Best Law School in the South

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emorystud2010
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby emorystud2010 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:14 pm

romothesavior wrote:
vanburen81 wrote:Duke does definielty have better lay prestige than UVA, but UVA may place just as well as Duke at the larger Southern firms, I don't really know. Basically I think it can be summed up this way -- if you want to work at a medium or large firm in B'Ham, Jackson, Baton Rouge, Charlotte, Jacksonville, etc. either go to the state school, or go to Vandy/Duke/UVA and have ties, or (maybe) go to W & L, Emory, Tulane, Wake and do well in school and have ties. But don't go to UGA hoping for Mississippi just because it's ranked higher than Ole Miss, or Bama over LSU b/c of rankings.


I'd say this is somewhat credited. Other factors like scholarships/total cost are important to keep and mind, and there are going to be some oddities as well (like Emory getting OCI-pwnd this year), but I think you are generally correct.


:(

vanburen81
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby vanburen81 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:17 pm

romothesavior wrote:
vanburen81 wrote:Duke does definielty have better lay prestige than UVA, but UVA may place just as well as Duke at the larger Southern firms, I don't really know. Basically I think it can be summed up this way -- if you want to work at a medium or large firm in B'Ham, Jackson, Baton Rouge, Charlotte, Jacksonville, etc. either go to the state school, or go to Vandy/Duke/UVA and have ties, or (maybe) go to W & L, Emory, Tulane, Wake and do well in school and have ties. But don't go to UGA hoping for Mississippi just because it's ranked higher than Ole Miss, or Bama over LSU b/c of rankings.


I'd say this is somewhat credited. Other factors like scholarships/total cost are important to keep and mind, and there are going to be some oddities as well (like Emory getting OCI-pwnd this year), but I think you are generally correct.


Yeah, don't know what's up with Emory. It's OCI numbers obviously mean less firms from NYC/D.C. coming down, but it probably also means less firms from Charlotte, Birmingham, Nashville, etc. coming.

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skoobily doobily
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby skoobily doobily » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:49 pm

For those of you retards arguing semantics. Southern schools are synonymous for culturally southern schools, so like every state that lost the civil war. So no Texas, and no Florida (I don't even know why any school in Florida was in the discussion to begin with).

If you want to rank them, NLJ percentages are never a bad place to start:
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1
UVA 52.8%
Duke 49.8%
Vanderbilt 47.1%
Emory 23.5%
Wake Forest 20%
UGA 15.8%
UNC 15%

Given UVA's excellent clerkship reputation, and the fact that they still put a higher number in Biglaw makes them clearly the best school in the south. It is pretty evident as well that their are only 3 truly elite schools in the south, as Vanderbilt just managed to double Emory's placement.

It is interesting to see people's ragging on Emory for the number of firms at OCI, when their pre-ITE numbers were near identical
http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/composite.pdf
Last edited by skoobily doobily on Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vanburen81
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby vanburen81 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:56 pm

skoobily doobily wrote:For those of you retards arguing semantics. Southern schools are synonymous for culturally southern schools, so like every state that lost the civil war. So no Texas, and no Florida (I don't even know why any school in Florida was in the discussion to begin with).

If you want to rank them, NLJ percentages are never a bad place to start:

UVA 52.8%
Duke 49.8%
Vanderbilt 47.1%
Emory 23.5%
Wake Forest 20%
UGA 15.8%
UNC 15%

Given UVA's excellent clerkship reputation, and the fact that they still put a higher number in Biglaw makes them clearly the best school in the south. It is pretty evident as well that their are only 3 truly elite schools in the south, as Vanderbilt just managed to double Emory's placement.


Texas DID fight with the South in the Civil War. I believe Florida did too, it was just basically a swamp and no one lived there though. Ans if you've ever been to the Florida panhandle you'd know it's a lot more culturally Southern than Northern Virginia.

The NLJ percentages are for firms throughout the country -- not just in the South. So if we're ranking best schools IN the South then sure, but we're ranking best schools FOR the South then not really relevent.

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DaveBear07
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby DaveBear07 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:58 pm

Is Texas not included in the above because we somehow won the Civil War?

Anyways, this is a bizarre thread.

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skoobily doobily
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby skoobily doobily » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:59 pm

vanburen81 wrote:Texas DID fight with the South in the Civil War. I believe Florida did too, it was just basically a swamp and no one lived there though. Ans if you've ever been to the Florida panhandle you'd know it's a lot more culturally Southern than Northern Virginia.

HistoryFAIL. vanburen-1 Skoobily-0
vanburen81 wrote:The NLJ percentages are for firms throughout the country -- not just in the South. So if we're ranking best schools IN the South then sure, but we're ranking best schools FOR the South then not really relevent.

read the title of the thread. vanburen-1 Skoobily-1
Last edited by skoobily doobily on Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MJMD
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby MJMD » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:00 pm

skoobily doobily wrote:For those of you retards arguing semantics. Southern schools are synonymous for culturally southern schools, so like every state that lost the civil war. So no Texas, and no Florida (I don't even know why any school in Florida was in the discussion to begin with).


