light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

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alexonfyre
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby alexonfyre » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:43 pm

PKSebben wrote:
alexonfyre wrote:EDIT: Also, wanted to bring up UCI again, I would really like to go there, and can potentially claim California residency, would that be a good idea? Would they accept a 2.8?


It appears you rolled high on charisma, though. Helpful for networking?


Oh, I gots network son. Apparently a guy I know is close friends with one of the UVA admissions higher ups. He said he has my back, but I have my doubts. Long story, but if I were in law for money, I would have no problem going to Southern for free and raking large in a few years.

Also, like I said, I don't feel like I need to go to a t14, I just want to, and I have found that accomplishing anything is a combination of taking a lot of shit (like someone else said) and working with the right people. I don't really care if I find the right people at Cooley, but my goal is to find them. The reason for my interest in UCI is the students' necessary traits as risk takers and builders. Those are the types I want to meet.

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pinkzeppelin
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby pinkzeppelin » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:51 pm

alexonfyre wrote: students' necessary traits as risk takers and builders. Those are the types I want to meet.


It sounds like you should go be an entrepreneur. There are conferences and speeches about entrepreneurial stuff practically anywhere. Go to a few of those, network your butt off and start a company. If your company deals with interaction with other companies at all, I guarantee you you will meet many more of those types than you would at any law school.

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mallard
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby mallard » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:53 pm

alexonfyre wrote:Also, like I said, I don't feel like I need to go to a t14, I just want to, and I have found that accomplishing anything is a combination of taking a lot of shit (like someone else said) and working with the right people. I don't really care if I find the right people at Cooley, but my goal is to find them. The reason for my interest in UCI is the students' necessary traits as risk takers and builders. Those are the types I want to meet.


LOL. You're not going to meet "risk takers and builders" at law school. It's a profession that's about understanding and navigating an already existing system and it is populated by risk-averse, not risk-prone people.

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goawaybee
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby goawaybee » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:02 am

mallard wrote:LOL. You're not going to meet "risk takers and builders" at law school. It's a profession that's about understanding and navigating an already existing system and it is populated by risk-averse, not risk-prone people.


THIS.

You might discover a random variable here and there but I agree for the most part. After pondering a bit more. Taking shit is a tad different than straight up eating it. The right people thing, Life is Chess type of situation. People are inescapable. To make the universe better people are disposable. To increase quality of life for the human race they are kind of essential. Network yes, knowing how to manipulate it and orchestrate is knowledge gained via life experience. Take a group of career minded people at 22 much is based on projection and 2nd hand accounts. Much is to be gained once you enter the work force but then to truly gain and apply the knowledge from those experience takes a lifetime.

You want to go to LS, bust ass, kill LSAT. Visit every school you get into and go with what fits. Then flip the pyramid and focus on self actualization. No questions, just all action jackson.

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alexonfyre
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby alexonfyre » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:05 am

mallard wrote:
alexonfyre wrote:Also, like I said, I don't feel like I need to go to a t14, I just want to, and I have found that accomplishing anything is a combination of taking a lot of shit (like someone else said) and working with the right people. I don't really care if I find the right people at Cooley, but my goal is to find them. The reason for my interest in UCI is the students' necessary traits as risk takers and builders. Those are the types I want to meet.


LOL. You're not going to meet "risk takers and builders" at law school. It's a profession that's about understanding and navigating an already existing system and it is populated by risk-averse, not risk-prone people.


Fair enough, but that is why I am looking for a particular type of law school, I think that the vast majority of the law community is risk averse, but not all of it. If you don't think that you can improve society with the law by taking risks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Darrow
(I don't think of myself as holding a candle to him, but the point remains)

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mallard
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby mallard » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:06 am

The point doesn't remain.

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alexonfyre
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby alexonfyre » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:11 am

goawaybee wrote:
mallard wrote:LOL. You're not going to meet "risk takers and builders" at law school. It's a profession that's about understanding and navigating an already existing system and it is populated by risk-averse, not risk-prone people.


