Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

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megaTTTron
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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:01 am

romothesavior wrote:You should apply to Old Navy.

And retake the LSAT right after that.


haha. didn't recognize the new 'tar. recognized the sarcasm. but seriously, +1.

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MusicNutMeggie
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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby MusicNutMeggie » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:46 am

RETAKE! Seriously. Even a 160 will improve your opportunities by leaps and bounds.

BTW, even though you're a non-URM "other Hispanic", you can sell it with a killer diversity statement. MILK IT.

I would point out to some posters ITT that a 3.88, while a great GPA (no question), is actually easier to get at Ivy League schools than at many other universities; it's the same concept behind the T14 having higher median GPAs (i.e., a gentler curve-- NOT admissions GPAs) than lower-ranked law schools. Grade inflation FTW.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby MrKappus » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:29 am

MusicNutMeggie wrote:I would point out to some posters ITT that a 3.88, while a great GPA (no question), is actually easier to get at Ivy League schools than at many other universities; it's the same concept behind the T14 having higher median GPAs (i.e., a gentler curve-- NOT admissions GPAs) than lower-ranked law schools. Grade inflation FTW.


This would only be true if the quality of the students (i.e., the competition) at low-ranked and high-ranked schools were constant. If you're at a top school (ug, law, whatever) competing against smarter ppl (on avg), then your 80th %ile GPA should be higher than the 80th %ile GPA of a student at a lower ranked school, because it's harder to get.

OP: retake.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby Fark-o-vision » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:34 am

xyzzzzzzzz wrote:
Fark-o-vision wrote:I would kill for a 3.88 from my state school. Spend all summer studying and retake in October. You literally have the opportunity to make millions of dollars by studying for the next three months. Isn't that worth it?

By millions of course, I mean the opportunity to go from, "consider" at some schools all the way to full ride scholarships at better schools. 150k in law school debt, plus the better shot at biglaw, plus the better exit options.


hyperbole ftw.


I don't think you know what hyperbole is.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:23 am

,
Last edited by xyzzzzzzzz on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby Fark-o-vision » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:40 am

xyzzzzzzzz wrote:
Fark-o-vision wrote:
xyzzzzzzzz wrote:
Fark-o-vision wrote:I would kill for a 3.88 from my state school. Spend all summer studying and retake in October. You literally have the opportunity to make millions of dollars by studying for the next three months. Isn't that worth it?

By millions of course, I mean the opportunity to go from, "consider" at some schools all the way to full ride scholarships at better schools. 150k in law school debt, plus the better shot at biglaw, plus the better exit options.


hyperbole ftw.


I don't think you know what hyperbole is.



I think it would have been sufficient to just tell the OP to study.


Generally, yes, but I think a lot of people, young people especially, are short-sighted about what this test means. They don't really understand the difference in value of a 155 or a 163. As a URM, if she qualifies, that could be a major difference not only in scholarship possibilities, but also in biglaw/government potential and that makes a difference in lateral opportunities. I believe people can succeed where ever they go, but why not make things easier/more cost effective? It literally could be millions in the scope of a lifetime.

She pays 190K to go to Montana to basically have a 50/50 shot at 40K. Maybe a 5% shot at 140K? Let's say she does better, moves to Vandy, or WUSTL, and get's a half ride. That's 60K-100K for a 30% shot at biglaw/clerkship, which brings a percentage shot at lateral opportunities. You pepper in some luck and the difference, in terms of a lifetime, could easily be two or three million.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby somewhatwayward » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:44 am

how many practice tests have you taken? you really can't gauge your final performance from a couple practice tests. also, what course are you taking (don't take kaplan...)?

edit: there isn't a very strong correlation between SAT scores and LSAT scores, but there is some, and your SAT score suggests you are capable of a much higher score.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:20 pm

MrKappus wrote:
MusicNutMeggie wrote:I would point out to some posters ITT that a 3.88, while a great GPA (no question), is actually easier to get at Ivy League schools than at many other universities; it's the same concept behind the T14 having higher median GPAs (i.e., a gentler curve-- NOT admissions GPAs) than lower-ranked law schools. Grade inflation FTW.


This would only be true if the quality of the students (i.e., the competition) at low-ranked and high-ranked schools were constant. If you're at a top school (ug, law, whatever) competing against smarter ppl (on avg), then your 80th %ile GPA should be higher than the 80th %ile GPA of a student at a lower ranked school, because it's harder to get.


Whaaaaa, I'm a special snowflake and so much smarter than everyone else who came to this school in past years to learn history and English and anything else that doesn't involve math, give me an A. My parents and my HS guidance counsel told me so!

-

OP - You're what they make LSAT prep courses for. Take one, get a 160-something at least. Then either go to a good LS for cheap/free or a very good law school.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby fa32982 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:44 pm

I think that either of the Rutgers is a good fit for you, although they might want a little bit higher LSAT, you have a real good chance at Hofstra and NYLS. I think that you can get your LSAT up, especially since you are in a prep course, just study as hard as you can. Don't listen to these people that say you should choose another career, that is idiotic nonsense. I know an Ivy league grad that is working for an insurance company making peanuts and I know others having a hard time finding employment at all, the economy sucks that bad. On the other hand I know an Albany Law School grad, which is a third tier school, that is making $75,000 a year with great benefits, that is much better than working at an insurance company. People with regular bachelors degrees are having a rough go getting a job, but even the law schools that are lowest on the totem have 80-90% employment rates 9 months after graduation, think about that. That means that even the people who place in the bottom 25% of their classes in third tier schools have a good chance at getting hired, much better than people with regular bachelors. Why consider changing careers? I have been looking at this site for a year and the greatest advice that I can give you is don't listen to half of these snobs who act like they all got 180s on their LSATs and go to Yale. Lots of chiefs on this site and not many indians. Pick a school that fits your stats and go for it, you are a smart person, your list looks pretty good, study hard and good luck.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:22 pm

