Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Should I defer my admission and apply to higher ranked schools?

Take the scholarship, Top 25 is fine!
35
66%
Defer, and apply to T14 schools!
16
30%
Other (post a message saying WHY you voted this way)
2
4%
 
Total votes: 53

tponmyshoe
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:41 pm

Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby tponmyshoe » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:23 pm

Let me start by saying that I am very new to this site. Alot of the topics discussed here are completely new to me. So I hope you take it easy on me if I come across as a bit "clueless".

I am going to be starting law school in about a month. I have always thought that I want to work in a DA's office as a prosecutor, or at least as a litigator of some sort (but, let's be honest, I'm sure I could change my mind over the next three years). So, like anyone, got good grades during my undergrad, took the LSAT, and did well for myself (practiced around 168-171, ended up with a 172 to go with a 4.0). When I started looking for schools, maybe I didn't do my due diligence, but I looked primarily at schools around where I'm from that were also pretty high in the rankings (at least I thought) that I hoped I could get a scholarship to. Long story short, I got into a T25 school with a full ride, and jumped at the chance, and was very happy with myself.

Just over the last few weeks I started looking at this and other sites. I have never learned about the T14 craze, etc. So you might imagine the anxiety I felt when I see so much "Top 10 school or bust talk", thinking that I am forgoing a ton of opportunities by going to a lower ranked school than I might have gotten into (even though I apparently made the mistake of thinking top 25 was pretty good hah).

So I decided to post for myself. What advice would you all (that know more about the process than me) would give to someone in my position? I have always believed that the student makes his/her education no matter what school they are at, but maybe that's not true in law school. I will say, even though I'm not sure exactly what BIGLAW is, I don't think I'm really targeting that. I want to do litigation work (I'm thinking criminal law, as I mentioned above), and maybe - I realize this is a total pipedream - become a judge eventually. Should I panic a month out and reconsider where I'm going to school? Or should I just relax and do my best and hope everything falls into place.

Thanks in advance for everything! All advice/opinions are welcome!

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Teoeo
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Teoeo » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:25 pm

With your stats you can get a substantial amount of money at a substantially better place. I would reapply with your numbers IMO.

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Teoeo
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Teoeo » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:26 pm

PS. you even have a chance at HYS (S particularly)

dk8
Posts: 495
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby dk8 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:27 pm

reapply. top 25 full ride is a good deal but with your numbers you can get good money at much better schools.

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hiromoto45
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby hiromoto45 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:29 pm

reapply, you can get fullrides at T14s.

Burger in a can
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Burger in a can » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:30 pm

tponmyshoe wrote:Let me start by saying that I am very new to this site. Alot of the topics discussed here are completely new to me. So I hope you take it easy on me if I come across as a bit "clueless".

I am going to be starting law school in about a month. I have always thought that I want to work in a DA's office as a prosecutor, or at least as a litigator of some sort (but, let's be honest, I'm sure I could change my mind over the next three years). So, like anyone, got good grades during my undergrad, took the LSAT, and did well for myself (practiced around 168-171, ended up with a 172 to go with a 4.0). When I started looking for schools, maybe I didn't do my due diligence, but I looked primarily at schools around where I'm from that were also pretty high in the rankings (at least I thought) that I hoped I could get a scholarship to. Long story short, I got into a T25 school with a full ride, and jumped at the chance, and was very happy with myself.

Just over the last few weeks I started looking at this and other sites. I have never learned about the T14 craze, etc. So you might imagine the anxiety I felt when I see so much "Top 10 school or bust talk", thinking that I am forgoing a ton of opportunities by going to a lower ranked school than I might have gotten into (even though I apparently made the mistake of thinking top 25 was pretty good hah).

So I decided to post for myself. What advice would you all (that know more about the process than me) would give to someone in my position? I have always believed that the student makes his/her education no matter what school they are at, but maybe that's not true in law school. I will say, even though I'm not sure exactly what BIGLAW is, I don't think I'm really targeting that. I want to do litigation work (I'm thinking criminal law, as I mentioned above), and maybe - I realize this is a total pipedream - become a judge eventually. Should I panic a month out and reconsider where I'm going to school? Or should I just relax and do my best and hope everything falls into place.

Thanks in advance for everything! All advice/opinions are welcome!


You got a full ride at a T25 in an area you would like to live? With your employment aspirations, I would say you have nothing to worry about. Good luck, and enjoy law school! :)

sumus romani
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby sumus romani » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:31 pm

tponmyshoe wrote:Let me start by saying that I am very new to this site. Alot of the topics discussed here are completely new to me. So I hope you take it easy on me if I come across as a bit "clueless".

I am going to be starting law school in about a month. I have always thought that I want to work in a DA's office as a prosecutor, or at least as a litigator of some sort (but, let's be honest, I'm sure I could change my mind over the next three years). So, like anyone, got good grades during my undergrad, took the LSAT, and did well for myself (practiced around 168-171, ended up with a 172 to go with a 4.0). When I started looking for schools, maybe I didn't do my due diligence, but I looked primarily at schools around where I'm from that were also pretty high in the rankings (at least I thought) that I hoped I could get a scholarship to. Long story short, I got into a T25 school with a full ride, and jumped at the chance, and was very happy with myself.

Just over the last few weeks I started looking at this and other sites. I have never learned about the T14 craze, etc. So you might imagine the anxiety I felt when I see so much "Top 10 school or bust talk", thinking that I am forgoing a ton of opportunities by going to a lower ranked school than I might have gotten into (even though I apparently made the mistake of thinking top 25 was pretty good hah).

So I decided to post for myself. What advice would you all (that know more about the process than me) would give to someone in my position? I have always believed that the student makes his/her education no matter what school they are at, but maybe that's not true in law school. I will say, even though I'm not sure exactly what BIGLAW is, I don't think I'm really targeting that. I want to do litigation work (I'm thinking criminal law, as I mentioned above), and maybe - I realize this is a total pipedream - become a judge eventually. Should I panic a month out and reconsider where I'm going to school? Or should I just relax and do my best and hope everything falls into place.

Thanks in advance for everything! All advice/opinions are welcome!


I see that I have a different view than other posters. But here it is. There is nothing wrong with taking a full scholarship to the 25th law school, given your goals. Yes, it means that working for a big firm is unlikely and yes, it may even be hard to get a job at first. Also, I assume that you want to work in the general area of your school (going to a higher-ranked school will not necessarily help here: e.g. Duke won't outplace BU in Boston in non-biglaw). But the key is that you will have minimal debt, and thus be in a good position to work your way to a good salary over time. You are in a good position.

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Teoeo
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Teoeo » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:34 pm

sumus romani wrote:
tponmyshoe wrote:Let me start by saying that I am very new to this site. Alot of the topics discussed here are completely new to me. So I hope you take it easy on me if I come across as a bit "clueless".

I am going to be starting law school in about a month. I have always thought that I want to work in a DA's office as a prosecutor, or at least as a litigator of some sort (but, let's be honest, I'm sure I could change my mind over the next three years). So, like anyone, got good grades during my undergrad, took the LSAT, and did well for myself (practiced around 168-171, ended up with a 172 to go with a 4.0). When I started looking for schools, maybe I didn't do my due diligence, but I looked primarily at schools around where I'm from that were also pretty high in the rankings (at least I thought) that I hoped I could get a scholarship to. Long story short, I got into a T25 school with a full ride, and jumped at the chance, and was very happy with myself.

Just over the last few weeks I started looking at this and other sites. I have never learned about the T14 craze, etc. So you might imagine the anxiety I felt when I see so much "Top 10 school or bust talk", thinking that I am forgoing a ton of opportunities by going to a lower ranked school than I might have gotten into (even though I apparently made the mistake of thinking top 25 was pretty good hah).

So I decided to post for myself. What advice would you all (that know more about the process than me) would give to someone in my position? I have always believed that the student makes his/her education no matter what school they are at, but maybe that's not true in law school. I will say, even though I'm not sure exactly what BIGLAW is, I don't think I'm really targeting that. I want to do litigation work (I'm thinking criminal law, as I mentioned above), and maybe - I realize this is a total pipedream - become a judge eventually. Should I panic a month out and reconsider where I'm going to school? Or should I just relax and do my best and hope everything falls into place.

Thanks in advance for everything! All advice/opinions are welcome!


I see that I have a different view than other posters. But here it is. There is nothing wrong with taking a full scholarship to the 25th law school, given your goals. Yes, it means that working for a big firm is unlikely and yes, it may even be hard to get a job at first. Also, I assume that you want to work in the general area of your school (going to a higher-ranked school will not necessarily help here: e.g. Duke won't outplace BU in Boston in non-biglaw). But the key is that you will have minimal debt, and thus be in a good position to work your way to a good salary over time. You are in a good position.


I think one of the big problems is that he said he wants to be a judge. To me, that means he might go down the DOJ path.....

