CARDOZO full vs part time

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
dali
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:07 pm

CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby dali » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:25 pm

I'd prefer part time to take it easy the first yr and enjoy nyc, but have heard there is no real financial aid awarded to part timers. With my #s would it be worth it to try full time/get some $? or should i pay sticker part time?
2.85/165, but with 2 deaths in immediate family and 1 family member in serious auto accident/resulting brain damage during the time i was in college i think they will understand my gpa. also went to william and mary which is a relatively tough school.

User avatar
2ofspades
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby 2ofspades » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:31 pm

Even if I were headed to a part time program, I wouldn't go into it expecting to "take it easy."

Also, Cardozo has increasingly cracked down on low GPAs the past two years. I would apply broadly to schools where you are above the LSAT median.
Last edited by 2ofspades on Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

revolution724
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:16 am

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby revolution724 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:54 pm

dali wrote:also went to william and mary which is a relatively tough school.


If only this mattered.

dissonance1848
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:42 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby dissonance1848 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:57 pm

Given Cardozo's place in the NYC pecking order, you should seriously look elsewhere. Being at a school with a lock on the local market is infinitely better to being in NYC with the glitter and no job offer.

dali
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:07 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby dali » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:14 pm

2ofspades wrote:Even if I were headed to a part time program, I wouldn't go into it expecting to "take it easy."

Also, Cardozo has increasingly cracked down on low GPAs the past two years. I would apply broadly to schools where you are above the LSAT median.


well obviously 10 credits/semester is easier than 15

dali
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:07 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby dali » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:15 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:Given Cardozo's place in the NYC pecking order, you should seriously look elsewhere. Being at a school with a lock on the local market is infinitely better to being in NYC with the glitter and no job offer.



Right, but I want to be working in NYC post grad

User avatar
2ofspades
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby 2ofspades » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:42 pm

dali wrote:
dissonance1848 wrote:Given Cardozo's place in the NYC pecking order, you should seriously look elsewhere. Being at a school with a lock on the local market is infinitely better to being in NYC with the glitter and no job offer.



Right, but I want to be working in NYC post grad

Considering Cardozo's latest LSN graph, I think Brooklyn, St. John's, or Rutgers-Newark w/$ are your best NYC-area chances. But the underlined is key.

dali
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:07 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby dali » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:56 pm

2ofspades wrote:
dali wrote:
dissonance1848 wrote:Given Cardozo's place in the NYC pecking order, you should seriously look elsewhere. Being at a school with a lock on the local market is infinitely better to being in NYC with the glitter and no job offer.



Right, but I want to be working in NYC post grad

Considering Cardozo's latest LSN graph, I think Brooklyn, St. John's, or Rutgers-Newark w/$ are your best NYC-area chances. But the underlined is key.


So do you think I would have better job prospects at Brooklyn St. Johns or Rutgers? Would it be realistic to commute to those schools from Manhattan? Ive looked at them because I thought they would give me $ because my LSAT but I was under the impression that Cardozo had better placement.

User avatar
2ofspades
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby 2ofspades » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:07 pm

dali wrote:So do you think I would have better job prospects at Brooklyn St. Johns or Rutgers? Would it be realistic to commute to those schools from Manhattan? Ive looked at them because I thought they would give me $ because my LSAT but I was under the impression that Cardozo had better placement.

Cardozo has better placement than the other three, but I think they will WL you since they are becoming hostile to sub ~3.3 GPAs. I don't know how the lower-ranked schools compare to each other in terms of placement, but I think at least one of Brooklyn, SJ, and Rutgers will give you some money; in some years, they've given quite a lot of money to sub 3.0/mid-160s. You can commute to all three from Manhattan, but I would live in an outer borough to minimize debt if it were me.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby Grizz » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:09 pm

dali wrote:I'd prefer part time to take it easy the first yr and enjoy nyc, but have heard there is no real financial aid awarded to part timers. With my #s would it be worth it to try full time/get some $? or should i pay sticker part time?
2.85/165, but with 2 deaths in immediate family and 1 family member in serious auto accident/resulting brain damage during the time i was in college i think they will understand my gpa. also went to william and mary which is a relatively tough school.


