Vanderbilt vs T14

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Veyron
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby Veyron » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:55 am

jt1341 wrote:
Veyron wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:Assuming that your 3.86 GPA is rounded up a bit by LSAC to perhaps a 3.9, MVPD may not be out of the question of your are willing to ED (particularly Duke).

After applying very late in the process (i.e. I applied after February 15), I was eventially admitted to Michigan, Penn, NU, and Duke. I ultimately took NU as I had already committed to moving to Chicago.


Hey kids! Which one of the above is not like the others?


What is Duke!


DING DING DING DING You win a faaaaaaaaaabulous new car!

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Grizz
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby Grizz » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:56 am

jt1341 wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
s0ph1e2007 wrote:
tomcox10 wrote:I've been reading on TLS, and it seems that the general consensus is that law is no gauranteed thing for you unless you go to a T14 school. With my numbers (167, 3.86), I fall right into the 15-20 range.

So now my question:

Is the disparity so great that I should choose to attend a lower end T14 school (say Cornell) at sticker versus Vanderbilt with a little bit of money (say 12,000 a year). By the way, I am fairly poor and would be taking on a full load of debt at any school I go to without a scholarship.



play around with LSN and that will help inform your decision. secondly, definitely at least apply to T-14 (-HYS [columbia and chicago are up to you]).
The answer after that really is: it depends. do you intend on taking a big law job and making a lot of money after you graduate? If you do, then the debt, although scary right now, really isn't a big deal. Lots of people pay back their debt quickly this way. If you want to do PI law, then look for a law school that has PI law payback plans: some schools' plans are significantly better than others. Btw. bottom T-14 and Vanderbilt, you need to decide where you feel most comfortable and who offers the type of law expertise you are looking for. Money shouldn't make a big difference if you're going big law, esp. if it's only a 12 grand difference.

You can't be fucking serious. Jesus Christ.


If you havent learned by now this girl (sophie2007) often posts completly useless information that comes from some small little world she made up in her head. Please do not take this previous post as serious.

If you plan on TAKING a big law job and MAKING A LOT of money after you graduate..... uh yeah sign me up too! most rediculous post.... ever


She also doesn't think azns are minorities lulz

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JazzOne
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby JazzOne » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:58 am

jt1341 wrote:If you plan on TAKING a big law job and MAKING A LOT of money after you graduate..... uh yeah sign me up too! most rediculous post.... ever

lol

005618502
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby 005618502 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:59 am

Veyron wrote:
jt1341 wrote:
Veyron wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:Assuming that your 3.86 GPA is rounded up a bit by LSAC to perhaps a 3.9, MVPD may not be out of the question of your are willing to ED (particularly Duke).

After applying very late in the process (i.e. I applied after February 15), I was eventially admitted to Michigan, Penn, NU, and Duke. I ultimately took NU as I had already committed to moving to Chicago.


Hey kids! Which one of the above is not like the others?


What is Duke!


DING DING DING DING You win a faaaaaaaaaabulous new car!


Yes! i need one of those!

005618502
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:56 pm

Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby 005618502 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:01 am

play around with LSN and that will help inform your decision. secondly, definitely at least apply to T-14 (-HYS [columbia and chicago are up to you]).
The answer after that really is: it depends. do you intend on taking a big law job and making a lot of money after you graduate? If you do, then the debt, although scary right now, really isn't a big deal. Lots of people pay back their debt quickly this way. If you want to do PI law, then look for a law school that has PI law payback plans: some schools' plans are significantly better than others. Btw. bottom T-14 and Vanderbilt, you need to decide where you feel most comfortable and who offers the type of law expertise you are looking for. Money shouldn't make a big difference if you're going big law, esp. if it's only a 12 grand difference.

You can't be fucking serious. Jesus Christ.


If you havent learned by now this girl (sophie2007) often posts completly useless information that comes from some small little world she made up in her head. Please do not take this previous post as serious.

If you plan on TAKING a big law job and MAKING A LOT of money after you graduate..... uh yeah sign me up too! most rediculous post.... ever


She also doesn't think azns are minorities lulz


I just dont understand where some people come from, and how they say certain things. Almost like there is no thought put into the speaking (or typing in this case) process

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thickfreakness
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby thickfreakness » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:18 pm

JazzOne wrote:
jt1341 wrote:If you plan on TAKING a big law job and MAKING A LOT of money after you graduate..... uh yeah sign me up too! most rediculous post.... ever

lol


Indeed. Everyone at T14 schools gets like 8 160K+ offers from BigLaw and multiple 55K, LRAP/IBR eligible PI jobs protecting the baby seals from being clubbed to death. DON'T QUESTION IT. THIS BOAT IS REAL.

005618502
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby 005618502 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:57 pm

thickfreakness wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
jt1341 wrote:If you plan on TAKING a big law job and MAKING A LOT of money after you graduate..... uh yeah sign me up too! most rediculous post.... ever

lol


Indeed. Everyone at T14 schools gets like 8 160K+ offers from BigLaw and multiple 55K, LRAP/IBR eligible PI jobs protecting the baby seals from being clubbed to death. DON'T QUESTION IT. THIS BOAT IS REAL.