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Matthies
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Matthies » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:36 pm

sumus romani wrote:
tponmyshoe wrote:Let me start by saying that I am very new to this site. Alot of the topics discussed here are completely new to me. So I hope you take it easy on me if I come across as a bit "clueless".

I am going to be starting law school in about a month. I have always thought that I want to work in a DA's office as a prosecutor, or at least as a litigator of some sort (but, let's be honest, I'm sure I could change my mind over the next three years). So, like anyone, got good grades during my undergrad, took the LSAT, and did well for myself (practiced around 168-171, ended up with a 172 to go with a 4.0). When I started looking for schools, maybe I didn't do my due diligence, but I looked primarily at schools around where I'm from that were also pretty high in the rankings (at least I thought) that I hoped I could get a scholarship to. Long story short, I got into a T25 school with a full ride, and jumped at the chance, and was very happy with myself.

Just over the last few weeks I started looking at this and other sites. I have never learned about the T14 craze, etc. So you might imagine the anxiety I felt when I see so much "Top 10 school or bust talk", thinking that I am forgoing a ton of opportunities by going to a lower ranked school than I might have gotten into (even though I apparently made the mistake of thinking top 25 was pretty good hah).

So I decided to post for myself. What advice would you all (that know more about the process than me) would give to someone in my position? I have always believed that the student makes his/her education no matter what school they are at, but maybe that's not true in law school. I will say, even though I'm not sure exactly what BIGLAW is, I don't think I'm really targeting that. I want to do litigation work (I'm thinking criminal law, as I mentioned above), and maybe - I realize this is a total pipedream - become a judge eventually. Should I panic a month out and reconsider where I'm going to school? Or should I just relax and do my best and hope everything falls into place.

Thanks in advance for everything! All advice/opinions are welcome!


I see that I have a different view than other posters. But here it is. There is nothing wrong with taking a full scholarship to the 25th law school, given your goals. Yes, it means that working for a big firm is unlikely and yes, it may even be hard to get a job at first. Also, I assume that you want to work in the general area of your school (going to a higher-ranked school will not necessarily help here: e.g. Duke won't outplace BU in Boston in non-biglaw). But the key is that you will have minimal debt, and thus be in a good position to work your way to a good salary over time. You are in a good position.


Agree, no debt in place you want to workgives you more freedom than lots of debt where you don't want to work.
Also if you talking non federal local judge, then who you know and polotics plays a much bigger role than where you went to school.

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Na_Swatch
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Na_Swatch » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:37 pm

The thing is, as the person mentioned above, if he wants to be a judge he should go for a T14.

Its basically a win-win situation with his 172, 4.0:

Delay a year, avoid the economy a little bit longer.

Apply to the entire T14, snag a better school.

Get full scholarships to lower T14, which is at least as good/ better than his current scholarship.

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Matthies
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Matthies » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:38 pm

Teoeo wrote:
sumus romani wrote:
tponmyshoe wrote:Let me start by saying that I am very new to this site. Alot of the topics discussed here are completely new to me. So I hope you take it easy on me if I come across as a bit "clueless".

I am going to be starting law school in about a month. I have always thought that I want to work in a DA's office as a prosecutor, or at least as a litigator of some sort (but, let's be honest, I'm sure I could change my mind over the next three years). So, like anyone, got good grades during my undergrad, took the LSAT, and did well for myself (practiced around 168-171, ended up with a 172 to go with a 4.0). When I started looking for schools, maybe I didn't do my due diligence, but I looked primarily at schools around where I'm from that were also pretty high in the rankings (at least I thought) that I hoped I could get a scholarship to. Long story short, I got into a T25 school with a full ride, and jumped at the chance, and was very happy with myself.

Just over the last few weeks I started looking at this and other sites. I have never learned about the T14 craze, etc. So you might imagine the anxiety I felt when I see so much "Top 10 school or bust talk", thinking that I am forgoing a ton of opportunities by going to a lower ranked school than I might have gotten into (even though I apparently made the mistake of thinking top 25 was pretty good hah).

So I decided to post for myself. What advice would you all (that know more about the process than me) would give to someone in my position? I have always believed that the student makes his/her education no matter what school they are at, but maybe that's not true in law school. I will say, even though I'm not sure exactly what BIGLAW is, I don't think I'm really targeting that. I want to do litigation work (I'm thinking criminal law, as I mentioned above), and maybe - I realize this is a total pipedream - become a judge eventually. Should I panic a month out and reconsider where I'm going to school? Or should I just relax and do my best and hope everything falls into place.

Thanks in advance for everything! All advice/opinions are welcome!