Yeah you should not take it easy if you do PT. Also I would recommend not going to Dozo at anywhere close to sticker given the job market. Actually I just recommend not going to Dozo.

dissonance1848
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:42 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby dissonance1848 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:10 pm

He was saying you had better chances at those places, not better job placement. Since getting a job in NYC with those schools would be a pain in the ass, I agree with him you should go to the school where you minimize your debt. Cardozo with full tuition debt would be worse than say Brooklyn or St. John's with half or less debt, even though prospects are worse at Brooklyn or St. John's, because the trade off in placement is less than the debt burden most likely.

dali
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:07 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby dali » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:15 pm

So would just Fordham PT be worth sticker? Doubt I will get in though

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby Grizz » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:17 pm

dali wrote:So would just Fordham PT be worth sticker? Doubt I will get in though


Probably not, unless you can get a sweet job to offset the part time. Opera Soprano can provide the counterpoint if she finds this thread.

User avatar
2ofspades
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby 2ofspades » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:19 pm

dali wrote:So would just Fordham PT be worth sticker? Doubt I will get in though

The problem with Fordham is that they cut their PT class in half last admissions cycle. This is because a couple years ago, USNWR started to include PT stats in the LSAT/GPA medians used to calculate rankings. I expect the 25/50/75 stats for last cycle's PT admits (matriculating now) will more closely resemble Fordham's FT stats than the stats they have had for previous PT entering classes.

dali
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:07 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby dali » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:02 am

also im 1/16 native american and have a tribal certificate

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby Grizz » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:03 am

dali wrote:also im 1/16 native american and have a tribal certificate


Still stand by what I said above.

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby MrAnon » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:15 pm

Seriously evaluate whether you want to be in law school or just to be in NYC. If it is just the latter then that is perfectly fine. Plenty of young people live in NYC and hold entry level jobs that pay as much and have better exit options than 98% of the classes of Cardozo, Brooklyn, St. Johns, etc. enjoy. You talk about doing LS part time so you can take it easy and enjoy NYC. You don't seem passionate to finish the degree in 3 years, to take it during the day or evening, or to take it from any particular school in the area so long as you can live in Manhattan and you are willing to take on a ton of debt for unclear job prospects even in NYC. That's right-grads from these schools will have a tough time finding work in their home market. Why not avoid all this and get an apartment and a job in Manhattan next week? Law school will always be around for later if you need it.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby Grizz » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:24 pm

MrAnon wrote:Seriously evaluate whether you want to be in law school or just to be in NYC. If it is just the latter then that is perfectly fine. Plenty of young people live in NYC and hold entry level jobs that pay as much and have better exit options than 98% of the classes of Cardozo, Brooklyn, St. Johns, etc. enjoy. You talk about doing LS part time so you can take it easy and enjoy NYC. You don't seem passionate to finish the degree in 3 years, to take it during the day or evening, or to take it from any particular school in the area so long as you can live in Manhattan and you are willing to take on a ton of debt for unclear job prospects even in NYC. That's right-grads from these schools will have a tough time finding work in their home market. Why not avoid all this and get an apartment and a job in Manhattan next week? Law school will always be around for later if you need it.


This.

Or, go to a prestigious law school and get a job in NYC. It's arguably the easiest market to break into (if you have the grades) due to not needing ties.

dali
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:07 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby dali » Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:55 pm

rad law wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Seriously evaluate whether you want to be in law school or just to be in NYC. If it is just the latter then that is perfectly fine. Plenty of young people live in NYC and hold entry level jobs that pay as much and have better exit options than 98% of the classes of Cardozo, Brooklyn, St. Johns, etc. enjoy. You talk about doing LS part time so you can take it easy and enjoy NYC. You don't seem passionate to finish the degree in 3 years, to take it during the day or evening, or to take it from any particular school in the area so long as you can live in Manhattan and you are willing to take on a ton of debt for unclear job prospects even in NYC. That's right-grads from these schools will have a tough time finding work in their home market. Why not avoid all this and get an apartment and a job in Manhattan next week? Law school will always be around for later if you need it.


This.

Or, go to a prestigious law school and get a job in NYC. It's arguably the easiest market to break into (if you have the grades) due to not needing ties.



