Schools & NYC Placement Forum

miobrien · Post by **miobrien** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Lock if this is an over-asked question, or if the question is inherently silly. Perhaps I'm completely
out-of-touch with this process.

Anyway, I'm currently in graduate school in Boston. I grew up in NY and I'm already certain I want to practice in NYC after law school. I would probably also want to work during the summers in NYC.

Throughout the top 30, what schools have the best placements in NYC? Now of course the easy answer is, I guess, the better the school, the better your chances of getting NYC placement. But my stats are unfortunately not in the range of Columbia and NYU at the moment. So the Top 6 is far-fetched. If I can get my LSAT score up, that would be great.

How are Cornell's placements in NYC compared with the rest of the Top 14? How are Fordham's placements compared to BU/BC, and other schools in the latter half of the Top 30? Would it make sense to go to Fordham over other schools in the latter half of the Top 30?

Thanks for your help.

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:56 pm

The rankings/grouping as you hear them on TLS are basically totally NYC driven, so those would hold true for your question.

Veyron · Post by **Veyron** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:00 pm

Cornell places a bit better then DNG in NYC. Fordham places better than BU/BC.

tourdeforcex · Post by **tourdeforcex** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:01 pm

i went to UG in Boston. it's getting cold up there yeah? haha

for your question regarding best placements in NYC, you have provided the answer i would have given. the better the school, the better the chances. as for cornell, i think cornell's placement in NYC is strong.

this might be helpful for you: Choosing a School in the New York Market http://www.top-law-schools.com/choosing ... in-ny.html

and finally, you bring up the ultimate BU/BC vs Fordham question. there are multiple threads on TLS about this. here is one that i found: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=70200

to boil it down from what i know, if you are 100% sure you want to work in NYC, and you are choosing between BU/BC vs Fordham, chose fordham. they have strong alumni connections and NYC is the market they funnel into. if you want to read more into it, check out the threads on TLS, next go to the fordham law .edu site to read up on placement, then check BU and BC.

hope this helps.

quakeroats · Post by **quakeroats** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:02 pm

HYSCCN...Duke/Penn...UVA...Cornell/GULC/Northwestern...Michigan/Berkeley

quakeroats · Post by **quakeroats** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:03 pm

Veyron wrote:Cornell places a bit better then DNG in NYC. Fordham places better than BU/BC.

You've confused quality and quantity.

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:06 pm

quakeroats wrote:
Veyron wrote:Cornell places a bit better then DNG in NYC. Fordham places better than BU/BC.
You've confused quality and quantity.

A lot of people are doing that lately. There's this new trend on here of considering the schools that send the most grads to NYC as the schools with the best placement. You're wasting your breath trying to explain the fact that at some schools (UVA, Michigan, Berkeley, Stanford) most of the students don't have NYC as their first choice, but for those that do they do just as well or better than the rest of the top 14.

Veyron · Post by **Veyron** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:06 pm

quakeroats wrote:HYSCCN...Duke/Penn...UVA...Cornell/GULC/Northwestern...Michigan/Berkeley

Lolwut? Duke and Penn aren't even close in NYC.

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:09 pm

Veyron wrote:
quakeroats wrote:HYSCCN...Duke/Penn...UVA...Cornell/GULC/Northwestern...Michigan/Berkeley
Lolwut? Duke and Penn aren't even close in NYC.

Honestly, if you're going by TLS' favorite narrow placement metric (placement into the big NYC Vault firms) they are basically dead even.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

The only schools that blow Duke out of the water for NYC are HYS CCN. The only reason why it's somewhat legitimate to group Duke below Michigan, UVA, Penn, etc. is their clerkship placement and reputation with the judicial community--and that's slowly improving. For your average Penn or Duke grad, the reputation difference between the schools just doesn't matter.

r6_philly · Post by **r6_philly** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:10 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Veyron wrote:
quakeroats wrote:HYSCCN...Duke/Penn...UVA...Cornell/GULC/Northwestern...Michigan/Berkeley
Lolwut? Duke and Penn aren't even close in NYC.
Honestly, if you're going by TLS' favorite narrow placement metric (placement into the big NYC Vault firms) they are basically dead even.

per capita?

Veyron · Post by **Veyron** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:13 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Veyron wrote:
quakeroats wrote:HYSCCN...Duke/Penn...UVA...Cornell/GULC/Northwestern...Michigan/Berkeley
Lolwut? Duke and Penn aren't even close in NYC.
Honestly, if you're going by TLS' favorite narrow placement metric (placement into the big NYC Vault firms) they are basically dead even.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

This is so stupid, there are 100V firms and another 150 NLJ250. WLRC (and I think CSM) don't even recruit at Dook. For the very competitive firms, perhaps the top 10% of the class is looked at similarly at both schools, but I would much rather be median at Penn aiming for NYC than at D.