I see that I have a different view than other posters. But here it is. There is nothing wrong with taking a full scholarship to the 25th law school, given your goals. Yes, it means that working for a big firm is unlikely and yes, it may even be hard to get a job at first. Also, I assume that you want to work in the general area of your school (going to a higher-ranked school will not necessarily help here: e.g. Duke won't outplace BU in Boston in non-biglaw). But the key is that you will have minimal debt, and thus be in a good position to work your way to a good salary over time. You are in a good position.


I think one of the big problems is that he said he wants to be a judge. To me, that means he might go down the DOJ path.....


Wut? You don't hae to work for DOJ to be a judge. Judges are appouinted or leected 9depdning on state)

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Teoeo
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Teoeo » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:39 pm

I know that, but US attorneys have a big advantage in judgeships.

edit: In the sense that they get appointed a lot more easily than anyone else.

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Matthies
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Matthies » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:42 pm

Na_Swatch wrote:The thing is, as the person mentioned above, if he wants to be a judge he should go for a T14.



What, where do you guys get this stuff? You don't need to go to a t14 to be a judge (fed judge might help a bit). I know a bunch of judges personally, not a one of the state/local judges went to any place other than the local schools. Both the fed judges I know went to out of state schools, but came here becuase they appointed and this was where the vacany was.

BTW fun fact, at least here the local (county) judges make allmost twice what the state/fed judges do.

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Matthies
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Matthies » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:44 pm

Teoeo wrote:I know that, but US attorneys have a big advantage in judgeships.

edit: In the sense that they get appointed a lot more easily than anyone else.


Maybe true for fed judges, don't know, but not true for local/state judges.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:45 pm

You have a good shot to get anywhere from half to full tuition at a t12. I think you really need to reapply. There are just going to be alot of opportunities available to you coming from those schools that you might not get otherwise.

sumus romani
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby sumus romani » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:48 pm

Matthies wrote:
Na_Swatch wrote:The thing is, as the person mentioned above, if he wants to be a judge he should go for a T14.



What, where do you guys get this stuff? You don't need to go to a t14 to be a judge (fed judge might help a bit). I know a bunch of judges personally, not a one of the state/local judges went to any place other than the local schools. Both the fed judges I know went to out of state schools, but came here becuase they appointed and this was where the vacany was.

BTW fun fact, at least here the local (county) judges make allmost twice what the state/fed judges do.



All of this is irrelevant anyways. The OP just mentioned being a judge in passing and said that it was a pipe-dream. Being a judge sounds really prestigious and all, but it is not as though it somehow should affect the OP's law school plans. I wanna be an astronaut when I grow up. Does that mean that I should not go to law school and go to astronaut-school instead?

AJRESQ
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby AJRESQ » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:50 pm

Like you, I also went to law school to be a prosecutor. It didn't pan out. Of the guys who go to law school to become a prosecutor, in my JDX, most made it in one form or another. If not the Philly DA, then with a local county DA. I hear that is changing now, though...

In any case, it depends on where you want to practice. If you want to work for the Manhattan DA, go top 15. If you want to work for the Philadelphia DA, go to Temple.

At least in Philly, the DA wasn't too concerned with grades. However, you have to be a resident of Philadelphia to work for the Philly DA. I interned there as a UG and then interviewed there during OCI. Made it to the second round of interviews and never did the papework (background check stuff). I was also offered a position with the Camden County DA.

Ultimately I went BIGLAW (good decision, if anything for the contacts alone) and then small law (boutique, they do exist... complex commercial litigation). Never had a desire to do anything outside of southeastern PA. Born and raised here. Surprisingly, I like the civil end of law over the DA. Plans change. Temple grad if you care.
Last edited by AJRESQ on Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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merichard87
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby merichard87 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:53 pm

I won't shit on anybody else's opinion but I must disagree with most of these posters. If you have aspirations to be a judge the best thing you can do is build a reputation in the city/state/region you desire to be in. A full ride at a T25 in that region is not at all a bad place to be and there are still many doors open for a T25 graduate. I wouldn't blame you if did reapply next year but I definitely think you are in a great place right now.

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Matthies
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Matthies » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:54 pm

merichard87 wrote:I won't shit on anybody else's opinion but I must disagree with most of these posters. If you have aspirations to be a judge the best thing you can do is build a reputation in the city/state/region you desire to be in. A full ride at a T25 in that region is not at all a bad place to be and there are still many doors open for a T25 graduate. I wouldn't blame you if did reapply next year but I definitely think you are in a great place right now.


Agreed.

