167/3.4, where to go if want a job in NY or Washington DC Forum

[creatinganalt]

I would be really wary of the DC job market if I were you. Even in a better economy, it was 1) smaller than the NYC job market and 2) being flooded with jobseekers. ITE it's a bloodbath trying to find work there, depending on what you're trying to do. Even at UVA and GULC there are kids above median who are struggling to find jobs in the DC market. Based on everything I've observed so far I think DC is the hardest market to get into in the country, and will probably remain so for some time.

Look at what places well in NYC, and base your decision on that. Alternately, study and retake the LSAT to try to get a 170+, and aim for a T14 school that might give you a shot at both locations.

Interesting analysis, vanwinkle. I had thought the consensus was that DC had weathered the storm better than most markets, but I guess maybe not. In your opinion, would it be better right now (assuming at or near median) trying to make it in DC out of GULC or in NYC out of Cornell? Or to move down the rankings a bit, would someone gunning for NYC from Fordham or someone trying for DC from GW be in better shape?

So this is relevant to my interests. Vanwinkle - is it that DC is more stable so it is attracting more students and becoming disproportionately competitive? Or is it that it is becoming more prestige driven (supposedly a very schools/grades focused market) so the t-20/lower t-14 schools in particular are screwed? I only want to work in DC and feel almost feverish at how tough the market looks to break into (and I'm HLS/URM/work experience/prestigious UG).

[fedexmalcom]

I would be really wary of the DC job market if I were you. Even in a better economy, it was 1) smaller than the NYC job market and 2) being flooded with jobseekers. ITE it's a bloodbath trying to find work there, depending on what you're trying to do. Even at UVA and GULC there are kids above median who are struggling to find jobs in the DC market. Based on everything I've observed so far I think DC is the hardest market to get into in the country, and will probably remain so for some time.

Look at what places well in NYC, and base your decision on that. Alternately, study and retake the LSAT to try to get a 170+, and aim for a T14 school that might give you a shot at both locations.

Interesting analysis, vanwinkle. I had thought the consensus was that DC had weathered the storm better than most markets, but I guess maybe not. In your opinion, would it be better right now (assuming at or near median) trying to make it in DC out of GULC or in NYC out of Cornell? Or to move down the rankings a bit, would someone gunning for NYC from Fordham or someone trying for DC from GW be in better shape?

I have the same concern. A T14 super elite will surely be great. But I have to admit a 170+ score is diffcult to me now. So I am also interested in comparative advantages one could expect from GW or Fordham in their local markets.

[let/them/eat/cake]

I would be really wary of the DC job market if I were you. Even in a better economy, it was 1) smaller than the NYC job market and 2) being flooded with jobseekers. ITE it's a bloodbath trying to find work there, depending on what you're trying to do. Even at UVA and GULC there are kids above median who are struggling to find jobs in the DC market. Based on everything I've observed so far I think DC is the hardest market to get into in the country, and will probably remain so for some time.

Look at what places well in NYC, and base your decision on that. Alternately, study and retake the LSAT to try to get a 170+, and aim for a T14 school that might give you a shot at both locations.

Interesting analysis, vanwinkle. I had thought the consensus was that DC had weathered the storm better than most markets, but I guess maybe not. In your opinion, would it be better right now (assuming at or near median) trying to make it in DC out of GULC or in NYC out of Cornell? Or to move down the rankings a bit, would someone gunning for NYC from Fordham or someone trying for DC from GW be in better shape?

I have the same concern. A T14 super elite will surely be great. But I have to admit a 170+ score is diffcult to me now. So I am also interested in comparative advantages one could expect from GW or Fordham in their local markets.

would assume Fordham in NYC > GW in DC (and that Cornell in NYC > than GULC in DC) for the same reasons that were relevant before ITE and are relevant now: NYC is a larger, less selective, less insular market.

[chicoalto0649]

This is strange, 2 pages and I can still say IBOS...hmmn is something wrong with the space-time continuum ?

O ya,

IBOS

OP- I am going to Fordham. I don't think you can go wrong with either GW or F. I think the NYC market is less scary than the DC market, also with a little leg work I think your Fordham JD can take you places outside of NYC-NJ area.

[JusticeHarlan]

I would be really wary of the DC job market if I were you. Even in a better economy, it was 1) smaller than the NYC job market and 2) being flooded with jobseekers. ITE it's a bloodbath trying to find work there, depending on what you're trying to do. Even at UVA and GULC there are kids above median who are struggling to find jobs in the DC market. Based on everything I've observed so far I think DC is the hardest market to get into in the country, and will probably remain so for some time.

Look at what places well in NYC, and base your decision on that. Alternately, study and retake the LSAT to try to get a 170+, and aim for a T14 school that might give you a shot at both locations.

Interesting analysis, vanwinkle. I had thought the consensus was that DC had weathered the storm better than most markets, but I guess maybe not. In your opinion, would it be better right now (assuming at or near median) trying to make it in DC out of GULC or in NYC out of Cornell? Or to move down the rankings a bit, would someone gunning for NYC from Fordham or someone trying for DC from GW be in better shape?