THIS.

You might discover a random variable here and there but I agree for the most part. After pondering a bit more. Taking shit is a tad different than straight up eating it. The right people thing, Life is Chess type of situation. People are inescapable. To make the universe better people are disposable. To increase quality of life for the human race they are kind of essential. Network yes, knowing how to manipulate it and orchestrate is knowledge gained via life experience. Take a group of career minded people at 22 much is based on projection and 2nd hand accounts. Much is to be gained once you enter the work force but then to truly gain and apply the knowledge from those experience takes a lifetime.

You want to go to LS, bust ass, kill LSAT. Visit every school you get into and go with what fits. Then flip the pyramid and focus on self actualization. No questions, just all action jackson.


Nothing you said is wrong, but the point of this discussion is to figure out where I should apply, I understand I have to do all of those things to actually get in. The rest is also interesting food for thought, but doesn't really help me with figuring out where to go. I am trying my hardest to justify my convictions to everyone, but perhaps it is an exercise in futility.

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mallard
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby mallard » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:12 am

Your convictions emerge from what seems like a misunderstanding of law and the legal profession.

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alexonfyre
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby alexonfyre » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:17 am

mallard wrote:Your convictions emerge from what seems like a misunderstanding of law and the legal profession.

I believe your criticism emerges from a misunderstanding of my convictions.

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PKSebben
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby PKSebben » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:18 am

mallard wrote:Your convictions emerge from what seems like a misunderstanding of law and the legal profession.


And your convictions emerge because you are a bitter fuck.

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mallard
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby mallard » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:19 am

alexonfyre wrote:
mallard wrote:Your convictions emerge from what seems like a misunderstanding of law and the legal profession.

I believe your criticism emerges from a misunderstanding of my convictions.


Could be. Somehow, though, it seems like you should be more careful about the legal profession than I should be about your convictions.

Very true, PK.

TheOcho
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby TheOcho » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:19 am

It's good you want to make a change in the world. Being mildly naive and slangin' cliches won't do it, however.

You don't need a law degree to change the world. If you want to get a law degree, just for the fuck of it, go ahead. If you really want to make a change in the world you don't need be sitting around on TLS forums asking people how to do it. Just go do it.

Good luck.

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alexonfyre
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby alexonfyre » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:27 am

TheOcho wrote:It's good you want to make a change in the world. Being mildly naive and slangin' cliches won't do it, however.

You don't need a law degree to change the world. If you want to get a law degree, just for the fuck of it, go ahead. If you really want to make a change in the world you don't need be sitting around on TLS forums asking people how to do it. Just go do it.

Good luck.


Yeah, I didn't plan on having this conversation, I suppose I expected people to roll their eyes at me and tell me a school and think "What a tool" and get over it. All I really want is help making a short list come application time. I also wanted to rule out schools with "walls."
The best advice I have so far from here is to visit every school I apply to and choose that way. I still need help figuring out where to apply.

EDIT: Also, seriously, I may be naive about the world, but I am not about the legal profession. Seriously, I have been talking and working with lawyers for the past 2 and a half years, big firms, SPs, variety of different fields. I get it. I want a JD, I want to be a lawyer, I want to practice law as a profession. I understand that it is a serious investment to go to law school, and shouldn't be taken lightly, and I don't. All the same I have goals for my life, pie in the sky, perhaps nescient goals, but goals nonetheless, and law school will be the last time I will be able to focus on those goals until I establish my career and get the latitude to really pursue them. That is why this is very important to me. Time and again I have felt like I have wasted my time in school by being in the wrong place or with the wrong people, I will not have that happen again. It happened in the first place because I ignored my feelings on the matter for so long (thinking, naturally, that I was being naive and needed to be more practical.) I refuse to have that happen again.
Last edited by alexonfyre on Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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goawaybee
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby goawaybee » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:31 am

alexonfyre wrote:
Nothing you said is wrong, but the point of this discussion is to figure out where I should apply, I understand I have to do all of those things to actually get in.... but doesn't really help me with figuring out where to go. I am trying my hardest to justify my convictions to everyone, but perhaps it is an exercise in futility.