For those of you retards who don't know even the most rudimentary facts about American history, please stop using semantics, or phonics, or any other element of speech, to form words, because really no one wants to see them.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby jawsthegreat » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:01 pm

showNprove wrote:
vanburen81 wrote:
MJMD wrote:
vanburen81 wrote:The schools which have some name recognition and might get you to a different Southern state (but only if you also have ties to that state) are (1st level) Duke and Vanderbilt, (2nd level) Virginia and Washington and Lee, (3rd level) Emory, Tulane, Wake, UNC.


Why is everyone in here extolling Duke over Virginia? Is it just because it's private? Virginia has the higher USNWR ranking and kicks Duke's ass when it comes to both federal clerkships and BigLaw hiring. It's also the local state school in Virginia, making it dominant within that state in a way that Duke and Vanderbilt cannot necessarily claim in North Carolina or Tennesse. What am I missing here?


UVA might be a better school than Duke. It might place better in Biglaw and federal clerkships. But if I was looking for a job at a private firm in Alabama or Louisiana I'd rather be median at Duke than median at UVA. Duke just has much better name recognition in the South. If you're from Bama and trying to get a job at a firm in B'ham and you went to UVA, people would be like, maybe UVA's a good school but why didn't you go to U Bama? I just think its different if said person went to Duke. UVA is kind of special though because I think it is the ONLY state school that will get to other Southern states. UGA and Bama and even UNC may be great schools, but people in Arkansas would take their Razorbacks over them anyday, people in South Carolina will take their Game Cocks, etc.

LOL. You have no idea. Alabama firms flock to UVa. There's one that comes every year to hire 4-5 UVa 1L's, let alone upperclassmen. Birmingham has a fetish for UVa students.


Mind sharing which firm that is with this soon to be UVA 1L, with Alabama ties...

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skoobily doobily
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby skoobily doobily » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:02 pm

MJMD wrote:
skoobily doobily wrote:For those of you retards arguing semantics. Southern schools are synonymous for culturally southern schools, so like every state that lost the civil war. So no Texas, and no Florida (I don't even know why any school in Florida was in the discussion to begin with).


For those of you retards who don't know even the most rudimentary facts about American history, please stop using semantics, or phonics, or any other element of speech, to form words, because really no one wants to see them.


Hahahahahaha, you're good at tearing people down bro, you should do it more often.

MJMD
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby MJMD » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:05 pm

skoobily doobily wrote:
MJMD wrote:
skoobily doobily wrote:For those of you retards arguing semantics. Southern schools are synonymous for culturally southern schools, so like every state that lost the civil war. So no Texas, and no Florida (I don't even know why any school in Florida was in the discussion to begin with).


For those of you retards who don't know even the most rudimentary facts about American history, please stop using semantics, or phonics, or any other element of speech, to form words, because really no one wants to see them.


Hahahahahaha, you're good at tearing people down bro, you should do it more often.


Thanks. I try.

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Cupidity
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby Cupidity » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:11 pm

Depends what you mean by South, but despite Duke's rank and what members on this board seem to think, in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama and Mississippi--best law school is Emory If by south you mean Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina and that region, then its a toss up between Duke and Vanderbilt.

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romothesavior
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:14 pm

romothesavior wrote:Why is this so contentious?

UVA, Duke, Vandy/Texas.

/Thread


This is one of the most incredibly inane arguments I've seen in a while.

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romothesavior
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:15 pm

Cupidity wrote:Depends what you mean by South, but despite Duke's rank and what members on this board seem to think, in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama and Mississippi--best law school is Emory. If by south you mean Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina and that region, then its a toss up between Duke and Vanderbilt.


False. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be a world of false.

vanburen81
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby vanburen81 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:17 pm

Cupidity wrote:Depends what you mean by South, but despite Duke's rank and what members on this board seem to think, in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama and Mississippi--best law school is Emory If by south you mean Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina and that region, then its a toss up between Duke and Vanderbilt.


No. I am sure that Vandy > Emory in Alabama and Mississippi law placement. Certainly Duke > Emory in terms of lay prestige in those states as well. I'm not very familiar with South Carolina.

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romothesavior
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:19 pm

Anyone who thinks Emory is better than Duke (MASSIVE LOL @ THAT) or even Vandy, let me point you here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=123174

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stratocophic
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby stratocophic » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:26 pm

romothesavior wrote:Anyone who thinks Emory is better than Duke (MASSIVE LOL @ THAT) or even Vandy, let me point you here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=123174
*winces* This seems... harsh. Lulzy, but harsh.

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General Tso
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby General Tso » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:41 pm

stratocophic wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Anyone who thinks Emory is better than Duke (MASSIVE LOL @ THAT) or even Vandy, let me point you here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=123174
*winces* This seems... harsh. Lulzy, but harsh.


Judging by OCI results, Emory may not even be better than Tulane.

