Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

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Rutgers-Newark vs Fordham

Rutgers ($18k/year)
11
42%
Fordham (probably sticker)
15
58%
 
Total votes: 26

mistywisty
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Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby mistywisty » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:44 pm

I've been deposited at Rutgers-Newark for a few months, but on Thursday I got a call from Fordham offering me a spot. Rutgers was giving me $18k a year, Fordham thus far has offered nothing, though at the suggestion of the admissions officer I spoke with Friday, I've put in an email to the Dean of Enrollment asking if there's any possibility of merit aid (she seems to think I could get at least a little bit). I'm from ne NJ, dead set on staying in the NYC area, preferably working in NYC. Fordham is obviously going to give better placement, but enough to justify the $120k difference in what I'd have to pay?

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dominkay
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby dominkay » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:04 pm

How is this even a question? Fordham.

get it to x
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby get it to x » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:14 pm

Being dead set on NYC = Fordham.

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kk19131
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby kk19131 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:25 pm

I still say cheaper is better.

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badpixie
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby badpixie » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:37 pm

Assuming that you qualify for in-state tuition at Rutgers ($23K/year), you need to decide how strongly you prefer working in NYC over NJ to determine if the difference is worth it. ($5K/year for Rutgers vs $45K/year for Fordham) Fordham is going to place better in NYC, while Rutgers will place strongly in NJ firms. You have to decide whether your preference for working in NYC is strong enough to be worth the additional debt. If by "preference" you mean "dead set on working in NYC," then it is worth the difference. If it is more like "well, it would be nice to work in NYC, but I'd rather put the extra $120K of debt into buying a house not far from my NJ firm position," then Rutgers is the way to go.

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danidancer
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby danidancer » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:01 pm

badpixie wrote:Assuming that you qualify for in-state tuition at Rutgers ($23K/year), you need to decide how strongly you prefer working in NYC over NJ to determine if the difference is worth it. ($5K/year for Rutgers vs $45K/year for Fordham) Fordham is going to place better in NYC, while Rutgers will place strongly in NJ firms. You have to decide whether your preference for working in NYC is strong enough to be worth the additional debt. If by "preference" you mean "dead set on working in NYC," then it is worth the difference. If it is more like "well, it would be nice to work in NYC, but I'd rather put the extra $120K of debt into buying a house not far from my NJ firm position," then Rutgers is the way to go.


This is assuming Rutgers will get OP a job at all. That's a generous assumption.

keg411
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby keg411 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:34 pm

danidancer wrote:
badpixie wrote:Assuming that you qualify for in-state tuition at Rutgers ($23K/year), you need to decide how strongly you prefer working in NYC over NJ to determine if the difference is worth it. ($5K/year for Rutgers vs $45K/year for Fordham) Fordham is going to place better in NYC, while Rutgers will place strongly in NJ firms. You have to decide whether your preference for working in NYC is strong enough to be worth the additional debt. If by "preference" you mean "dead set on working in NYC," then it is worth the difference. If it is more like "well, it would be nice to work in NYC, but I'd rather put the extra $120K of debt into buying a house not far from my NJ firm position," then Rutgers is the way to go.


This is assuming Rutgers will get OP a job at all. That's a generous assumption.


Do you know anything about the NJ legal job market? Because if you did you'd know that what you said wasn't true. I know about the non-BIGLAW world in NJ very very well.

If you are talking about BIGLAW, that is different... but a job does not = a BIGLAW job. Hell, I know a below-median SHU student who has a legal job (it's not one that 99.99% of people on the board would want, but it's not McDonald's or scrubbing toilets or being a paralegal/legal secretary or part-time traffic court or doc review). North NJ is crowded, yes, but according to the law journal that just came out, summer hiring was NOT down in NJ as much as it was across a lot of markets (including NYC).

OP - if you are deadset on NYC go to Fordham. Fordham, though very expensive, will give you a much better shot at a BIGLAW job, or at the very least, a job in NYC. If you want low debt and don't mind NJ, RU-N is the better choice as you will save $$$ and won't have to worry about needing to make $160k out of school. badpixie has it dead on. But DO NOT go to Rutgers if you are "NYC or Bust" or "160k or Bust" because you will end up disappointed.

mistywisty
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby mistywisty » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:13 pm

I am less NJ adverse than many, having lived here most of my life, but I'd rather be in Manhattan. If it came to it, though, would Fordham put me in a worse position than Rutgers for a Jersey firm? I know it's not the most portable degree, but I'd think it'd make it over the river. Also, Rutgers has tiered COAs depending on whether you live with parents, Fordham does not. So if I live with my parents to save money, I can borrow more going to Fordham and not have to worry about trying to work during my first year. Rutgers I would have to work, as I have a car payment plus CC debt from breaking my leg two years ago (despite paying out of pocket for expensive insurance, I essentially paid for my PT myself). I feel like taking the stress and time spent working away will allow me to do better school-wise - and I think for what I want I'd have to be virtually first in the class at Rutgers, whereas Fordham allows a little more wiggle room.

