Phoenix School of Law Forum

[INLA0909]

Hello I wanted to get some advice. I am a RN, reside in AZ. I am looking at Phoenix School of Law, as it is in the locale of where I live, has a part-time program so I can continue to work full time d/t family. I have not yet taken the LSAT but plan taking it the next cycle, GPA 2.89.

My end goal is gain employment as a Healthcare Attorney with no preference in area of practice ie. not for profit, insurance, etc. And would this field earn me as much a I am making now Starting and then potentially more post 5 years with hopeful gainful employment (income now is >70K). Do you think going to a T4 school and the tremendous debt would get me to my goal, knowing that PSL is very new and not as reputable at this time as other traditional schools would get me a job as a Healthcare attorney? (all this being that I fair average to above average in my LSAT). Thank you

[NU_Jet55]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=125375

[nealric]

[The Gentleman]

Complete and unadulterated 0L speculation here. (welcome to TLS lol) I would think that your prior WE in the healthcare field would make you more marketable than the average Phoenix grad. But yours is a fairly unique situation. Therefore, the best course of action would be to try and meet with some "healthcare attorneys" to get a sense of both what the market is like and how your qualifications would impact your employment options.

[INLA0909]

Gentleman. Thank you, I will try to call and meet with some Health care attorneys in Tucson and Phoenix. I apperciate all advice as I really want to be able to persue this career

[tea_drinker]

Hello I wanted to get some advice. I am a RN, reside in AZ. I am looking at Phoenix School of Law, as it is in the locale of where I live, has a part-time program so I can continue to work full time d/t family. I have not yet taken the LSAT but plan taking it the next cycle, GPA 2.89.

My end goal is gain employment as a Healthcare Attorney with no preference in area of practice ie. not for profit, insurance, etc. And would this field earn me as much a I am making now Starting and then potentially more post 5 years with hopeful gainful employment (income now is >70K). Do you think going to a T4 school and the tremendous debt would get me to my goal, knowing that PSL is very new and not as reputable at this time as other traditional schools would get me a job as a Healthcare attorney? (all this being that I fair average to above average in my LSAT). Thank you

Part-time program is highly recommended. As you accumulate WE, a second degree, especially a JD, will bring you certain benefits (e.g. career advancement, job stability, etc.).

[inchoate_con]

My end goal is gain employment as a Healthcare Attorney with no preference in area of practice ie. not for profit, insurance, etc. And would this field earn me as much a I am making now Starting and then potentially more post 5 years with hopeful gainful employment (income now is >70K).

Hopefully, this is not taken as the common "don't go to law school" type response because that is not my intention. You should, however, consider long term earnings. Generally speaking, if your goal is ONLY potential earnings, you're going to make more as an RN over the years (factoring in tuition and my weak mathematical skills). That is, provided you move to another state, which you said you'd consider post law school. I believe AZ is one of the lower paid markets for nurses.

Completely anecdotal, but my wife is an ER/ICU nurse and, while she has way more experience than you, she makes well over 100k without any overtime as do her co-workers. Now, if you compare the amount of hours that lawyers (salary) work with that of RNs (hourly), you'd do quite well financially as a nurse. Say you work 80 hours a week as a lawyer, you're not guaranteed bonuses. You , however, put in comparable hours, say a 40 hour work week with another 40 of time and a half and double time, you're looking at an excellent salary. And most appealing, you're not worried about billing, overhead, etc; although, the stress level is probably the same. Why subject yourself to the process for a slim chance at a good income when you're already guaranteed a decent living as the years progress?

Besides, once you pop-out those money grubbing kids, take on a mortgage, car payments, and all the other BS of so-called life necessities, it never seems like enough.

Again, this is strictly $$ considerations and my personal experience (and assuming the current healthcare model does not radically change). While nursing may not have the prestige as law, which you're probably not going to find with PLS, it's a noble profession. What ever you decide, good luck!

[INLA0909]

thanks inchoate_con. I actually the cap at where I work for RN's salary wise is roughly 90k (and that's after working 10yrs plus) and hourly is great but times are a changing . The times when anyone could get overtime are slowly going away as the market is flooded with new grad RN's and the hospitals can't afford to keep paying that overtime so they send nurses home and bring in others that won't accrue the ot. That's why I was looking towards being a healthcare lawyer they seem to bring in over 100k and can influence policy to hopefully makes things a little better for a lot of us in the future. And I already have some lil ones that's why I have this sense of urgency. Thanks!

[Renzo]

I am from a city very similar to Phoenix, and worked in a healthcare role very similar to an RN. Among the approximately 150 similarly licensed professionals who were my coworkers, there were 6 attorneys--all of whom had passed the bar. None of them practiced because they made more money with less hassle in their current jobs.

[INLA0909]

Hey renzo thanks for the response, so what is that your referencing, I am curious. Do you think as an persuing a JD an a RN is not worth persuing and why. Just trying to cover all angles and does the PSL school seem like a place that would not land me a career as a healthcare attny. Thanks

[Hattori Hanzo]

If you look @ the legal market pay graphs, the majority of lawyers are either in the 30-60K group or 160K group with a very small percentage in between. Coming out of PSL, you'll most likely end up in the former group. Considering the strong market demand for RNs and how much you can make at your current job, you'll probably end up spending 3 years of your life and lots of money to get a job where you spend more hours working and make less money. If that's your dream and would make you happy, go for it but try to get into a better school.