You guys are right, I just love NYC. I'm planning on doing the OCI's for my undergrad in the spring to see if I can get any offers in that area for 70k+ but am doubtful due to my low GPA & being a non-business major. Also, without going off of location I have no clue where to start looking for other law schools to apply. If I could get into a T25 I'd feel way more comfortable taking the 3 years to really focus on studying in whatever random location, but am having a hard time figuring out realistic options due to the LSAT/GPA discrepancy and the very little data available on the added help of a URM-Native American boost. I've only received 2 fee waivers- Cincinatti & Seton Hall, neither of which I want to attend- so I really can't afford to apply to more than 5-6 schools. I really just want to make sure I either have a great job lined up postgrad, or that I will be working towards one with law school. I do NOT want to end up living at home working at the outlet mall. (there are very few employment opportunities where my mom lives in Inwood, WV)

Aqualibrium
Posts: 2011
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:57 am

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:01 pm

Have you graduated yet? How much is tuition at your undergrad? If the answer to those questions are no, and reasonable, I'd take 2 semesters, pull your gpa up to a 3.0, and shoot for next year's admissions cycle. I personally think that an Native American with a 165/3.0 has a great shot at t25s (some with money) and t50s (quite a few with probably a full ride).

User avatar
bk1
Posts: 18406
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby bk1 » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:08 pm

dali wrote:You guys are right, I just love NYC. I'm planning on doing the OCI's for my undergrad in the spring to see if I can get any offers in that area for 70k+ but am doubtful due to my low GPA & being a non-business major. Also, without going off of location I have no clue where to start looking for other law schools to apply. If I could get into a T25 I'd feel way more comfortable taking the 3 years to really focus on studying in whatever random location, but am having a hard time figuring out realistic options due to the LSAT/GPA discrepancy and the very little data available on the added help of a URM-Native American boost. I've only received 2 fee waivers- Cincinatti & Seton Hall, neither of which I want to attend- so I really can't afford to apply to more than 5-6 schools. I really just want to make sure I either have a great job lined up postgrad, or that I will be working towards one with law school. I do NOT want to end up living at home working at the outlet mall. (there are very few employment opportunities where my mom lives in Inwood, WV)


Check out http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com and look at the graphs for the past couple of years. You can sort by GPA/LSAT/URM. Splitters generally have better luck when they apply broadly, but LSN will give you a general idea of where you have a shot at.

Honestly I would recommend retaking the LSAT. As for schools, I think you should aim for Fordham or ED to UVa. Also look at other strong regionals on the east coast (BU, BC, GW, etc) and see how they place in NYC.

dali
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:07 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby dali » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:40 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:Have you graduated yet? How much is tuition at your undergrad? If the answer to those questions are no, and reasonable, I'd take 2 semesters, pull your gpa up to a 3.0, and shoot for next year's admissions cycle. I personally think that an Native American with a 165/3.0 has a great shot at t25s (some with money) and t50s (quite a few with probably a full ride).


No, but I only need 13 more credits so I doubt that will make much difference on my GPA. Luckily I had a tuition waiver for all 4 years through Veteran's Affairs (my dad was in the marines 24 yrs) so I'm willing to spend a little more on law school.

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby MrAnon » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:01 pm

I'm planning on doing the OCI's for my undergrad in the spring to see if I can get any offers in that area for 70k+ but am doubtful due to my low GPA & being a non-business major.


If you want offers in NYC for 70k+ then an NYC tier 2 school is the wrong move. Less than a dozen students out of every class from those schools can find law jobs that pay like that. As many or fewer end up in big law. There is a much higher probability that if you find a steady job out of those schools it will start at near 45K.

So again, back to the entry level job thing. Taking an entry level 35K job in NYC will set you on a better earnings and income trajectory for the next 20-30 years than the average grad of any Tier 2. You'll have 3 years of income while the student has 3 years of no income and is in fact accruing massive debt. If you are smart then you can transition without a grad degree to a 70K a year job after 3-4 years. The Tier 2 grad will be dreaming of such a salary but will take about 5-10 more years after graduation to reach it and once he eventually does he will be giving up slices of his earnings to Sallie Mae.

The low GPA people in college are the low GPA people in law school and vice versa. Law school is another stress that will devastate mental health just like family health crises. I'd suggest that if you don't respond to outside stresses well that you give this a real hard look.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby paratactical » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:11 pm

You should consider trying to be a paralegal for one of the big firms in NYC. You'll get 2 years WE, get to enjoy NYC and possibly create serious connections for your future legal career. Lots of firms offer two year programs. Contact legal recruiters in NYC to get interviews.

Lots of big law firms won't even let you paralegal with your low GPA, but a recruiter might know one that would take a risk on you.

blsingindisguise
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: CARDOZO full vs part time

Postby blsingindisguise » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:36 am

Second what everyone else is saying. OP clearly should not be entering law school right now. The paralegal idea is a good one.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests