Non-Lawyer for Law School

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Grizz
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby Grizz » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:12 pm

1Levening2013 wrote:i am not classifying myself in the CEO-dom crowd by any means, but i have 6+yrs of work experience, have big law+ salary, and am going to law school with little to no intention of practicing formally


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blsingindisguise
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:15 pm

1Levening2013 wrote:i am not classifying myself in the CEO-dom crowd by any means, but i have 6+yrs of work experience, have big law+ salary, and am going to law school with little to no intention of practicing formally


Do you have an offer to come back to your old workplace with your JD?

Otherwise, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?!

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Merr
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby Merr » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:27 pm

StewartG wrote:Are there any good reasons for going to law school for people who don't want to be lawyers?


Well if you are from an extremely wealthy family, don't like the idea of employment, and need to look productive for three years before you can get control of your trust fund law school is an excellent idea.

Other then that I'm drawing a blank.

1Levening2013
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby 1Levening2013 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:35 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
1Levening2013 wrote:i am not classifying myself in the CEO-dom crowd by any means, but i have 6+yrs of work experience, have big law+ salary, and am going to law school with little to no intention of practicing formally


Do you have an offer to come back to your old workplace with your JD?

Otherwise, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING?!


i go part-time, have one year down already (i.e. dont ever have to leave my job if i do not want to, little to not debt post graduation, etc)

namename
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby namename » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:57 pm

StewartG wrote:Are there any good reasons for going to law school for people who don't want to be lawyers?


It very much depends on what you would like to do with your career.

I can only speak from the vantage point of Washington, DC, but I know dozens of people who have JDs and are not practicing lawyers. For many of them, it was not a mistake. They are working as legislative counsels on Hill committees, policy analysts for nonprofits, or as lobbyists. A considerable number make great money at a respectable age.

You should ask yourself why you would like to go to law school, and how a JD will further your ambitions. Plenty of intelligent people spend $80k on places like SIPA to get a good job in the State Department. Other people spend $80k on a GW MPH to work at HHS or The Commonwealth Fund. In many fields, a law degree will allow you to skip a bunch of steps.

If you just want to make a lot of money, it probably isn't the most cost effective way to accomplish it. For other purposes, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

StewartG
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby StewartG » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:04 pm

1Levening2013 wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:
1Levening2013 wrote:i am not classifying myself in the CEO-dom crowd by any means, but i have 6+yrs of work experience, have big law+ salary, and am going to law school with little to no intention of practicing formally


Why are you going to law school?

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doinmybest
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby doinmybest » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:36 am

The answer is still no.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby Lawquacious » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:53 am

sundance95 wrote:Famous last words.
Image


:lol: Laughing at the sign

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Lawquacious
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby Lawquacious » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:01 am

I do think a JD can be a good background for a number of careers that don't involve practicing law (business and management, journalism, politics etc), but it's probably a good idea to have a considerable interest in studying the law and in doing SOMETHING that directly relates to law before deciding to go to law school.

Also, the ability to make a transition to a lucrative non-law career is a lot harder if you aren't at one of the very top schools from what I understand.

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Knock
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby Knock » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:34 am

1Levening2013 wrote:i am not classifying myself in the CEO-dom crowd by any means, but i have 6+yrs of work experience, have big law+ salary, and am going to law school with little to no intention of practicing formally


Image

--ImageRemoved--

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IAFG
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby IAFG » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:39 am

namename wrote:
StewartG wrote:Are there any good reasons for going to law school for people who don't want to be lawyers?


It very much depends on what you would like to do with your career.

I can only speak from the vantage point of Washington, DC, but I know dozens of people who have JDs and are not practicing lawyers. For many of them, it was not a mistake. They are working as legislative counsels on Hill committees, policy analysts for nonprofits, or as lobbyists. A considerable number make great money at a respectable age.

You should ask yourself why you would like to go to law school, and how a JD will further your ambitions. Plenty of intelligent people spend $80k on places like SIPA to get a good job in the State Department. Other people spend $80k on a GW MPH to work at HHS or The Commonwealth Fund. In many fields, a law degree will allow you to skip a bunch of steps.

