University of Michigan v. University of Texas Forum

[mpasi]

To be honest, I think I would be much happier in Austin than in Ann Arbor. From everything I have read and from talking to people, Austin is different than Texas as a whole and is one of the coolest cities in America. I have lived in Ann Arbor before and am impartial toward it.

Also, this. While I do like Ann Arbor, I've never met anybody who is from, or has been through Austin, who hasn't gushed about how great the city is.

Austin isn't what it used to be, FYI. It's barely a shadow of its former self. IDK why. I voted for UT because it makes more financial sense to go to the school that will leave you with less debt, but it sounds like you've made up your mind already. Go where you think you'll be happy.

[catharsis]

Michigan is a couple of tiers above Texas, worth passing up $80k. I think it would be tougher if we were discussing closer to a full ride, although a half-ride is pretty tempting.

A couple of tiers? Come on, man. We're talking about two schools that are respected very highly nationally. Texas is #15; Michigan is #9. We're not talking about taking Cooley on scholly, or UVA at sticker here. The two schools are pretty closely ranked. The magical separation on t14 may not be worth almost $100k. You'd be able to land a job outside of Texas from UT-Austin, if you performed well in law school. You just might have to rely on your on networking a bit more.

Ann Arbor is a cool town, but so is Austin. I vote take the money at Austin if the gpa requirement isn't particularly restrictive.

Have you been on campus visits? It would be worth visiting each campus and making a gut decision from everything you see. I wouldn't attend any school without a chance to walk around their campus.

lol i thought the same thing when i read Knock's post.

[drdolittle]

I think this is a no brainer for UT, at least it would be for me. First, Austin has great QOL. Second, the difference between these two schools is not that vast, it's not like you're considering Y/H/S vs. UT, so job prospects on paper are similar, with UT being significantly cheaper. And unlike a lot of other states, TX has not been hit as hard by the economy and UT dominates there so having a foothold in TX will likely give you more fall back options than Mich. Overall, two solid choices though, which you should decide on based on location/cost/personal fit after visiting rather than ranking.

[Bentley7]

Just wanted to give this a weekday bump to get any final thoughts and/or new information.

[kalvano]

University of Texas with approximately $80,000 in scholarship and/or grant money for the class of 2013

or

University of Michigan at in-state sticker (not a major difference) for the class of 2014

Does that mean the cost of the two schools is equal, or almost so?

If that, UMich easily.

[TCScrutinizer]

University of Texas with approximately $80,000 in scholarship and/or grant money for the class of 2013

or

University of Michigan at in-state sticker (not a major difference) for the class of 2014

Does that mean the cost of the two schools is equal, or almost so?

If that, UMich easily.

Their costs are virtually the same pre-scholarship. After scholarship Texas is obviously less expensive.

[sophia.olive]

University of Texas with approximately $80,000 in scholarship and/or grant money for the class of 2013

or

University of Michigan at in-state sticker (not a major difference) for the class of 2014

Does that mean the cost of the two schools is equal, or almost so?

If that, UMich easily.

^
U of Texas: Rejected



Austin is wonderful. Save yourself 80,000.

[sophia.olive]

He means in-state compared to out of state.

[TommyK]

He means in-state compared to out of state.

Eh, Michigan is weird. It's a public/private hybrid. The difference of tuition between instate and out-of-state is much less than most public schools. I think it's a couple thou difference.

One other thing - does the scholly at Texas have a GPA/ranking stipulation attached to it?

[Bentley7]

No the Texas Scholarship has no GPA requirement and in-state tution at U of M is still $43,000.

[TommyK]

No the Texas Scholarship has no GPA requirement and in-state tution at U of M is still $43,000.

So UT would be about $17k/yr and UM would be $43k/yr.

At this point, you know all you can know and you've gotten all the opinions from people who don't matter. It's a value judgement at this point. I'm somewhat debt-averse because it allows me to have more options later in life, as opposed to being forced to take a big law job. You'll be looking at graduating with about $90k debt (UT) or $180k debt (UM). I'm of the opinion there's no objectively wrong decision, but I'd slightly favor UT.

Good luck!

[kalvano]

I don't think UMich is worth $90K more than UT.

[MJMD]

Texas is offering you an enormous amount of money, more than enough to make up for the difference in the USNWR ranking between the schools. It's also been noted that Austin is rather more fun than Ann Arbor (not to mention warmer all year round: no freezing, frozen winters or seasonal affective depression to get in the way of the 1L grades you need).

As for whether or not you wish to work in Texas, by the time you graduate you may not have any choice. Take a look at these maps showing net migration to Texas:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexch ... /migration

Texas has weathered the recession better than any other state in the union: in fact, they have effectively escaped the recession entirely. Your prospects for employment there in the future are certainly going to be much better than in Michigan. If indeed Michigan is substantially superior for out-of-state placement (if Texas' numbers aren't primarily the result of self-selection, as I suspect they are), it's because it has to be.