I cant wait. i think ill just take one of the 3 V5 offers i get. no big deal

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BruceWayne
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:09 pm

bk1 wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:T-14 isn't really a meaningful distinction. If you're trying to conceptualize law schools in terms of the opportunities each will provide, then consider them in broad tiers. The caliber of a school is not as static the U.S. Weekly New's rankings. I.e., #10 is not better than #11, et cetera. As a particular example, you asked about the differences between Vandy and Cornell; since advanced search is down, here some relevant threads:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=119149
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113124&start=25


This is generally true. For example, I would say that Cornell isn't much better than Vandy, but NYU >>> Boalt.


This really isn't true. If you want to work in NYC then yes, but other than that it won't make a difference; and in the case of California it would be better to go to Boalt.

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bk1
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby bk1 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:13 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
This really isn't true. If you want to work in NYC then yes, but other than that it won't make a difference; and in the case of California it would be better to go to Boalt.

I meant purely in terms of placement power regardless of region. Feeding into NYC is a hide advantage.

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jtemp320
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby jtemp320 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:23 pm

You are my exact numbers twin! 3.86/167 - I am shooting for UCLA/Cornell/USC though - may apply to Vandy, WUSTL but really not as interested in those schools

Just retook the LSAT in October and waiting for my score though so we'll see

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BruceWayne
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:37 pm

bk1 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
This really isn't true. If you want to work in NYC then yes, but other than that it won't make a difference; and in the case of California it would be better to go to Boalt.

I meant purely in terms of placement power regardless of region. Feeding into NYC is a hide advantage.


That's what I'm saying. If you are talking about placement power regardless of region NYU doesn't come out on top of Boalt; it only tops Boalt in NYC. A firm/other legal employer outside of NYC really won't care if you went to Boalt versus NYU; they'll care about your grades.

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bk1
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby bk1 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:41 pm

BruceWayne wrote:That's what I'm saying. If you are talking about placement power regardless of region NYU doesn't come out on top of Boalt; it only tops Boalt in NYC.


That ignores how big NYC is. My point was that because NYU feeds into NYC it has a huge advantage over Boalt.

Rawlsian
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby Rawlsian » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:48 am

This years clerkship placement (for comparing Vandy to t-14):
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2010/05/us-news-.html

woeisme
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby woeisme » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:59 am

Other25BeforeYou wrote:If you want to go to biglaw in general, I imagine career prospects are about even. If you care about going to a prestigious biglaw firm, Cornell likely has the leg up (http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml).

You should make sure if you get money from Vandy that you send a copy of the award letter to Cornell. They're usually pretty generous about awarding additional scholarship money.


Except Cornell hasn't really cared about Vanderbilt money. For scholarship bargaining purposes you really need to be negotiating with $ from another T14 or a significant scholly from UCLA or UT.

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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby 005618502 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:05 pm

woeisme wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:If you want to go to biglaw in general, I imagine career prospects are about even. If you care about going to a prestigious biglaw firm, Cornell likely has the leg up (http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml).

You should make sure if you get money from Vandy that you send a copy of the award letter to Cornell. They're usually pretty generous about awarding additional scholarship money.


Except Cornell hasn't really cared about Vanderbilt money. For scholarship bargaining purposes you really need to be negotiating with $ from another T14 or a significant scholly from UCLA or UT.


I dont know why this is still going. T14>Vandy
End of story, even with money the fact is that if you want biglaw T14 is where its at

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Grizz
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby Grizz » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:37 pm

jt1341 wrote:
woeisme wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:If you want to go to biglaw in general, I imagine career prospects are about even. If you care about going to a prestigious biglaw firm, Cornell likely has the leg up (http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml).

You should make sure if you get money from Vandy that you send a copy of the award letter to Cornell. They're usually pretty generous about awarding additional scholarship money.


Except Cornell hasn't really cared about Vanderbilt money. For scholarship bargaining purposes you really need to be negotiating with $ from another T14 or a significant scholly from UCLA or UT.


I dont know why this is still going. T14>Vandy
End of story, even with money the fact is that if you want biglaw T14 is where its at


Want the southern firms? Want ATL? Don't go to Cornell over Vandy. And if you get money, I'd take it over Georgetown, too.
Last edited by Grizz on Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby Grizz » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:37 pm

woeisme wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:If you want to go to biglaw in general, I imagine career prospects are about even. If you care about going to a prestigious biglaw firm, Cornell likely has the leg up (http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml).

You should make sure if you get money from Vandy that you send a copy of the award letter to Cornell. They're usually pretty generous about awarding additional scholarship money.


Except Cornell hasn't really cared about Vanderbilt money. For scholarship bargaining purposes you really need to be negotiating with $ from another T14 or a significant scholly from UCLA or UT.