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skoobily doobily
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby skoobily doobily » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:03 pm

General Tso wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Anyone who thinks Emory is better than Duke (MASSIVE LOL @ THAT) or even Vandy, let me point you here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=123174
*winces* This seems... harsh. Lulzy, but harsh.


Judging by OCI results, Emory may not even be better than Tulane.


Wait, you have this years OCI results already?? Please do tell.

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General Tso
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby General Tso » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:07 pm

skoobily doobily wrote:
General Tso wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Anyone who thinks Emory is better than Duke (MASSIVE LOL @ THAT) or even Vandy, let me point you here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=123174
*winces* This seems... harsh. Lulzy, but harsh.


Judging by OCI results, Emory may not even be better than Tulane.


Wait, you have this years OCI results already?? Please do tell.


Number of firms interviewing at Tulane is about 60. At Emory it is something like 20-30.

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skoobily doobily
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby skoobily doobily » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:31 pm

General Tso wrote:
Number of firms interviewing at Tulane is about 60. At Emory it is something like 20-30.


Hmm, I'll have to work on my e-sarcasm, but my point is: number of firms at a schools OCI is a fairly arbitrary way to measure how good a school's job prospects are.

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romothesavior
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:34 pm

skoobily doobily wrote:
General Tso wrote:
Number of firms interviewing at Tulane is about 60. At Emory it is something like 20-30.


Hmm, I'll have to work on my e-sarcasm, but my point is: number of firms at a schools OCI is a fairly arbitrary way to measure how good a school's job prospects are.


True to a point, but ~30 firms at a T20 is absolutely atrocious. Especially one in a decent-sized market.

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General Tso
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby General Tso » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:56 pm

romothesavior wrote:
skoobily doobily wrote:
General Tso wrote:
Number of firms interviewing at Tulane is about 60. At Emory it is something like 20-30.


Hmm, I'll have to work on my e-sarcasm, but my point is: number of firms at a schools OCI is a fairly arbitrary way to measure how good a school's job prospects are.


True to a point, but ~30 firms at a T20 is absolutely atrocious. Especially one in a decent-sized market.


yah dude...everyone knows that it's quite possible for a school with 1/2 as many firms recruiting can, in fact, place better than a school offering 2x as many interviews.

Possible but highly unlikely. My impression is that most firms go in with a set number to hire from each school. At my school each firm is looking to hire between 2 and 4 SAs out of 20 interviews. Now its possible that each firm interviewing at Emory is looking to hire 2x as many students as those interviewing at Tulane, but I think it's pretty unlikely.

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skoobily doobily
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby skoobily doobily » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:09 pm

romothesavior wrote:
skoobily doobily wrote:
General Tso wrote:
Number of firms interviewing at Tulane is about 60. At Emory it is something like 20-30.


Hmm, I'll have to work on my e-sarcasm, but my point is: number of firms at a schools OCI is a fairly arbitrary way to measure how good a school's job prospects are.


True to a point, but ~30 firms at a T20 is absolutely atrocious. Especially one in a decent-sized market.


It definitely doesn't sound pretty, but % of students with SA's and NLJ jobs at graduation are the metrics to look at. If 60 firms show up to tulane looking for top 10% students, lots of firms simply won't give any SAs. If 29 firms show up to emory (including nearly every major firm in atlanta) looking to higher through the top quarter, emory will still fair better. The OCI numbers need to be qualified with more data, and standing alone are fairly useless to a degree. Which is why people need to stop crying bloody murder about emory until more relevant stats come in.

vanburen81
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby vanburen81 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:12 pm

BTW, has Wake's, SMU's and W & L's OCI numbers come out? I don't remember seeing them on that other thread. How do they compare with Emory and Tulane?

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romothesavior
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Re: Best Law School in the South

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:14 pm

skoobily doobily wrote:It definitely doesn't sound pretty, but % of students with SA's and NLJ jobs at graduation are the metrics to look at. If 60 firms show up to tulane looking for top 10% students, lots of firms simply won't give any SAs. If 29 firms show up to emory (including nearly every major firm in atlanta) looking to higher through the top quarter, emory will still fair better. The OCI numbers need to be qualified with more data, and standing alone are fairly useless to a degree. Which is why people need to stop crying bloody murder about emory until more relevant stats come in.


I agree that having that data would be nice, but unfortunately it will be years before we have that NLJ data for you.

And yes, an Emory vs. Tulane comparison would be difficult for the reason you mentioned, but Emory v. WUSTL/ND/UIUC/BU etc. comparison wouldn't be totally useless. If employers are looking to hire top 25% from Emory, why wouldn't they be looking at at least a similar number for their T20 peers like WUSTL, BU, UIUC, etc.? And as we see, WUSTL and BU (dunno about UIUC) have FAR more firms coming to OCI. As an Emory student, that would scare the heck outta me.

Not saying this is conclusive, and I agree we need % of class with SAs and NLJ numbers to take a concrete position, but it is at least troubling that so many firms are pulling out of Emory while peer schools are maintaining far higher numbers.




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