Just and FYI here is how it works for state local judges very basically (at least in my state of Colorado)

Each new governor appoints a judicial review board that is dominated by people who think like him (replucians or democrats) it has judges, lawyers and a few citizen spots on the panel. You apply and/or you name is submitted for possible judgeship. You have to have a bunch of folks backing you, it helps if those folks are also part of the political party in charge (but not always, higher up judge you want to be the more politics comes into play).

The names and applications are reviewed by the judge panel. they decide to interview you, you go through a bunch of rounds of interviews, if they pick you (I'm not sure if its a majority vote or unanimous, if anyone wants to know I can ask one of my judge friends) your name goes to the governor and then you get assigned a slot when/if one comes open.

If you don't get picked you go back into the pile for review next time. And when a new governor comes in the review board can change a little or allot. You can go through this process several times before you become a judge, and you may never get picked. Or if you have really good connections and people backing your application you might get picked right away.

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Matthies
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Matthies » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:56 pm

sumus romani wrote:
Matthies wrote:
Na_Swatch wrote:The thing is, as the person mentioned above, if he wants to be a judge he should go for a T14.



What, where do you guys get this stuff? You don't need to go to a t14 to be a judge (fed judge might help a bit). I know a bunch of judges personally, not a one of the state/local judges went to any place other than the local schools. Both the fed judges I know went to out of state schools, but came here becuase they appointed and this was where the vacany was.

BTW fun fact, at least here the local (county) judges make allmost twice what the state/fed judges do.



All of this is irrelevant anyways. The OP just mentioned being a judge in passing and said that it was a pipe-dream. Being a judge sounds really prestigious and all, but it is not as though it somehow should affect the OP's law school plans. I wanna be an astronaut when I grow up. Does that mean that I should not go to law school and go to astronaut-school instead?


No, go to LS, cuase at top LS they OCI for astrunauts all the time?

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rayiner
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby rayiner » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:56 pm

You absolutely have to reapply.

Here is the thing: no matter what you want to do, a T14 school will give you a better shot at it. A T25 might get you where you want to go, but a T14 will do it with less risk, and give you the flexibility to change your mind a little about what you want to do. You're fresh out of school, you don't know yet if what you want to do now is what you'll want to do three years from now.

With a 172/4.0, you'll get into a top-6 school, maybe even one of Yale, Harvard, or Stanford. You'll get a lot of money at the rest of the T14. This is a rare opportunity where you take two numbers, which inherently aren't worth anything, and convert it to real career opportunities and scholarship $$$. Don't sell yourself short in the exchange.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Sauer Grapes » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:57 pm

....
Last edited by Sauer Grapes on Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

AJRESQ
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby AJRESQ » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:59 pm

merichard87 wrote:I won't shit on anybody else's opinion but I must disagree with most of these posters. If you have aspirations to be a judge the best thing you can do is build a reputation in the city/state/region you desire to be in. A full ride at a T25 in that region is not at all a bad place to be and there are still many doors open for a T25 graduate. I wouldn't blame you if did reapply next year but I definitely think you are in a great place right now.


In PA, judges are elected, so where you went to law school has nothing to do with it. However, you need a good bit of cash to fund a campaign.

sumus romani
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby sumus romani » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:00 pm

Matthies wrote:
sumus romani wrote:
Matthies wrote:
Na_Swatch wrote:The thing is, as the person mentioned above, if he wants to be a judge he should go for a T14.



What, where do you guys get this stuff? You don't need to go to a t14 to be a judge (fed judge might help a bit). I know a bunch of judges personally, not a one of the state/local judges went to any place other than the local schools. Both the fed judges I know went to out of state schools, but came here becuase they appointed and this was where the vacany was.

BTW fun fact, at least here the local (county) judges make allmost twice what the state/fed judges do.



All of this is irrelevant anyways. The OP just mentioned being a judge in passing and said that it was a pipe-dream. Being a judge sounds really prestigious and all, but it is not as though it somehow should affect the OP's law school plans. I wanna be an astronaut when I grow up. Does that mean that I should not go to law school and go to astronaut-school instead?


No, go to LS, cuase at top LS they OCI for astrunauts all the time?



My school has a top program in space-law, and then I'll lateral into space-travel. It'll be sweet.

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Matthies
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Re: Top 25 School Not Good Enough? TLS Made Me Panic!

Postby Matthies » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:10 pm

sumus romani wrote:No, go to LS, cuase at top LS they OCI for astrunauts all the time?



My school has a top program in space-law, and then I'll lateral into space-travel. It'll be sweet.[/quote]

We had a spce law class, I wanted to take it but it was full and I never got off the waitlist. WTF :evil:




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