MVP w/45k vs CCN sticker

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MVP w/45k or CCN sticker

MVP w/$
44
46%
CCN Sticker
52
54%
 
Total votes: 96

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rayiner

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Re: MVP w/45k vs CCN sticker

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:11 pm

disco_barred wrote:
Chuch wrote:this thread has a lot of people paying sticker at chi justifying their decisions. suspiciously lacking are the people who took the $ from MVP and now regret it.


To be fair, none of them have struck out yet (from this current year) since OCI hasn't happened yet.

Also worth pointing out that hiring isn't "everyone is safe down to x% then YOUR FUCKED." So median at MVPB right now still has a fighting chance, though certainly the third of the class right in the middle we see very mixed employment prospects. At Chicago that middle third will certainly see mixed results too, but the overall results suggest a higher percentage of positive outcomes in that band.


I mean this is really the gist of it. From the data we have, the break down seems to be:

Top 1/3 at CCN: You'll get the firm you want.
Top 1/3 at T7-14: You'll get a good firm, but not necessarily your top choice.
Top 2/3 at CCN: You'll get a good firm, but not necessarily your top choice.
Top 2/3 at T7-14: You may not get a good firm, scramble to make sure you do.

270910

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Re: MVP w/45k vs CCN sticker

Postby 270910 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:13 pm

rayiner wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Chuch wrote:this thread has a lot of people paying sticker at chi justifying their decisions. suspiciously lacking are the people who took the $ from MVP and now regret it.


To be fair, none of them have struck out yet (from this current year) since OCI hasn't happened yet.

Also worth pointing out that hiring isn't "everyone is safe down to x% then YOUR FUCKED." So median at MVPB right now still has a fighting chance, though certainly the third of the class right in the middle we see very mixed employment prospects. At Chicago that middle third will certainly see mixed results too, but the overall results suggest a higher percentage of positive outcomes in that band.


I mean this is really the gist of it. From the data we have, the break down seems to be:

Top 1/3 at CCN: You'll get the firm you want.
Top 1/3 at T7-14: You'll get a good firm, but not necessarily your top choice.
Top 2/3 at CCN: You'll get a good firm, but not necessarily your top choice.
Top 2/3 at T7-14: You may not get a good firm, scramble to make sure you do.


I'd quibble somewhat with your nomenclature, because there are plenty of firms that top third at CCN isn't good enough for. But that's a (rough) approximation of what I was getting at, yeah.

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bizen boat

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Re: MVP w/45k vs CCN sticker

Postby bizen boat » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:18 pm

There aren't exactly a whole fuckton of mvp people in here saying they don't regret taking the money either... I suspect few people would take 15k/year at MVP over CCN unless they had personal reasons for being at one of the MVP.

I think Doyle's point (that he shouldn't have had to elaborate) about there being more reasons than simply a chance at biglaw to choose CCN over MVP should have wrapped up this debate. A 15k/year scholarship would be a terribly shortsighted reason to go MVP over CCN even if "biglaw chances" were equal. Either way, you're still going to be in the position where you basically need biglaw to pay your debts. Might as well spring for the added opportunities for clerkships, academia, etc.

edit: I guess I'm now beating the dead horse, but this post was in response to:

Chuch wrote:this thread has a lot of people paying sticker at chi justifying their decisions. suspiciously lacking are the people who took the $ from MVP and now regret it.

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rayiner

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Re: MVP w/45k vs CCN sticker

Postby rayiner » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:26 pm

disco_barred wrote:
rayiner wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Chuch wrote:this thread has a lot of people paying sticker at chi justifying their decisions. suspiciously lacking are the people who took the $ from MVP and now regret it.


To be fair, none of them have struck out yet (from this current year) since OCI hasn't happened yet.

Also worth pointing out that hiring isn't "everyone is safe down to x% then YOUR FUCKED." So median at MVPB right now still has a fighting chance, though certainly the third of the class right in the middle we see very mixed employment prospects. At Chicago that middle third will certainly see mixed results too, but the overall results suggest a higher percentage of positive outcomes in that band.