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:18 pm

Veyron wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
Veyron wrote:
quakeroats wrote:HYSCCN...Duke/Penn...UVA...Cornell/GULC/Northwestern...Michigan/Berkeley
Lolwut? Duke and Penn aren't even close in NYC.
Honestly, if you're going by TLS' favorite narrow placement metric (placement into the big NYC Vault firms) they are basically dead even.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml
This is so stupid, there are 100V firms and another 150 NLJ250. WLRC (and I think CSM) don't even recruit at Dook. For the very competitive firms, perhaps the top 10% of the class is looked at similarly at both schools, but I would much rather be median at Penn aiming for NYC than at D.

http://www.cravath.com/interviewschedule/
http://www.cravath.com/lawyers/list.asp ... d1cf6f7e5b
--LinkRemoved--

Keep in mind that Duke is smaller than Penn. People need to realize that a lot of this slicing and dicing of schools' placement that we do on TLS is just based on our prestige/US News obsession.

irishman86 · Post by **irishman86** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:22 pm

quakeroats wrote:HYSCCN...Duke/Penn...UVA...Cornell/GULC/Northwestern...Michigan/Berkeley

Aren't you a 0L?

This isn't accurate at all.

I go to Mich and we had the plurality of our firms at OCI from NYC. Accessibility to firms during OCI is a huge deal because mass mailing doesn't work for most.

I'd say it's HYSCN....C...Penn...Mich/UVA...Cornell/Duke...Northwestern/GULC....Berkeley. (Not sure about Chicago actually, seems like they did a lot worse this year in NY.)

Veyron · Post by **Veyron** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:23 pm

^ Hire people from =/= recruit at. Recruit at means OCI. Also, I think you missed my larger point here about the 230 biglaw firms not on TLS's years old list.

quakeroats · Post by **quakeroats** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:25 pm

r6_philly wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
Veyron wrote:
quakeroats wrote:HYSCCN...Duke/Penn...UVA...Cornell/GULC/Northwestern...Michigan/Berkeley
Lolwut? Duke and Penn aren't even close in NYC.
Honestly, if you're going by TLS' favorite narrow placement metric (placement into the big NYC Vault firms) they are basically dead even.
per capita?

Yes. For example, roughly twice as many Duke students end up in NYC V10s relative to Michigan when controlling for class size. While these two work very well for comparison (both send a plurality of their students to NYC, both are outside of major markets, both are ranked similarly, etc.), you can do this across the top schools and get roughly the same picture. I'd make the case that V10 NYC placement is a good all-purpose metric for judging one school to the next unless you have a very specialized interest. Article III Clerkships follow the same basic trend:

YHS...Duke/Chicago/Penn...UVA/Columbia...Northwestern/Michigan/NYU/Cornell

quakeroats · Post by **quakeroats** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:26 pm

Veyron wrote:
Honestly, if you're going by TLS' favorite narrow placement metric (placement into the big NYC Vault firms) they are basically dead even.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

This is so stupid, there are 100V firms and another 150 NLJ250. WLRC (and I think CSM) don't even recruit at Dook. For the very competitive firms, perhaps the top 10% of the class is looked at similarly at both schools, but I would much rather be median at Penn aiming for NYC than at D.

http://www.cravath.com/interviewschedule/
http://www.cravath.com/lawyers/list.asp ... d1cf6f7e5b
--LinkRemoved--

Keep in mind that Duke is smaller than Penn. People need to realize that a lot of this slicing and dicing of schools' placement that we do on TLS is just based on our prestige/US News obsession.
Hire people from =/= recruit at. Recruit at means OCI.

What is a WLRC?

irishman86 · Post by **irishman86** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:26 pm

quakeroats wrote: Yes. For example, roughly twice as many Duke students end up in NYC V10s relative to Michigan when controlling for class size. While these two work very well for comparison (both send a plurality of their students to NYC, both are outside of major markets, both are ranked similarly, etc.), you can do this across the top schools and get roughly the same picture. I'd make the case that V10 NYC placement is a good all-purpose metric for judging one school to the next unless you have a very specialized interest. Article III Clerkships follow the same basic trend:

YHS...Duke/Chicago/Penn...UVA/Columbia...Northwestern/Michigan/NYU/Cornell

What an idiot 1L/0L.

V10 placement is not an accurate all-purpose metric for judging NYC placement.

Also, no, you are not getting v10.

Veyron · Post by **Veyron** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:28 pm

quakeroats wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Honestly, if you're going by TLS' favorite narrow placement metric (placement into the big NYC Vault firms) they are basically dead even.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

This is so stupid, there are 100V firms and another 150 NLJ250. WLRC (and I think CSM) don't even recruit at Dook. For the very competitive firms, perhaps the top 10% of the class is looked at similarly at both schools, but I would much rather be median at Penn aiming for NYC than at D.

http://www.cravath.com/interviewschedule/
http://www.cravath.com/lawyers/list.asp ... d1cf6f7e5b
--LinkRemoved--

Keep in mind that Duke is smaller than Penn. People need to realize that a lot of this slicing and dicing of schools' placement that we do on TLS is just based on our prestige/US News obsession.
Hire people from =/= recruit at. Recruit at means OCI.