There's also no reason to delay going to law school for a year, as your earnings after graduation should be substantially more than your earnings before. You only need to earn money beforehand if you turn down the scholarship money at Texas in favour of Michigan. So that's another strong reason to choose Texas.

However: that having been said, I would base my decision primarily on the difference in culture that you are likely to find between the two schools. While both schools have large entering class sizes, I would be certain that the sheer enormity of Texas is something you can handle. And there's no denying that Michigan has one of the most beautiful law campuses in the United States. These, and the quality of instruction, could make a substantial difference in how much you enjoy attending either school, and enjoying your law school experience is key to excelling at it. I think all of the other factors even out with the edge going to Texas: these final academic and aesthetic considerations should form the basis for your decision.

[FlightoftheEarls]

I need some opinions to the following situation:

University of Texas with approximately $80,000 in scholarship and/or grant money for the class of 2013

or

University of Michigan at in-state sticker (not a major difference) for the class of 2014

I have a good legal related job for the year in between if I do decide to take a year off. Additionally, I am unsure of where I want to work and have never been to Texas but for two days.

Thank you for your guys input. At this point, I am also leaning toward Michigan because of the following:

-I am not sure that I want to work in Texas and/or that I will like living there
-Michigan is the higher ranked school with more prestige
-Because I do not know where I want to work it seems as though Michigan has more national reach
-Michigan's Loan Repayment Program seems better

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated as this is certainly one of the toughest decisions I have ever came across in my life

Another point that I would like to add is that I want to work in Big Law.

People are putting in their personal biases throughout this thread, which is great. Yet nobody arguing for UT, or oddly enough for Austin as a city, seems to have noticed that you clearly just want some reinforcement that Michigan is the right choice for you, despite the increased debt you'll be taking on.

Obviously I also have a personal bias, but it sounds like you just want to hear that taking Michigan with additional debt is worth it. From everything you've written above, it sounds like you should remove yourself from the awful economy by one more year and enjoy the school you want to be at. If you want to maximize your biglaw chances and have the safety of the LRAP to fall back on, it sounds like you've already made your choice.

/end Michigan trolling

Best of luck with the decision!

[romothesavior]

Michigan is about 6 places higher than Texas. Now if you were to add six to michigan you would be at harvard. So would you go to michigan over harvard for $80,000?.

This is not how to compare schools. At all.

Michigan....unless you want to work in Texas the choice is obvious.

TCR.

[mirdamad]

I need some opinions to the following situation:

University of Texas with approximately $80,000 in scholarship and/or grant money for the class of 2013

or

University of Michigan at in-state sticker (not a major difference) for the class of 2014

I have a good legal related job for the year in between if I do decide to take a year off. Additionally, I am unsure of where I want to work and have never been to Texas but for two days.

Thank you for your guys input. At this point, I am also leaning toward Michigan because of the following:

-I am not sure that I want to work in Texas and/or that I will like living there
-Michigan is the higher ranked school with more prestige
-Because I do not know where I want to work it seems as though Michigan has more national reach
-Michigan's Loan Repayment Program seems better

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated as this is certainly one of the toughest decisions I have ever came across in my life

Another point that I would like to add is that I want to work in Big Law.

People are putting in their personal biases throughout this thread, which is great. Yet nobody arguing for UT, or oddly enough for Austin as a city, seems to have noticed that you clearly just want some reinforcement that Michigan is the right choice for you, despite the increased debt you'll be taking on.

Obviously I also have a personal bias, but it sounds like you just want to hear that taking Michigan with additional debt is worth it. From everything you've written above, it sounds like you should remove yourself from the awful economy by one more year and enjoy the school you want to be at. If you want to maximize your biglaw chances and have the safety of the LRAP to fall back on, it sounds like you've already made your choice.

/end Michigan trolling

Best of luck with the decision!

I am not sure that I want some reinforcement that Michigan is the right choice for me. I think I actually want some reinforcement that Texas can provide me the national reach that I may want assuming I perform well. Who knows- I may go to Texas and absolutely love it there and want to work in Dallas, Houston, and/or Austin, its just hard for me to say that having been in Texas for only two days during admitted student weekend.

In this regard, I do know that ITE if I do not perform well in Michigan, I will not have any sort of national reach.

[romothesavior]

I am not sure that I want some reinforcement that Michigan is the right choice for me. I think I actually want some reinforcement that Texas can provide me the national reach that I may want assuming I perform well. Who knows- I may go to Texas and absolutely love it there and want to work in Dallas, Houston, and/or Austin, its just hard for me to say that having been in Texas for only two days during admitted student weekend.

In this regard, I do know that ITE if I do not perform well in Michigan, I will not have any sort of national reach.

Who are you? In all of your posts ITT, you sound and talk like the OP, but you are not the OP.

[kalvano]

I absolutely hate living in Texas. And I would still take UT over UMich with that kind of monetary difference. UT has the reputation to take you most places, and all the big firms come there for OCI.

[mirdamad]

I am not sure that I want some reinforcement that Michigan is the right choice for me. I think I actually want some reinforcement that Texas can provide me the national reach that I may want assuming I perform well. Who knows- I may go to Texas and absolutely love it there and want to work in Dallas, Houston, and/or Austin, its just hard for me to say that having been in Texas for only two days during admitted student weekend.

