigger difference between HYS and CCN than elsewhere in the T14, but that doesn't mean there aren't any differences otherwise. In some situations the differences below HYS are so small that all you need to know is HYS >>>>> rest of T14, but not everything is that simple.

Renzo
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Re: YHSCCN Differences

Postby Renzo » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:11 pm

BruceWayne wrote:I really don't see why TLS likes to group Columbia, Chicago, and NYU with HYS. The interesting thing is that the only top 14 subdivision that you ever hear about in real life conversation is the HYS group. This whole "top t6" "MVP" "lower top 14" etc. thing is essentially just TLS vernacular. There's a reason for this; HYS offer opportunities that are considerably different than all of the schools behind them in a legion of different areas. This is particularly true for jobs other than NYC big law. I really don't know how you can group CCN with HYS at all for anything outside of NYC big law. It really seems like your grades and desired work location are what makes the difference between top 14 schools that aren't HYS. Even with top grades at "CCN" it seems like the opportunities are just different than those at HYS. The clerkship placement difference along with the alumni in high ranking positions really highlights the difference.


Here's the difference: 75-80% Biglaw placement last year from CLS/NYU. Whatever haterade you've been drinking surely can't make you blind to the difference between this and other T14 schools.




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