What is a WLRC?

Pretty sure you shouldn't be dispensing advice if you don't know what WLRC is.

quakeroats · Post by **quakeroats** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:28 pm

irishman86 wrote:
quakeroats wrote: Yes. For example, roughly twice as many Duke students end up in NYC V10s relative to Michigan when controlling for class size. While these two work very well for comparison (both send a plurality of their students to NYC, both are outside of major markets, both are ranked similarly, etc.), you can do this across the top schools and get roughly the same picture. I'd make the case that V10 NYC placement is a good all-purpose metric for judging one school to the next unless you have a very specialized interest. Article III Clerkships follow the same basic trend:

YHS...Duke/Chicago/Penn...UVA/Columbia...Northwestern/Michigan/NYU/Cornell
What an idiot 1L/0L.

V10 placement is not an accurate all-purpose metric for judging NYC placement.

Also, no, you are not getting v10.

Any data with that opinion?

lawschoollll · Post by **lawschoollll** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:31 pm

Veyron wrote:This is so stupid, there are 100V firms and another 150 NLJ250. WLRC (and I think CSM) don't even recruit at Dook. For the very competitive firms, perhaps the top 10% of the class is looked at similarly at both schools, but I would much rather be median at Penn aiming for NYC than at D.

http://www.cravath.com/interviewschedule/

You're a legitimately horrible poster. And it's WLRK. hth

quakeroats · Post by **quakeroats** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:32 pm

Veyron wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Honestly, if you're going by TLS' favorite narrow placement metric (placement into the big NYC Vault firms) they are basically dead even.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

This is so stupid, there are 100V firms and another 150 NLJ250. WLRC (and I think CSM) don't even recruit at Dook. For the very competitive firms, perhaps the top 10% of the class is looked at similarly at both schools, but I would much rather be median at Penn aiming for NYC than at D.

http://www.cravath.com/interviewschedule/
http://www.cravath.com/lawyers/list.asp ... d1cf6f7e5b
--LinkRemoved--

Keep in mind that Duke is smaller than Penn. People need to realize that a lot of this slicing and dicing of schools' placement that we do on TLS is just based on our prestige/US News obsession.
Hire people from =/= recruit at. Recruit at means OCI.

What is a WLRC?
Pretty sure you shouldn't be dispensing advice if you don't know what WLRC is.

You might, but that's because you aren't considering that the super-majority of Penn students go to NYC, while only 20ish% of Duke students end up in New York.

quakeroats · Post by **quakeroats** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:36 pm

lawschoollll wrote:
irishman86 wrote:
quakeroats wrote: Yes. For example, roughly twice as many Duke students end up in NYC V10s relative to Michigan when controlling for class size. While these two work very well for comparison (both send a plurality of their students to NYC, both are outside of major markets, both are ranked similarly, etc.), you can do this across the top schools and get roughly the same picture. I'd make the case that V10 NYC placement is a good all-purpose metric for judging one school to the next unless you have a very specialized interest. Article III Clerkships follow the same basic trend:

YHS...Duke/Chicago/Penn...UVA/Columbia...Northwestern/Michigan/NYU/Cornell
What an idiot 1L/0L.

V10 placement is not an accurate all-purpose metric for judging NYC placement.

Also, no, you are not getting v10.
http://www.cravath.com/interviewschedule/

You're a legitimately horrible poster. And it's WLRK. hth

I'll stand by my postings. I've cited lots of data on this. If you're apt to believe otherwise, go with God. You'll need him.

Renzo · Post by **Renzo** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:37 pm

ITT: people from T7-14 schools whine and fight about who's daddy can beat up who's.

irishman86 · Post by **irishman86** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:38 pm

quakeroats wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
irishman86 wrote:
quakeroats wrote: Yes. For example, roughly twice as many Duke students end up in NYC V10s relative to Michigan when controlling for class size. While these two work very well for comparison (both send a plurality of their students to NYC, both are outside of major markets, both are ranked similarly, etc.), you can do this across the top schools and get roughly the same picture. I'd make the case that V10 NYC placement is a good all-purpose metric for judging one school to the next unless you have a very specialized interest. Article III Clerkships follow the same basic trend:

YHS...Duke/Chicago/Penn...UVA/Columbia...Northwestern/Michigan/NYU/Cornell
What an idiot 1L/0L.

V10 placement is not an accurate all-purpose metric for judging NYC placement.

Also, no, you are not getting v10.
http://www.cravath.com/interviewschedule/

You're a legitimately horrible poster. And it's WLRK. hth
I'll stand by my postings. I've cited lots of data on this. If you're apt to believe otherwise, go with God. You'll need him.

I don't know where you got the idea that Duke historically places better in Article III clerkships. Placement varies annually, but Duke is not "after YHS" for clerkship placement. Also, if you are a 1L, you should be studying.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=75513

--ImageRemoved--

quakeroats · Post by **quakeroats** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:40 pm

Renzo wrote:ITT: people from T7-14 schools whine and fight about who's daddy can beat up who's.

Who is John Galt?

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