If you just want to make a lot of money, it probably isn't the most cost effective way to accomplish it. For other purposes, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

i mean those jobs aren't strictly "practicing" but they are JD-required jobs. it's not really not being a lawyer

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clintonius
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby clintonius » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:19 am

I'm pretty ignorant about these sorts of jobs, but it strikes me as off to hear that policy analyst and lobbyist jobs are jd-required. Don't lots (most, even) of the people in those fields not have a JD? Isn't there even a separate graduate degree for policy work?

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:33 am

The really successful lobbyist that I know went to law school, so obviously, JD=BIG MONEY LOBBYIST!
Wait, he went to UVa.

So t14 JD= BIG MONEY LOBBYIST!
Wait, he was right outside of top 10% in class.

so t14 top 20%= BIG MONEY LOBBYIST!
Wait, he did big law for ten years before he could make the switch...

Etc etc. Sure I think there are plenty of non-law jobs open to JDs. But you probably need to be very succesful in the field of law first. I think even for most non prestegious jobs, You need to practice as a lawyer for a few years. And even if you don't, I think that you should be comfortable with the idea of being a lawyer, even if you don't plan on it.

Kind of like, don't pick a school you wouln't mind graduating from (even if you want to transfer).
Don't get a JD you wouldn't mind using as a lawyer (even if you want to do something else).

namename
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby namename » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:40 am

clintonius wrote:I'm pretty ignorant about these sorts of jobs, but it strikes me as off to hear that policy analyst and lobbyist jobs are jd-required. Don't lots (most, even) of the people in those fields not have a JD? Isn't there even a separate graduate degree for policy work?


Exactly right. My point wasn't that these are fields in which a JD is required. Rather, a JD is often considered a rough substitute for other advanced degrees, and obtaining one will typically allow you to jump ahead a few steps.

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maine08080
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby maine08080 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:19 am

If you have an obscene stash in the bank account and you decide that you want a JD just because, go right ahead. I am assuming that most of the people on TLS actually intend to go to law school to get a job in law and bust their balls for it. The OP and the rest of the real world obviously have vastly different problems.

rockstar4488
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby rockstar4488 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:00 pm

Some teachers in my area get JDs because it is the fastest and easiest way to get to the doctorate pay grade.

Addendum: I think this falls under the category of people who already have a successful career and are getting a JD with a specific goal of enhancing said career.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby TaipeiMort » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:30 pm

StewartG wrote:Are there any good reasons for going to law school for people who don't want to be lawyers?


Go into management consulting for Mckinsey or Bain right out of a T6 law school. You will have a strong point of differentiation between the normal crop of Northwestern, Harvard, Chicago, Stanford, and Wharton MBAs. This point of differentiation will allow you to 1) raise your salary far above that of a biglaw associate after several years, and 2) if you don't want to stay at your firm, have extremely good exit options after 8 or so years (VP of ____ at a fortune 500 company).

One of my mentors spent twenty years with Mckinsey and was offered a 8-figured salaried position to work as a president for a Fortune 500.

Also, I have another mentor who used his JD after consulting to become the Chief Strategy Officer and General Counsel of a mid-large aerospace firm.

However, one of them was a white guy who spoke Chinese fluently and the other also had a MBA strategy-emphasis from Yale.


So, maybe it was these things that differentiated them.

williemayshayes
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby williemayshayes » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:12 pm

If it's for free/dirt cheap...why the hell not.

Powerhouse regional schools starving for high-scoring applicants and dishing out scholly $$ like candy to attract the best students...FTW.

Slightly-off-topic-rant: How I miss the days when young people in this country chased their dreams with the authentically-American "damn the haters" mentality. And/or did stuff just because they felt like it...with eagerness to find out what the future held...rather than expectations with respect to outcome. The hallmark resourcefulness that defined every generation of young Americans (up until this one) is fading away into the history books, I am very sad to say. Resilience has given way to excuses. Silver lining - those of us who still have that old-school mentality will be far better off gobbling up all the opportunities out there whilst our peers wonder why things didn't turn out as planned.