I have the same concern. A T14 super elite will surely be great. But I have to admit a 170+ score is diffcult to me now. So I am also interested in comparative advantages one could expect from GW or Fordham in their local markets.

would assume Fordham in NYC > GW in DC (and that Cornell in NYC > than GULC in DC) for the same reasons that were relevant before ITE and are relevant now: NYC is a larger, less selective, less insular market.

Was Fordham in NYC > GW in DC, pre-ITE? Class of 2007 and 2009, GW placed a higher percent of its class in NLJ250 firms than Fordham did, and Fordham beat out GW by .2% in 2008. (See here for 2007 and 2008, here for 2009) So I find that premise that Fordham in NYC is historically better than GW in DC to be debatable.

Edit to clarify: I know the borders of pre-ITE and ITE are blurry, so I cited what years I could find hard data for, but 2007 may have been the peak. I'm just not sure I have data showing that Fordham in NYC > GW in DC, though I'd be interested in seeing it if anyone had it (paging OS, paging OS).

[splittsville]

If you decide on NYC and don't get into Fordham or don't wanna pay sticker there, I would go with Rutgers-Newark (which is actually what I did). Brooklyn and Cardozo are much more expensive for essentially the same employment prospects. Your LSAT is also well above their top 75, so you would have good shot at some $$$.

But you would be in in Newark

[Informative]

Good choices: GWU, Fordham or BC.
See where you get in, then see which school has an environment that you would perform well at and which school would offer you a low debt-load.

[Informative]

Thank you for everyone helping me here! Your advices are mostly appreciated.
I modified my question according to your insightful opinions.

I am looking for a Law Schools which I have some chances of getting into and
which could prepare me for legal career in NY or Washington DC.

I agree that I should get into the best law schools I can while taking a serious
consideration of debt. Here is my current list for consideration: GWU, Fordham,
BC, Brooklyn, Yeshiva(Cardozo). Thank you for telling me how to retake the lsat,
but now please take my 167 as the final score.

I have extended the range of discussion here. Please recommend more law schools.
They are not necessary to be in NY region or Washington DC.

Your school choices are fine. You should get into at least one of the GWU, Fordham, BC schools. You may want to have American as a good safety for DC as well.

[fedexmalcom]

If my personal experience could helps anyone incoming, that would be great.
Althought I cautiously planned my application, results went against my expectation.
Rejected by BC,Fordham, and waitinglisted by GWU. And admitted to Notre Dame
with some money. It is out of my original consideration to locate a school in Chicago legal market but it is at least better than going nowhere.

New York market is good. But I have to be practical about what options available. Hope
Notre Dame did something to promote its horrible performance in job landing.

Thank you for everyone helping me here! Your advices are mostly appreciated.
I modified my question according to your insightful opinions.

I am looking for a Law Schools which I have some chances of getting into and
which could prepare me for legal career in NY or Washington DC.

I agree that I should get into the best law schools I can while taking a serious
consideration of debt. Here is my current list for consideration: GWU, Fordham,
BC, Brooklyn, Yeshiva(Cardozo). Thank you for telling me how to retake the lsat,
but now please take my 167 as the final score.

I have extended the range of discussion here. Please recommend more law schools.
They are not necessary to be in NY region or Washington DC.

Your school choices are fine. You should get into at least one of the GWU, Fordham, BC schools. You may want to have American as a good safety for DC as well.

[Informative]

Go where you ultimately want to work.
New York: Fordham
DC: GW
Boston: BC

Keeping that in mind, if you want BigLaw, look at the law school rankings that place into biglaw:
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... hool-.html

[2011Law]

Go where you ultimately want to work.
New York: Fordham
DC: GW
Boston: BC

Keeping that in mind, if you want BigLaw, look at the law school rankings that place into biglaw:
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... hool-.html

No BU love?

[fedexmalcom]

I placed heavy considerationg of that ranking before launching my application.
Sadly, many good students worked out the same way. GW waitlisted me and BC rejected.
So Notre Dame and Wisconsin are the best I have in belt.

Go where you ultimately want to work.
New York: Fordham
DC: GW
Boston: BC

Keeping that in mind, if you want BigLaw, look at the law school rankings that place into biglaw:
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... hool-.html

[FiveSermon]

Fordham seems like the obvious match for your numbers (I was waitlisted with 166/3.4 after applying in late December). Apply early, and if you can slip a "why Fordham" section into your personal statement, your odds would be pretty solid. Be prepared to pay sticker + NYC cost of living, though.

Really sticker? The ranges are 3.37-3.74 162-167 so he's in the 75th percentile of his LSAT. You don't think he will get anything?

He won't. Fordham doesn't give out much $.

[romothesavior]

He won't. Fordham doesn't give out much $.

This.

This is what is wrong with Fordham. They are a pretty good school (on par or better than most of the T20s) but it is insanely expensive because of the high NYC COL and their stinginess. The numbers that it takes to get good money at Fordham will probably get you in at Cornell or in with big money at BU/BC, so I never really know why people go to Fordham. The high cost means high risk, and that is just not worth it, IMO.