Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

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Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Yes
8
23%
No
11
31%
Only if out at T14
16
46%
 
Total votes: 35

utopian_grrl
Posts: 39
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Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby utopian_grrl » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:32 pm

I've been reading a few comments on the forum and it seems that quite a few people believe that, for a school outside of the 100, Howard is pretty great for OCIs and national job placement.

My GPA is a few tenths above the median and Howard's LSAT average is close to the general avg. So, I hope to get several points above that score with minimal stress and possibly get some scholarship money.

The tuition is relatively cheap and the location is ideal for internships. And, because in-state and out-of-state status is the same, I could move around in the summer without fear of loosing a tentative in-state (or District) tuition.

If I have the potential to get accepted into a mid-lower T14 school (ie: Berkeley, Cornell), yet have a cheaper, less stressful and more convenient option in Howard, is the latter option worth seriously thinking about?

d34d9823
Posts: 1915
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby d34d9823 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:49 pm

In b4 PDaddy.

Also, I would think T14>Howard>T25

Aqualibrium
Posts: 2011
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby Aqualibrium » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:52 pm

For the 25-30 students that have a real shot at a job with those 500 oci employers its worth it. I personally would, and did, turn down Howard for a large scholarship at a t30 or better.

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merichard87
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby merichard87 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:03 pm

Howard is a good school for URMs but I probably would only go there if i wanted to be in DC and didn't get into Georgetown.

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cynthia rose
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby cynthia rose » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:02 am

merichard87 wrote:Howard is a good school for URMs but I probably would only go there if i wanted to be in DC and didn't get into Georgetown.

Wait, are you saying Howard's placement is more regional, or are you just referring to the idea of living in DC for 3 years?

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merichard87
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby merichard87 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:27 am

I'm referring to my personal preferences. I wouldn't call Howard regional but I would'nt really throw it in the national ranks either. It can expose you to firms you would never have a chance at going to a different school of similiar rank but because my numbers could get me to a better school than Howard the only reason I would go there is if I wanted to be in DC for networking purposes or something.

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romothesavior
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:32 am

IMO, while Howard may bring in a good number of firms to OCI looking for diversity hires, I would wager a guess that firms will hire deeper into the classes at T20s-30s for URMs than they would at Howard. In other words, if I were a URM, I'd rather be median/sub-median at UIUC than median/sub-median at Howard.

That's what I've always heard thrown around on TLS. Someone more knowledgeable please verify or deny.

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merichard87
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby merichard87 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:35 am

romothesavior wrote:IMO, while Howard may bring in a good number of firms to OCI looking for diversity hires, I would wager a guess that firms will hire deeper into the classes at T20s-30s for URMs than they would at Howard. In other words, if I were a URM, I'd rather be median/sub-median at UIUC than median/sub-median at Howard.

That's what I've always heard thrown around on TLS. Someone more knowledgeable please verify or deny.


Strategy wise you are probably better off where you are the most unique so I would agree with Romo's statement.

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cynthia rose
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby cynthia rose » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:18 am

merichard87 wrote:I'm referring to my personal preferences. I wouldn't call Howard regional but I would'nt really throw it in the national ranks either. It can expose you to firms you would never have a chance at going to a different school of similiar rank but because my numbers could get me to a better school than Howard the only reason I would go there is if I wanted to be in DC for networking purposes or something.

Ah, I see. I agree, that makes sense. I have heard romo's sentiment before and I too thought that was a common opinion, to a certain extent.

So how low does one have to go in ranking before Howard starts to pull even with or ahead of a school? For example, coming out of GWU around median probably > median out of Howard, but then I would think once you get down to American or GMU this is where Howard starts to gain an advantage. T14 pretty much trumps all, but once I get past that everything becomes really hard to gauge for me.

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merichard87
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby merichard87 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:00 pm

From what I've seen and heard about Howard's OCI they pull really heavily for the DC and NY firms. I'm from Texas and want to end up back in Texas so theres really no reason for me to go to Howard when I can go to a school in my region of choice ranked similiarly to Howard or a higher ranked "national" school.

If you are URM and want to end up in biglaw NYC or DC and don't have T14 numbers thats when I would start thinking of Howard.


Disclaimer: These are my opinions.

utopian_grrl
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:48 pm

Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby utopian_grrl » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:47 pm

Thanks for all the comments.
So, Howard seems to be a good choice if 1) I don't get into a T14 or a solidly ranked regional school 2) don't mind the possibility of a NY or DC career and 3) can finish near the top portion of my class.

The Howard vs. higher ranked strong regional school debate still seems a bit uncertain, but I guess looking at the OCI data (anyone know where I can find this) for schools can help reconcile this.

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pkpop
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby pkpop » Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:57 pm

Well are you looking specifically for biglaw in big city, or just a regionally placed firm job somewhere?

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Drake014
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby Drake014 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:56 pm

utopian_grrl wrote:I've been reading a few comments on the forum and it seems that quite a few people believe that, for a school outside of the 100, Howard is pretty great for OCIs and national job placement.

My GPA is a few tenths above the median and Howard's LSAT average is close to the general avg. So, I hope to get several points above that score with minimal stress and possibly get some scholarship money.

The tuition is relatively cheap and the location is ideal for internships. And, because in-state and out-of-state status is the same, I could move around in the summer without fear of loosing a tentative in-state (or District) tuition.

If I have the potential to get accepted into a mid-lower T14 school (ie: Berkeley, Cornell), yet have a cheaper, less stressful and more convenient option in Howard, is the latter option worth seriously thinking about?


Its hard to give you advice on this. If you'd be near the top at Howard and near the bottom at the T14 or T25, I'd say go Howard. If you're going to be near the bottom at both, go T14 or T25. Unfortunately, you probably have very little idea as to where you'll rank until you start law school.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Is Howard REALLY that great for URMs?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:22 pm

No. Howard is not worth the gamble.

You will not find any OCI results for Howard. You will also not find any for URM's at particular schools. All that is available is information shared from 1/2/3L's to 0L's about how successful URM's are or are not at their respective schools.

A lot of people interview at Howard, but if you aren't in the top 10-20%, you are treated as though you attended any other T3. For example, look at Howard's Martindale results. It only has 1,682 results (Martindale.com is a search engine that allows you to search the number of alumni from various schools and where they work. If someone is not listed on the website, they likely do not have a good legal position).

Let's compare schools:

Howard: 1,682
Tulane: 6,432
American: 9,206
SMU: 6,525
Fordham: 9,687
Wake Forest: 4,169

Do you see pattern here?

Let's continue:

Howard (again): 1,682
Texas Southern: 1,353
Florida A&M: 71
North Carolina Central: 1,138
U of Mississippi: 4,543
Loyola New Orleans: 3,390
University of Arkansas (combined): 4,905
University of Montana: 1,799
etc.

Do you see the pattern?




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