FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

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androstan
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FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby androstan » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:31 pm

I guess what I'm asking is, if you had the choice, would you take G-town part time or Franklin Pierce full ride. Assuming a career in patent prep/pros with graduate work in chemistry and undergrad in chemical engineering.

tesoro
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby tesoro » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:34 pm

Depends on whether NH is a place where you'd be prone to killing yourself or not. Either one works. How much do you like money? How much do you like location/prestige? You'll get hired either way.

czelede
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby czelede » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:38 pm

If you're looking into patent law, with your background I would personally take FP - it's ranked very well above its tier in terms of IP law and from what I've heard, your undergrad/masters/WE is fairly important for IP law.

Georgetown does have the mad lay prestige though :) I wouldn't say it's worth sacrificing a full ride at a good IP law school for though...

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androstan
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby androstan » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:40 pm

tesoro wrote:Depends on whether NH is a place where you'd be prone to killing yourself or not. Either one works. How much do you like money? How much do you like location/prestige? You'll get hired either way.


Money's good, I'd like to make more of it. Turns out that a master's in chemistry pays about 45k. I'd like to double that and possibly even triple it. Not really interested in "model and bottle". Not really interested in mcmansions and mercedes.

I'll get hired either way? That runs contrary to so much that I've been reading about, i.e. that the vast majority of lawyers are having a lot of trouble getting hired. Eve at the t14 I'm hearing that things are getting rough, especially in the lower 3/6.

Another consideration is FPLC -> UNH School of Law. One of the goals of this merger is explicitly stated "Get Pierce's USNWR ranking into the top 100". If Pierce were to be on the rise for the next few years I might be kicking myself for not taking a free ride there while they were still not too difficult to get. Otoh, maybe the difference between a tier 3 and a top 100 isn't really anything :P.

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bk1
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby bk1 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:42 pm

androstan wrote:Otoh, maybe the difference between a tier 3 and a top 100 isn't really anything :P.


It isn't.

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bk1
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby bk1 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:44 pm

Though I've heard that FPLC is well-respected for IP, I do not know more than what I've casually read.

How much would you work if went to GULC part-time? How much would you make? Would you want to transfer into their FT when you could?

czelede
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby czelede » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:57 pm

androstan wrote:
tesoro wrote:Depends on whether NH is a place where you'd be prone to killing yourself or not. Either one works. How much do you like money? How much do you like location/prestige? You'll get hired either way.


Money's good, I'd like to make more of it. Turns out that a master's in chemistry pays about 45k. I'd like to double that and possibly even triple it. Not really interested in "model and bottle". Not really interested in mcmansions and mercedes.

I'll get hired either way? That runs contrary to so much that I've been reading about, i.e. that the vast majority of lawyers are having a lot of trouble getting hired. Eve at the t14 I'm hearing that things are getting rough, especially in the lower 3/6.

Another consideration is FPLC -> UNH School of Law. One of the goals of this merger is explicitly stated "Get Pierce's USNWR ranking into the top 100". If Pierce were to be on the rise for the next few years I might be kicking myself for not taking a free ride there while they were still not too difficult to get. Otoh, maybe the difference between a tier 3 and a top 100 isn't really anything :P.


Very true, but IP Law does not totally fall into the same category as BigLaw (which is what much of the T14 aims for). You could easily score a job with an IP boutique with the proper undergraduate/graduate/industry experience and a JD from a strong patent law program. Even more so if you're a female.

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androstan
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby androstan » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:01 pm

czelede wrote:
androstan wrote:
tesoro wrote:Depends on whether NH is a place where you'd be prone to killing yourself or not. Either one works. How much do you like money? How much do you like location/prestige? You'll get hired either way.


Money's good, I'd like to make more of it. Turns out that a master's in chemistry pays about 45k. I'd like to double that and possibly even triple it. Not really interested in "model and bottle". Not really interested in mcmansions and mercedes.

I'll get hired either way? That runs contrary to so much that I've been reading about, i.e. that the vast majority of lawyers are having a lot of trouble getting hired. Eve at the t14 I'm hearing that things are getting rough, especially in the lower 3/6.

Another consideration is FPLC -> UNH School of Law. One of the goals of this merger is explicitly stated "Get Pierce's USNWR ranking into the top 100". If Pierce were to be on the rise for the next few years I might be kicking myself for not taking a free ride there while they were still not too difficult to get. Otoh, maybe the difference between a tier 3 and a top 100 isn't really anything :P.


Very true, but IP Law does not totally fall into the same category as BigLaw (which is what much of the T14 aims for). You could easily score a job with an IP boutique with the proper undergraduate/graduate/industry experience and a JD from a strong patent law program. Even more so if you're a female.


Why female? Should I get a sex change operation?

czelede
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby czelede » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:07 pm

androstan wrote:
czelede wrote:
androstan wrote:
tesoro wrote:Depends on whether NH is a place where you'd be prone to killing yourself or not. Either one works. How much do you like money? How much do you like location/prestige? You'll get hired either way.