Really, I've essentially decided on Fordham, and am just trying to justify the decision as much as possible before I commit.

keg411
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby keg411 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:23 pm

I think Fordham is decent for NJ, but it's not any great shakes. You will be essentially looked at the same in NJ as SHU/Rutgers kids; they won't consider the ranking difference like they might for a T14-er (and even in those cases the NJ firms can be a little gun-shy because they are afraid of bolting for NYC the second something opens up).

However, if you need to work and Rutgers is FT and Fordham is PT, take the PT. You are not allowed by the ABA to work FT your first year of law school if you are in a FT program. Based on what you have to say about loans, you don't seem to be debt averse so you might as well go with Fordham for the NYC strength and the slight more wiggle room. If you were debt-averse, it would be a totally different story.

aPosseAdEsse
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby aPosseAdEsse » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:00 pm

keg411 wrote:
danidancer wrote:
badpixie wrote:OP - if you are deadset on NYC go to Fordham. Fordham, though very expensive, will give you a much better shot at a BIGLAW job, or at the very least, a job in NYC. If you want low debt and don't mind NJ, RU-N is the better choice as you will save $$$ and won't have to worry about needing to make $160k out of school. badpixie has it dead on. But DO NOT go to Rutgers if you are "NYC or Bust" or "160k or Bust" because you will end up disappointed.


This seems credited.

Personally OP, I would be having similar difficulty with this decision. Ultimately I think I would lean toward Rutgers, so that I could have less debt and feel more free to choose between legal careers outside of private practice, but I understand why you're choosing Fordham.

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Matteliszt
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby Matteliszt » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:17 pm

it sounds to me like OP wants NYC biglaw. There is very little difference, I think in where you will have to place in the class OP(top 10 percent would be my guess) at either school. Attending Fordham will not give you very much "wiggle room". That being said I have no idea what it is like coming from rutgers. You may be dead in the water trying for NYC biglaw.

pocket herc
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby pocket herc » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:22 pm

is this top 10% at fordham credited? I am hearing a lot of conjecture, but I'd love to hear from actual fordham students rather than tls speculators

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Matteliszt
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby Matteliszt » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:48 pm

My claim comes from an autoadmit post yesterday about a 10 percenter at Fordham asking about bidding. Most of the targets for him/her were V50ish. I too would like a Fordham student to clarify, for I am not an authority on the matter.

pocket herc
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby pocket herc » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:52 pm

For class of 2009, with 95% of the class reporting salary information from the private sector, the median salary was $160,000. Now, I know, this was the class that conducted OCI in 2007, but have employment outcomes really been reduced to the extent suggested by many on this forum? I know my school has lists for summer employment for the class of 2011, which gives you some sense of where employment is at least possible. Do fordham students have access to lists like that, and if so, what do they show?

keg411
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby keg411 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:39 pm

pocket herc wrote:For class of 2009, with 95% of the class reporting salary information from the private sector, the median salary was $160,000. Now, I know, this was the class that conducted OCI in 2007, but have employment outcomes really been reduced to the extent suggested by many on this forum? I know my school has lists for summer employment for the class of 2011, which gives you some sense of where employment is at least possible. Do fordham students have access to lists like that, and if so, what do they show?


Don't trust medians.

Fordham placed a little under 30% in BigLaw for the c/o '09. I'd say, you'd have to be around top 25% to have a shot, but obviously nothing in guaranteed ITE. Rutgers you have be somewhere between top 5% to top 15% to have a shot (this includes NJ market paying firms and NJ offices of NYC based firms), and again, nothing is guaranteed. Fordham will give you a bit of wiggle room, but just know that you are taking on a lot more debt to do so.

Most likely you will not get BigLaw from either school, but you have a better chance at Fordham. If you are really "Big Law or Bust" you need to go T13.

pocket herc
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Re: Fordham vs Rutgers-Newark ($$$)

Postby pocket herc » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:41 pm

I'd just really like to hear from fordham students. Where are you fordham students? Set us straight.




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