Law school is way too expensive in this country. The common response for that is "high demand". The reason for THAT is countless people going to diploma mills, or taking grossly unjustified amounts of debt in the name of "projected earnings" which is easily in the top 10 for most absurd ideas I've ever heard. If less people took on debt loads in the name of "projected earnings", and instead made better economic decisions to attend cheaper schools. Or better yet, chose to study the law because they were geniunely interested in studying it. Things would be a LOT easier for those of us who have our heads where it needs to be...for the same reasons stated above. If people did law school to "chase a dream" or "just to do it". Because let's face it folks...no one's so dumb to do something "just to do it" if it'll cost you 150K. Those who are...well I'll assume your genitalia is made of steel.

I'm not absolving the OP...unless he's truly interested in becoming a lawyer, practicing or otherwise...and it just so happens that he has other interests which he'd rather pursue than being a practicing attorney. And if he has the opportunity to attend a good law school for dirt cheap/free...why not. You only live once. And it;s free/cheap so if you hate it, leave. If you love it...well hell, just add a few possibilities for what youngster can do with his life. Simple as that.

Get off the kid's back...and stop feeding into the vicious cycle of going to law school "because of the economy" or "for projected earnings" or "opening tons of doors after graduation". Go to law school to study the law, and be prepared for whatever opportunities present themselves...and for the love of God, don't take out 150K unless its for one of the truly prestigious "can't miss" national schools that have LRAP. The country will be a better place when our generation loses this absurd sense of entitlement that things should be a certain way upon the completion of a given endeavor, and if it's not that way, it was a bonehead move.

//End rant.

And a BIG BIG co-sign to the poster above me who discussed management consulting. A very slept on career path, IMO.

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Lawof_theLand
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby Lawof_theLand » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:40 pm

williemayshayes wrote:If it's for free/dirt cheap...why the hell not.

Slightly-off-topic-rant: How I miss the days when young people in this country chased their dreams with the authentically-American "damn the haters" mentality. And/or did stuff just because they felt like it...with eagerness to find out what the future held...rather than expectations with respect to outcome. The hallmark resourcefulness that defined every generation of young Americans (up until this one) is fading away into the history books, I am very sad to say. Resilience has given way to excuses. Silver lining - those of us who still have that old-school mentality will be far better off gobbling up all the opportunities out there whilst our peers wonder why things didn't turn out as planned.

//End rant.


And think, Bad Religion tried to warn us that this was going to happen to this generation, saw it coming way back in 1990. They don't know how to live but they've got a lot of toys.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/wm-A10302B0001132511V/bad_religion_21st_century_digital_boy_official_music_video/

StewartG
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby StewartG » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:51 pm

williemayshayes wrote:one of the truly prestigious "can't miss" national schools that have LRAP.



Please excuse my ignorance, but not all schools have LRAP? I know GULC does so at what point in the rankings does LRAP not exist?

StewartG
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby StewartG » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:53 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:
StewartG wrote:Are there any good reasons for going to law school for people who don't want to be lawyers?


Go into management consulting for Mckinsey or Bain right out of a T6 law school.



Interesting! Do consulting firms actively recruit JDs? And at T6 schools?

PoliticalJunkie
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby PoliticalJunkie » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:57 pm

Yes, if you want to go into advocacy. A JD is more valuable in policy advocacy and formulation than an MPP and will open more advancement opportunities than the latter (despite what most lawyer-advocates tell you since I was heavily lobbied against going to law school while in DC).

Skyhook
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby Skyhook » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:59 pm

OP, do you mean "don't want to be lawyers" as nothing to do with law, or not being an attorney?
If you mean the latter then academia is a good reason.
Seems to work out for a lot of people, including the President...

StewartG
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby StewartG » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:42 pm

Skyhook wrote:not being an attorney?
If you mean the latter then academia is a good reason.


What about those of us who can't/won't be accepted into T6 schools? Sad...

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Grizz
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Re: Non-Lawyer for Law School

Postby Grizz » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:44 pm

StewartG wrote:
Skyhook wrote:not being an attorney?
If you mean the latter then academia is a good reason.


What about those of us who can't/won't be accepted into T6 schools? Sad...


Or the many, many people from those schools who will not get academia.

Terrible reason.




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