I mean this is really the gist of it. From the data we have, the break down seems to be:

Top 1/3 at CCN: You'll get the firm you want.
Top 1/3 at T7-14: You'll get a good firm, but not necessarily your top choice.
Top 2/3 at CCN: You'll get a good firm, but not necessarily your top choice.
Top 2/3 at T7-14: You may not get a good firm, scramble to make sure you do.


I'd quibble somewhat with your nomenclature, because there are plenty of firms that top third at CCN isn't good enough for. But that's a (rough) approximation of what I was getting at, yeah.


Obviously. You won't get WLRK, but you'll get another great firm that has a strong practice in whatever it is that WLRK does.

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Chuch

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Re: MVP w/45k vs CCN sticker

Postby Chuch » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

bizen boat wrote:fuckton

:lol:

bizen boat wrote: A 15k/year scholarship would be a terribly shortsighted reason to go MVP over CCN even if "biglaw chances" were equal. Either way, you're still going to be in the position where you basically need biglaw to pay your debts. Might as well spring for the added opportunities for clerkships, academia, etc.

:shock:

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270910

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Re: MVP w/45k vs CCN sticker

Postby 270910 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:12 pm

Might as well spring for the added opportunities for clerkships, academia, etc.


For the record, M and V in particular actually do as well or better than most of CNN on many clerkship metrics. Chi did better in the past but, by comparison to other schools, has had a rough few years relative to its peers.

Academia CCN do a tad better than MVPB, but they all do so 'poorly' that it is probably not easier for any given student at CCN than at MVPB assuming similar credentials.

Columbia and NYU shine over MVPB in firm placement, especially in NYC - but not so much beyond that. (I know less about Chicago's firm placement).

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SuichiKurama

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Re: MVP w/45k vs CCN sticker

Postby SuichiKurama » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:21 pm

disco_barred wrote:
Might as well spring for the added opportunities for clerkships, academia, etc.


For the record, M and V in particular actually do as well or better than most of CNN on many clerkship metrics. Chi did better in the past but, by comparison to other schools, has had a rough few years relative to its peers.

Academia CCN do a tad better than MVPB, but they all do so 'poorly' that it is probably not easier for any given student at CCN than at MVPB assuming similar credentials.

Columbia and NYU shine over MVPB in firm placement, especially in NYC - but not so much beyond that. (I know less about Chicago's firm placement).



This is all true (with the exception that NYU only shines above MVBP in NYC firm placement) and more reason to definitely consider 45K at MVBP over CCN sticker. Another thing that people are leaving out is that sticker at CN is basically the worst sticker of all in terms of cost. NYC COL combined with tuition at CLS and NYU + interest is simply insane.

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bizen boat

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Re: MVP w/45k vs CCN sticker

Postby bizen boat » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:36 pm

SuichiKurama wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Might as well spring for the added opportunities for clerkships, academia, etc.


For the record, M and V in particular actually do as well or better than most of CNN on many clerkship metrics. Chi did better in the past but, by comparison to other schools, has had a rough few years relative to its peers.

Academia CCN do a tad better than MVPB, but they all do so 'poorly' that it is probably not easier for any given student at CCN than at MVPB assuming similar credentials.

Columbia and NYU shine over MVPB in firm placement, especially in NYC - but not so much beyond that. (I know less about Chicago's firm placement).



This is all true (with the exception that NYU only shines above MVBP in NYC firm placement) and more reason to definitely consider 45K at MVBP over CCN sticker. Another thing that people are leaving out is that sticker at CN is basically the worst sticker of all in terms of cost. NYC COL combined with tuition at CLS and NYU + interest is simply insane.


I do agree that if the overall difference in price (due to CoL) comes out to 75k instead of 45k it changes things (I'd probably still go with CCN though). My point was that ~180k in debt and ~135k are such monstrous sums that if you get biglaw you can pay them back sort of comfortably, and if you don't you're just as screwed either way. Not that I have given you any reason to believe this assertion, but I'm the last person to be flippant about debt.

I'd look at the situation like this: is the loan differential enough such that your increased financial freedom at graduation + MVP opens more doors than debt burden + CCN? When we're talking about debt over 100k for either option, I still think you're going to be better off with CCN.

What the hell, though, it doesn't matter to me what OP or anyone else does. MVP is a cooler acronym, so I'm going to change my answer. Go to MVP.

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