In this regard, I do know that ITE if I do not perform well in Michigan, I will not have any sort of national reach.

Who are you? In all of your posts ITT, you sound and talk like the OP, but you are not the OP.

Sorry... I have two accounts set up and never remember which one I am logged onto

[MJMD]

In this regard, I do know that ITE if I do not perform well in Michigan, I will not have any sort of national reach.

That's very much the case at Texas, also, which is why taking your class size into account is very important. 360 at Michigan vs. 425 at Texas may not seem like a great difference, but 425 is really a singularly huge class size for any law school. This may or may not make the competition much more intense at Texas. If that's something you're comfortable with, and you also think that you would enjoy learning from the professors at Texas as much as those at Michigan, then I think you should probably go to Texas: if not, then Michigan seems like a safer bet.

I think that both schools provide considerable national reach: it's just that Texans go to Texas, and most Texans couldn't imagine living anywhere other than Texas. Texas also has its own insular "BigLaw" culture centered around oil & gas that provides plenty of high-paying jobs for in-state graduates, so there's less need to move to NYC or Chicago or Los Angeles. Michigan, on the other hand, has been hollowed out so badly that leaving the state is practically mandatory, so why wouldn't you shoot for NYC or Chicago or L.A. Michigan definitely gets you a little further, but I think that Texas would be very, very close, were it not for self-selection.

[FlightoftheEarls]

I am not sure that I want some reinforcement that Michigan is the right choice for me. I think I actually want some reinforcement that Texas can provide me the national reach that I may want assuming I perform well. Who knows- I may go to Texas and absolutely love it there and want to work in Dallas, Houston, and/or Austin, its just hard for me to say that having been in Texas for only two days during admitted student weekend.

In this regard, I do know that ITE if I do not perform well in Michigan, I will not have any sort of national reach.

Texas is a great school and if you quite perform well there, you'll be fine. The Texas degree also has mobility - its Texas placement is largely self-selection, but not entirely a result of it. You'll probably need to be higher in your class at Texas if you want that degree to move you to major markets around the country, especially ITE. If you're content staying in Texas, then that's certainly the right choice given that scholarship. Otherwise, it's a question of which you feel more comfortable with: Lots of debt with a somewhat better biglaw chance (with an LRAP to fall back on), or fairly substantial debt (after COL) with a smaller biglaw window (with an LRAP to fall back on).

Best of luck to you on the decision, I know it's a tough one. You really can't go wrong either way.

[doinmybest]

Another point that I would like to add is that I want to work in Big Law.

Edit your OP to include this information and watch the Michigan votes skyrocket.

[03121202698008]

I am not sure that I want some reinforcement that Michigan is the right choice for me. I think I actually want some reinforcement that Texas can provide me the national reach that I may want assuming I perform well. Who knows- I may go to Texas and absolutely love it there and want to work in Dallas, Houston, and/or Austin, its just hard for me to say that having been in Texas for only two days during admitted student weekend.

In this regard, I do know that ITE if I do not perform well in Michigan, I will not have any sort of national reach.

Who are you? In all of your posts ITT, you sound and talk like the OP, but you are not the OP.

Sorry... I have two accounts set up and never remember which one I am logged onto

You may want to e-mail a mod and ask that one be deleted. Having an alternate account is a bannable offense.

As to your question, Texas does not have as much national reach as Michigan. Your options would be good if you did well but you cannot count on that in law school.

If you want Big Law...Michigan all day long. That was information that was not in your OP that would vastly change this poll's results.

[Dany]

The biggest issue, for me, is that with Mich, you get to take one year off and gain substantive legal experience. That's huge, in my opinion. You will:
-see the legal profession more in-depth, and be able to start thinking about practice areas that interest you
-save some cash for law school (hopefully)
-have LEGAL work you can discuss during OCI, which I gather is especially helpful now that hiring's down
-ride out the economy a little bit. Of course no one can say for sure that OCI will be better in two years than it is next year, but I'm willing to bet it will be.

Is all that worth choosing Michigan? For me, it would be. Michigan is a marginally better school, but I think the benefits of waiting a year are worth the $80K.

Good luck in your decision!

[oscarthegrouch]

If you want biglaw, I'd go to Michigan. ITE, the differences among the tiers are getting larger.

Texas, the state, may not have been hit as much as other, larger legal markets, but most biglaw offices are in NYC, DC, and Chicago. There are a handful of biglaw Texas-based firms and most biglaw firms based in other states do not have have offices in Texas. You're going to have a much harder time going to NYC, DC, and Chicago from UT than Michigan because most biglaw offices do not recruit outside of OCI and a lot more non-TX biglaw offices recruit at Michigan than Texas. (Furthermore, mass mailing rarely works for biglaw because most biglaw firms recruit solely from OCI and career fairs.) Moreover, I think it would be beneficial in terms of OCI prospects to wait another year to begin law school.