Money's good, I'd like to make more of it. Turns out that a master's in chemistry pays about 45k. I'd like to double that and possibly even triple it. Not really interested in "model and bottle". Not really interested in mcmansions and mercedes.

I'll get hired either way? That runs contrary to so much that I've been reading about, i.e. that the vast majority of lawyers are having a lot of trouble getting hired. Eve at the t14 I'm hearing that things are getting rough, especially in the lower 3/6.

Another consideration is FPLC -> UNH School of Law. One of the goals of this merger is explicitly stated "Get Pierce's USNWR ranking into the top 100". If Pierce were to be on the rise for the next few years I might be kicking myself for not taking a free ride there while they were still not too difficult to get. Otoh, maybe the difference between a tier 3 and a top 100 isn't really anything :P.


Very true, but IP Law does not totally fall into the same category as BigLaw (which is what much of the T14 aims for). You could easily score a job with an IP boutique with the proper undergraduate/graduate/industry experience and a JD from a strong patent law program. Even more so if you're a female.


Why female? Should I get a sex change operation?


There's a lack of women in these fields (moreso engineering into patent law than hard science into patent law, but I imagine its not that different) so being a female gives you a slight "URM" type boost for such jobs. Given that you're decently qualified to begin with, that is.

(When it comes to patent law jobs, btw, this is a purely observational assessment based on anecdotal evidence.)

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androstan
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby androstan » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:11 pm

bk1 wrote:Though I've heard that FPLC is well-respected for IP, I do not know more than what I've casually read.

How much would you work if went to GULC part-time? How much would you make? Would you want to transfer into their FT when you could?


I don't know yet. I may work full time. Ideally I'd go ahead and pass the patent bar and get a job as a patent agent during the day. Or, if Fate really loves me, a job as a patent examiner.

Assuming I don't get wonderful gigs like that, I'd probably try to transfer into the full time division.

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merichard87
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby merichard87 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:44 pm

Engineer here also looking to go into patent law and I would probably go with FP. They far outplace their ranking and have a great IP reputation.

Sidenote: If you graduate in the top third or something you are automatically admitted to the NH Bar. Just an added perk.

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androstan
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby androstan » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:52 pm

merichard87 wrote:Engineer here also looking to go into patent law and I would probably go with FP. They far outplace their ranking and have a great IP reputation.

Sidenote: If you graduate in the top third or something you are automatically admitted to the NH Bar. Just an added perk.


Reference? IIRC ~6 students are specially chosen after 1L year to do extra experiential learning and, if they complete all the requirements, are exempt from the NH Bar. I believe it's called the Daniel Websters Scholar program.

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merichard87
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby merichard87 » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:34 pm

androstan wrote:
merichard87 wrote:Engineer here also looking to go into patent law and I would probably go with FP. They far outplace their ranking and have a great IP reputation.

Sidenote: If you graduate in the top third or something you are automatically admitted to the NH Bar. Just an added perk.


Reference? IIRC ~6 students are specially chosen after 1L year to do extra experiential learning and, if they complete all the requirements, are exempt from the NH Bar. I believe it's called the Daniel Websters Scholar program.



Don't know specifics, only what the Asst. Dean told me and she talked about students in a certain percentage of the class but didn't mention a specific program.

NoJob
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby NoJob » Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:48 pm

androstan wrote:I guess what I'm asking is, if you had the choice, would you take G-town part time or Franklin Pierce full ride. Assuming a career in patent prep/pros with graduate work in chemistry and undergrad in chemical engineering.


Take the full ride with the following warning.

Make sure there is no little clause in your scholarship that mandates a certain academic performance to keep the scholarship, e.g. a certain gpa.

If the gods don't favor you, then you might lose that wonderful scholarship. (There has been some statement on this by the scam bloggers. You should go take a look at them before you accept. Shilling Me Softly or Esquire Never, e.g.)

Imagine having to pay sticker for that law school.
________________________________________

If there is a funky little clause like that, you may want to go with Georgetown. At least, they are stabbing you in the front. In this economy, I would take any job over going to law school.

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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby tesoro » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:16 am

androstan wrote:
tesoro wrote:Depends on whether NH is a place where you'd be prone to killing yourself or not. Either one works. How much do you like money? How much do you like location/prestige? You'll get hired either way.


Money's good, I'd like to make more of it. Turns out that a master's in chemistry pays about 45k. I'd like to double that and possibly even triple it. Not really interested in "model and bottle". Not really interested in mcmansions and mercedes.

I'll get hired either way? That runs contrary to so much that I've been reading about, i.e. that the vast majority of lawyers are having a lot of trouble getting hired. Eve at the t14 I'm hearing that things are getting rough, especially in the lower 3/6.

Another consideration is FPLC -> UNH School of Law. One of the goals of this merger is explicitly stated "Get Pierce's USNWR ranking into the top 100". If Pierce were to be on the rise for the next few years I might be kicking myself for not taking a free ride there while they were still not too difficult to get. Otoh, maybe the difference between a tier 3 and a top 100 isn't really anything :P.


