A Challenge to the Conventional Wisdom to Chase Prestige

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presh
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Re: A Challenge to the Conventional Wisdom to Chase Prestige

Postby presh » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:35 pm

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Last edited by presh on Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: A Challenge to the Conventional Wisdom to Chase Prestige

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:56 pm

presh wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:
presh wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:I addressed that point. My presumption is more reasonable than the article's, because my presumption at least has solid data from transfer students to back it up. It might be comparing apples to oranges, but at least I have another fruit to compare things to. I'll take that fruit over terrible logic spun off from LSAT correlation any day of the week.


Do we really have solid data on this though? I could be wrong, but it seems like we only have anecdotal evidence from TLS users about how transfers do. This isn't to say that you are not correct about this, but a) TLS is a self-selecting group and b) transfers that kick ass at their new school are more likely to come here and talk about it. This just doesn't add up to solid data for me.

I do agree that the study is flawed.


Which is why I admitted that doing an actual study on transfer student performance would be good. All I have to go on is knowledge of other transfers' grades, which is admittedly a fairly limited pool (though not limited to the TLS sample, by any means). But that information is a stronger reed than the article's "zilch."


Ok. I don't think we are really disagreeing here. I just think that "solid data" was rather overstating your case.


Yeah, you're right. Mea culpa on that. I don't know why this article bothers me so much, but it makes me :evil:

d34d9823
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Re: A Challenge to the Conventional Wisdom to Chase Prestige

Postby d34d9823 » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:46 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Yeah, you're right. Mea culpa on that. I don't know why this article bothers me so much, but it makes me :evil:

It's creating cognitive dissonance by pointing out that you should be sucking at your new school. Start sucking like, you know, you're supposed to and that should resolve the problem.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: A Challenge to the Conventional Wisdom to Chase Prestige

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:48 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Yeah, you're right. Mea culpa on that. I don't know why this article bothers me so much, but it makes me :evil:

It's creating cognitive dissonance by pointing out that you should be sucking at your new school. Start sucking like, you know, you're supposed to and that should resolve the problem.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll get right to work on that. If I manage to pull straight Ds this year, I might end up just a bit above median, and then this article can be right :lol:

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presh
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Re: A Challenge to the Conventional Wisdom to Chase Prestige

Postby presh » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:39 pm

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Last edited by presh on Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: A Challenge to the Conventional Wisdom to Chase Prestige

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:43 pm

presh wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Yeah, you're right. Mea culpa on that. I don't know why this article bothers me so much, but it makes me :evil:

It's creating cognitive dissonance by pointing out that you should be sucking at your new school. Start sucking like, you know, you're supposed to and that should resolve the problem.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll get right to work on that. If I manage to pull straight Ds this year, I might end up just a bit above median, and then this article can be right :lol:


I understand your reaction to the article. I hate when academic studies draw conclusions that are clearly stretching the data.
Now what I think would be an interesting study is gathering data on both transfer performance at the new school and hiring results in comparison with those of equivalent class standing who chose not to transfer.


Yeah. I have anecdotal evidence on that, too - buddy of mine at my old school spent the summer waiting tables, heh. But yes, a thorough study would be interesting.

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skoobily doobily
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Re: A Challenge to the Conventional Wisdom to Chase Prestige

Postby skoobily doobily » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:12 pm

presh wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Yeah, you're right. Mea culpa on that. I don't know why this article bothers me so much, but it makes me :evil:

It's creating cognitive dissonance by pointing out that you should be sucking at your new school. Start sucking like, you know, you're supposed to and that should resolve the problem.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll get right to work on that. If I manage to pull straight Ds this year, I might end up just a bit above median, and then this article can be right :lol:


I understand your reaction to the article. I hate when academic studies draw conclusions that are clearly stretching the data.
Now what I think would be an interesting study is gathering data on both transfer performance at the new school and hiring results in comparison with those of equivalent class standing who chose not to transfer.

Don't you think this would draw up the problem that 2L and 3L classes are not weighted on a strict curve? Also that, the relative importance of grades diminishes greatly after OCI?

d34d9823
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Re: A Challenge to the Conventional Wisdom to Chase Prestige

Postby d34d9823 » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:23 pm

skoobily doobily wrote:Don't you think this would draw up the problem that 2L and 3L classes are not weighted on a strict curve? Also that, the relative importance of grades diminishes greatly after OCI?

I thought of that, but:
- The point isn't whether they're strictly curved, it's whether they tend to be higher curved on average. If this is the case, then transfer students would have a bit of an advantage.
- The importance of grades is a red herring, as transfer students experience the same decrease in incentive that everyone else does.

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skoobily doobily
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Re: A Challenge to the Conventional Wisdom to Chase Prestige

Postby skoobily doobily » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:32 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
skoobily doobily wrote:Don't you think this would draw up the problem that 2L and 3L classes are not weighted on a strict curve? Also that, the relative importance of grades diminishes greatly after OCI?

I thought of that, but:
- The point isn't whether they're strictly curved, it's whether they tend to be higher curved on average. If this is the case, then transfer students would have a bit of an advantage.
- The importance of grades is a red herring, as transfer students experience the same decrease in incentive that everyone else does.


aaaah, I misread the premise presh set for the supposed study. Very well, I allow you to proceed with said study.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: A Challenge to the Conventional Wisdom to Chase Prestige

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:42 pm

First of all: at many schools, the majority of 2L and 3L classes are on the same curve that 1L classes are on. Seminars are typically "off the curve," but no professor just gives blanket As, and they are encouraged to largely follow the curve. Personally, my lowest grades have been in "non-curved" classes - because seminars rely on a different skill-set than traditional law school classes.

That said, I will say that transfers as a whole seem to approach 2L with a little more fervor than "native" 2Ls, because we (typically) feel like we have something to prove. But tbh, ITE, people don't just "give up" on 2L/3L classes anymore. I doubt it was ever the case, but it certainly isn't now.




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