[Renzo]

Hey renzo thanks for the response, so what is that your referencing, I am curious. Do you think as an persuing a JD an a RN is not worth persuing and why. Just trying to cover all angles and does the PSL school seem like a place that would not land me a career as a healthcare attny. Thanks

I don't want to completely "out" myself, so I hesitate to exactly identify my former occupation (my classmates would instantly know it was me). But my advice is this: There are substantially better non-clinical jobs available to an RN with a graduate degree than being an attorney. It's not guaranteed, but it's extrememly likely you'll be taking a substantial pay cut to work as an entry-level attorney. By contrast, you could spend less time (and less money) in school to get an MSN, MPH, MBA, or MA. in Healthcare Admin and start looking for healthcare management jobs that will pay more than the average local lawyer is making.

[inchoate_con]

Hello I wanted to get some advice. I am a RN, reside in AZ.

I had a conversation this morning about your situation with my wife. She said one of her subordinates has a JD and never did find a job after years. I forgot the school, but it compared to PLS.

Also, if you're interested in advocacy, she suggested investigating the "legal nurse consultant" field. Expert witnesses are paid well, and could kill two birds with one stone....

[Case2L]

I would echo an earlier comment - get an MPH or an MBA w/ a concentration in healthcare management. In-house counsel @ hospitals are such competitive jobs; you may be happier in non-legal administration anyway. I could almost guarantee you an MPH or MBA from ASU wil take you farther than a JD from Phoenix Law.

[reasonable_man]

Hey renzo thanks for the response, so what is that your referencing, I am curious. Do you think as an persuing a JD an a RN is not worth persuing and why. Just trying to cover all angles and does the PSL school seem like a place that would not land me a career as a healthcare attny. Thanks

I don't want to completely "out" myself, so I hesitate to exactly identify my former occupation (my classmates would instantly know it was me). But my advice is this: There are substantially better non-clinical jobs available to an RN with a graduate degree than being an attorney. It's not guaranteed, but it's extrememly likely you'll be taking a substantial pay cut to work as an entry-level attorney. By contrast, you could spend less time (and less money) in school to get an MSN, MPH, MBA, or MA. in Healthcare Admin and start looking for healthcare management jobs that will pay more than the average local lawyer is making.

As a practicing lawyer, I think this is really strong advice to consider.

[RVP11]

Hello I wanted to get some advice. I am a RN, reside in AZ. I am looking at Phoenix School of Law, as it is in the locale of where I live, has a part-time program so I can continue to work full time d/t family. I have not yet taken the LSAT but plan taking it the next cycle, GPA 2.89.

My end goal is gain employment as a Healthcare Attorney with no preference in area of practice ie. not for profit, insurance, etc. And would this field earn me as much a I am making now Starting and then potentially more post 5 years with hopeful gainful employment (income now is >70K). Do you think going to a T4 school and the tremendous debt would get me to my goal, knowing that PSL is very new and not as reputable at this time as other traditional schools would get me a job as a Healthcare attorney? (all this being that I fair average to above average in my LSAT). Thank you

Most likely you will make less money as a lawyer than you make now.

[Capitol A]

While I don't claim to be an expert on any of this, I do have an opinion, as I am in a similar situation.
I am an RN in Phx, and am applying for 2011 law school admission.
I don't have kids, I make quite a bit less than it sounds like you do, and I have slightly different ambitions. My ultimate purpose in pursuing legal education is not strictly financial either.
All that being said...There are few things that the majority of contributors to this site either don't know, or likely aren't considering....
1:The market for RNs is NOT what it used to be. Like you said, the days of double time pay, and working registry for $100/hr are LONG gone.
2:While the starting salaries for RNs are higher than almost any other bachelor's prepared position, the ceiling is significantly lower than other professions (including law), and is much easier to reach.
3:Many of these posters seem to be assuming that you are happy with your current employment, and that you are making the decision to pursue your JD based strictly on money.
-I guess my opinion is this-If you are looking into law only for financial reasons, sure, there are probably better things you could do. If you think you have a passion for something that a JD can help you accomplish, then go for it.
-Keep in mind however that the prestige of the school you attend does account for something.
-Your GPA may hold you back a little, but my understanding is that the longer you've been out of school, the less your GPA matters. So, study super hard for the LSAT so you can go somewhere good. Loyola Chicago, U of MD, and Georgia State all have part time programs, and strong reputations in the area of health law.
-Do not be discouraged by all this "only 80% of JD grads get jobs" stuff. I recently spoke to a JD recruiter at a law office here in Phx (HUGE law firm with offices all over the world. This recruiter told me "your resume gets you an interview. Not just what school you sent to, and your school does not get you a job. Your intelligence and you personality when I interview you are what gets you a job." and this person was actually speaking to me as a representative of an extremely well respected law school.
-Anyway...I don't claim to be an expert on any of this, but I have been researching and getting every peice of info that I possibly can for about the last 2 years, and I am excited to be entering the legal profession.
You are welcome to PM me if you want to discuss this personally.

[INLA0909]

Capital A, thank you for your response I greatly apperciate it. In respose;
1. Correct
2. Ceiling; absolutely. Starting is great but the ceiling for the profession is discouraging.
3. Happy, however I am wanting to persue a JD for a passion that I have always had. The decision is not soley based upon financial.

The post was encourging and has many others have prompted me to not go to PSL, I will study for my LSAT and based upon the score, I will research my options. I'm aware of the reputation of a Law School seems almost detrimental to the persons future (hence the hesitation of PSL and the seeking of guidance from the forum). I will send you a pm later this week.