This is all on you.

The admissions game is fairly straightforward. Play with that law school predictor, with a few variations of LSAT scores, and make a list. go online and research schools. If you got your numbers together and narrow down the list of 200 schools, well...then you can start to FIGURE IT OUT. Get it down to 10 schools and go visit them if your numbers are a bit weak, especially before your app. goes complete. Save yourself from auto trash deposit. If you don't like them, all good. If they don't like you, all good. Fine tune, focus and squeeze trigger. This is real life, just like making the world a better place. Get in peoples faces, sort the shit and make it happen. This asking for advice just to argue a bit or reinforce your world view is futile to an extent. The rest of us are fairly set in our ways as well. Human existence. not so complex in the end.

Should I buy the blue house in Houston or the shit shack near the beach in Salvador da Bahia? simple decision. FOR ME. BANG

acciones....kind of like pudding.

TheOcho
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby TheOcho » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:33 am

alexonfyre wrote:
TheOcho wrote:It's good you want to make a change in the world. Being mildly naive and slangin' cliches won't do it, however.

You don't need a law degree to change the world. If you want to get a law degree, just for the fuck of it, go ahead. If you really want to make a change in the world you don't need be sitting around on TLS forums asking people how to do it. Just go do it.

Good luck.


Yeah, I didn't plan on having this conversation, I suppose I expected people to roll their eyes at me and tell me a school and think "What a tool" and get over it. All I really want is help making a short list come application time. I also wanted to rule out schools with "walls."
The best advice I have so far from here is to visit every school I apply to and choose that way. I still need help figuring out where to apply.


I don't think you're a tool. I think you're a little naive. But then again, what the fuck do I know?

Go to a school in an area you think you'll want to work. I'm not sure what work entails for you (cleaning baby sea otters or wiping the ass of homeless men, I'm not sure), but your best shot at a job is in the area you went to school, if no T14.

Work your way up from there (where you are working to, I'm not sure). If you are hell-bent on attending law school and think that's the only (or best) way you can accomplish your goals, do that. If debt isn't an issue for you, you'll probably be fine. You might be poor, but you won't get molested by debt.

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PKSebben
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby PKSebben » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:35 am

alexonfyre wrote:
TheOcho wrote:It's good you want to make a change in the world. Being mildly naive and slangin' cliches won't do it, however.

You don't need a law degree to change the world. If you want to get a law degree, just for the fuck of it, go ahead. If you really want to make a change in the world you don't need be sitting around on TLS forums asking people how to do it. Just go do it.

Good luck.


Yeah, I didn't plan on having this conversation, I suppose I expected people to roll their eyes at me and tell me a school and think "What a tool" and get over it. All I really want is help making a short list come application time. I also wanted to rule out schools with "walls."
The best advice I have so far from here is to visit every school I apply to and choose that way. I still need help figuring out where to apply.


To be fair, there were a lot of pretty inspiring people at my law school doing really interesting things with their lives. Seems like every day I heard of someone else starting a non-profit or devoting their free time to a sweet pro bono case. I had some opportunities to do some really interesting things in law school, including work on some really cutting edge IP work, and worked on pro bono / advocacy cases so kickass that I can't even spill what I've worked on because of how sensitive it is. I'm no true believer, but there is plenty of room to apply yourself to things you believe in while in law school.

But Mallard is also very right, even if he does come off as bitter. My major beef with law school is that because of the really overwhelming class bias in elite law schools, everyone plays it safe. The elite, by and large, don't take positions because they are too busy looking out for themselves. Law schools try and sell you on a stimulating academic dialog between divergent viewpoints. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

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alexonfyre
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Re: light on selectivity, heavy on talented students?

Postby alexonfyre » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:37 am

Check the edit up top, answered a bit of this stuff.




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