Huh which is funny, because I got the same from UT and Vandy. Lesson is apply to both I guess.

Rawlsian
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby Rawlsian » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:48 pm

jt1341 wrote:
woeisme wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:If you want to go to biglaw in general, I imagine career prospects are about even. If you care about going to a prestigious biglaw firm, Cornell likely has the leg up (http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml).

You should make sure if you get money from Vandy that you send a copy of the award letter to Cornell. They're usually pretty generous about awarding additional scholarship money.


Except Cornell hasn't really cared about Vanderbilt money. For scholarship bargaining purposes you really need to be negotiating with $ from another T14 or a significant scholly from UCLA or UT.


I dont know why this is still going. T14>Vandy
End of story, even with money the fact is that if you want biglaw T14 is where its at


What's amazing, is categorical statements like this. Is there any objective measure that shows Cornell is a better school than Vandy? Forget money, just straight up. Here's what we empirically know:
Vandy does better in art III clerkships. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2010/05/us-news-.html
Vandy places better into big law. http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20schools_charts_page12.pdf
Vandy's students have better numbers. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=128236
More Vandy grads made partner last year at NLJ 250 firms http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443757022

Now, add that Vandy's tuition is 7k cheaper, plus they give out twice as much scholarship money. Note: I'm not saying Vandy is better (although I think it's the stronger school), but Cornell and Vandy are at least peers. I concede that the numbers change year to year, but what we know right now is that the evidence does not support that t-14>Vandy. Many schools in the "t-14" have stronger programs; however, the t-14 is, by itself, not a meaningful distinction.

edit: Added links for easier reference
Last edited by Rawlsian on Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rundoxierun
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:44 pm

Cornell objectively>Vandy is the most hillariously incorrect thing ever written on TLS. Dollar for dollar I would choose Vandy over Cornell and Georgetown without even a second thought.

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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby 005618502 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:57 pm

tkgrrett wrote:Cornell objectively>Vandy is the most hillariously incorrect thing ever written on TLS. Dollar for dollar I would choose Vandy over Cornell and Georgetown without even a second thought.


Cornell i might agree, but definitely not georgetown

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Grizz
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby Grizz » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:02 pm

jt1341 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Cornell objectively>Vandy is the most hillariously incorrect thing ever written on TLS. Dollar for dollar I would choose Vandy over Cornell and Georgetown without even a second thought.


Cornell i might agree, but definitely not georgetown


I would in a heartbeat. For one reason definitely helps to have a 200 person class in this economy vs. almost 600.

005618502
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby 005618502 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:09 pm

rad law wrote:
jt1341 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Cornell objectively>Vandy is the most hillariously incorrect thing ever written on TLS. Dollar for dollar I would choose Vandy over Cornell and Georgetown without even a second thought.


Cornell i might agree, but definitely not georgetown


I would in a heartbeat. For one reason definitely helps to have a 200 person class in this economy vs. almost 600.


That means only 20 people are top 10% as compared to 60. I would rather have the MUCH better name and the extra room to be in the top _%

lawschoollll
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby lawschoollll » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:13 pm

jt1341 wrote:
rad law wrote:
jt1341 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Cornell objectively>Vandy is the most hillariously incorrect thing ever written on TLS. Dollar for dollar I would choose Vandy over Cornell and Georgetown without even a second thought.


Cornell i might agree, but definitely not georgetown


I would in a heartbeat. For one reason definitely helps to have a 200 person class in this economy vs. almost 600.


That means only 20 people are top 10% as compared to 60. I would rather have the MUCH better name and the extra room to be in the top _%

yikes

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beachbum
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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby beachbum » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:14 pm

jt1341 wrote:
rad law wrote:
jt1341 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Cornell objectively>Vandy is the most hillariously incorrect thing ever written on TLS. Dollar for dollar I would choose Vandy over Cornell and Georgetown without even a second thought.


Cornell i might agree, but definitely not georgetown


I would in a heartbeat. For one reason definitely helps to have a 200 person class in this economy vs. almost 600.


That means only 20 people are top 10% as compared to 60. I would rather have the MUCH better name and the extra room to be in the top _%


Though at GULC you have to beat out ~500 of your classmates, while at Vandy you only have to outperform ~190. It works both ways.

I think there's a compelling argument to be made that, especially ITE, Vandy, Cornell, and GULC are peer schools.

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Re: Vanderbilt vs T14

Postby 005618502 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:16 pm

That means only 20 people are top 10% as compared to 60. I would rather have the MUCH better name and the extra room to be in the top _%


Though at GULC you have to beat out ~500 of your classmates, while at Vandy you only have to outperform ~190. It works both ways.

I think there's a compelling argument to be made that, especially ITE, Vandy, Cornell, and GULC are peer schools.


Good point. I guess i would rather have large numbers to compete against then small numbers to compete against. It comes down to where you feel you will do better, which would make them peer schools. BUT i think Georgetown has a much stronger name then Vandy so thats another point to think about.




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