Your line of reasoning and concerns is generally true, but your situation is the exception. You're looking to do prep and pro. FPLC basically manufactures IP lawyers. You'll build enough contacts and have enough employer interest to get the job you want, assuming that there is a shortage of chemical engineers in the field (I believe there is). Even if your OCI sucks there will always be the Loyola patent fair (google it or forum search if you're unfamiliar), where you'll probably be searching out your next job anyway.

The problem with choosing FPLC is you'd better be damn sure that this is the career path you want to follow, because if you get a hard on for tax law or something in the public interest realm down the road, GULC is where you want to be. The question about money pertained to spending $0 versus spending $150,000 on tuition.

One other thing: Prep and pro does not require a JD. Consider working as a patent agent for a year and then reassessing whether there is any purpose in spending your time acquiring one.

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androstan
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby androstan » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:13 pm

Prep and pro may not require a J.D., but it pays a lot better with a J.D. Also with the J.D. there is at least the option to litigate.

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bk1
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby bk1 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:24 pm

NoJob wrote:In this economy, I would take any job over going to law school.


Fry cook at McDonald's > YLS, obviously.

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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby tesoro » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:37 pm

androstan wrote:Prep and pro may not require a J.D., but it pays a lot better with a J.D. Also with the J.D. there is at least the option to litigate.


Sure. I'm suggesting making sure this is a path you're going to commit to. It's boring, monotonous and often frustrating. Law school opens doors to much more interesting things that might pay substantially less to do and may be more competitive to get into. You might be lured away by different fields. If this is even a possibility, GULC is the choice. If not, you'll be just fine at FPLC.

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nealric
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby nealric » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:32 pm

Absent some really extenuating personal circumstances, you would be crazy to take FPCL over GULC.

I'm a GULC alum if you have any questions.

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2ofspades
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby 2ofspades » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:16 pm

nealric wrote:Absent some really extenuating personal circumstances, you would be crazy to take FPCL over GULC.

I'm a GULC alum if you have any questions.

Agree with nealric. No affiliation with G'town.

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rayiner
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby rayiner » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:21 pm

Masters in Chem means nothing. You'll be unemployable from FPLC. Even from GULC PT you're not safe for a patent job, though the odds are okay.

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androstan
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby androstan » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:09 pm

rayiner wrote:Masters in Chem means nothing. You'll be unemployable from FPLC. Even from GULC PT you're not safe for a patent job, though the odds are okay.


Unemployable? So every almost 150 people graduate from FPLC and don't get a job within a year? Wouldn't old students be warning new students?

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apper123
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby apper123 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:08 pm

Taking FPLC over GULC is insanity.

Disclosure: GULC student <--

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rayiner
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby rayiner » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:24 pm

androstan wrote:
rayiner wrote:Masters in Chem means nothing. You'll be unemployable from FPLC. Even from GULC PT you're not safe for a patent job, though the odds are okay.


Unemployable? So every almost 150 people graduate from FPLC and don't get a job within a year? Wouldn't old students be warning new students?


Unemployable for the purposes of IP law. IP shops are all at least midlaw, paying $90-100k on the low end. These places aren't going to be looking for FPLC grads. Hell they're passing over tons of T1 grads ITE.

tesoro
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Re: FPLC full ride vs. G-town PT

Postby tesoro » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:35 am

rayiner wrote:
androstan wrote:
rayiner wrote:Masters in Chem means nothing. You'll be unemployable from FPLC. Even from GULC PT you're not safe for a patent job, though the odds are okay.


Unemployable? So every almost 150 people graduate from FPLC and don't get a job within a year? Wouldn't old students be warning new students?


Unemployable for the purposes of IP law. IP shops are all at least midlaw, paying $90-100k on the low end. These places aren't going to be looking for FPLC grads. Hell they're passing over tons of T1 grads ITE.


I think you're being overly negative. Chem E >>>>> Chem. While there's no boom in the chem industry right now, there are interdisciplinary fields that law firms are prosecuting an increasing number of patents in (think batteries (hybrid cars and smart phones both caused a boom here), semiconductors and broader chemical "systems" areas). Those firms could benefit from a Chem E with a masters in chem.

There's a scarcity of engineers in the legal market that causes pretige of school to become secodary, which is the only reason why I think that FPLC is a viable option here. Anecdotally, I know of a manufacturing engineer who graduated just above median from FPLC and has a fine job doing prep and pro, and who claims his classmates fared as well as he did. Obviously you can't use anecdotes on their own to make decisions as big as this, but surely there are more applications to Chem E than Manufacturing E. I'd tell 99% of anyone else to definitely take GULC, but in this one person's case it comes down to how important being debt free and in a city is to him or her because I don't think the choice of school is going to be overly limiting employment wise.

It's possible that I'm misinformed about the chemical market as well, and if so then you might know better than I do.




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