.
Last edited by xyzzzzzzzz on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby masterthearts » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:38 pm

hellokitty wrote:
lawgod wrote:I hope you take this the way I mean it.
If you got into an Ivy league undergrad and kept a 3.88 GPA, it sounds like you are very intelligent and highly skilled. If you cannot beat a 154 lsat, I think you should reconsider whether law school is the right choice for you. It seems as if your personal skills are not in the legal field, but elsewhere. You should find that elsewhere because that is your best chance to excel.
Even if you manage to get into a great school with your gpa and urm, statistically, you will likely not do extremely well as a law student or a lawyer.
get that lsat under control or maybe reconsider

OP isn't a URM. Correct me if I misread.



YOU ARE SO WRONG. LSAT ONLY measures your likelihood of success in your first year of law school, and nothing else. LSAT score DOES NOT measure your chances of success in the field of law. How wrong you are!
But, the likelihood of success in your first year doesn't only depend on lsat score, in my opinion. What about ambition and determination?...and # of hours put into studying?

And,yes, I am Hispanic, but of South American heritage, not Mexican or PR. So, not sure if my urm status counts. I know for sure it counted in college..

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby Tautology » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:42 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
James Bond wrote:
masterthearts wrote: I only got a 1410 on my SAT


Not saying that I'm not up there, but "only?" lol :roll:


Maybe she means on the 2100 scale they use.


But then that would be dreadful, especially since it's a 2400 scale.

1410 (on the old test that I took back in the day) is nothing to be ashamed of, and is certainly not the equivalent of a 154 though.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby masterthearts » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:55 pm

Tautology wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
James Bond wrote:
masterthearts wrote: I only got a 1410 on my SAT


Not saying that I'm not up there, but "only?" lol :roll:


Maybe she means on the 2100 scale they use.


But then that would be dreadful, especially since it's a 2400 scale.

1410 (on the old test that I took back in the day) is nothing to be ashamed of, and is certainly not the equivalent of a 154 though.


1410 was only the math and reading section of the SAT. If you include the writing, then the scores was 2130. However, writing wasn't really counted, even though you had to do the section. I took it in the 2nd year of the change.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby Tautology » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:00 pm

masterthearts wrote:1410 was only the math and reading section of the SAT. If you include the writing, then the scores was 2130. However, writing wasn't really counted, even though you had to do the section. I took it in the 2nd year of the change.


That kind of score has you around 95 percentile on the SAT then. That's the equivalent of a high 160's score on the LSAT. Obviously, the same skills are not tested on both tests, but I think you should be shooting for something better than a mid 150s score. High 160s gets you into the T14 easily, probably the T10. Even low 160s will get you into a T1 school or lots of money at the schools you're targeting.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby masterthearts » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:42 pm

Tautology wrote:
masterthearts wrote:1410 was only the math and reading section of the SAT. If you include the writing, then the scores was 2130. However, writing wasn't really counted, even though you had to do the section. I took it in the 2nd year of the change.


That kind of score has you around 95 percentile on the SAT then. That's the equivalent of a high 160's score on the LSAT. Obviously, the same skills are not tested on both tests, but I think you should be shooting for something better than a mid 150s score. High 160s gets you into the T14 easily, probably the T10. Even low 160s will get you into a T1 school or lots of money at the schools you're targeting.


Yep, that's what I'm aiming for...mid 160's. I'll be thrilled if I get high 160's. I'm actually enjoying the prepping for the lsat..I know, I must be weird.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:44 pm

masterthearts wrote:
hellokitty wrote:
lawgod wrote:I hope you take this the way I mean it.
If you got into an Ivy league undergrad and kept a 3.88 GPA, it sounds like you are very intelligent and highly skilled. If you cannot beat a 154 lsat, I think you should reconsider whether law school is the right choice for you. It seems as if your personal skills are not in the legal field, but elsewhere. You should find that elsewhere because that is your best chance to excel.
Even if you manage to get into a great school with your gpa and urm, statistically, you will likely not do extremely well as a law student or a lawyer.
get that lsat under control or maybe reconsider

OP isn't a URM. Correct me if I misread.



YOU ARE SO WRONG. LSAT ONLY measures your likelihood of success in your first year of law school, and nothing else. LSAT score DOES NOT measure your chances of success in the field of law. How wrong you are!
But, the likelihood of success in your first year doesn't only depend on lsat score, in my opinion. What about ambition and determination?...and # of hours put into studying?

And,yes, I am Hispanic, but of South American heritage, not Mexican or PR. So, not sure if my urm status counts. I know for sure it counted in college..


So put all your hard work into doing better on the LSAT. Then put all your hard work into law school. Top 10% at a T14 > Top 1% at a T2

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby 20121109 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:17 pm

masterthearts wrote:
hellokitty wrote:OP isn't a URM. Correct me if I misread.



YOU ARE SO WRONG. LSAT ONLY measures your likelihood of success in your first year of law school, and nothing else. LSAT score DOES NOT measure your chances of success in the field of law. How wrong you are!
But, the likelihood of success in your first year doesn't only depend on lsat score, in my opinion. What about ambition and determination?...and # of hours put into studying?

And,yes, I am Hispanic, but of South American heritage, not Mexican or PR. So, not sure if my urm status counts. I know for sure it counted in college..


Kitty is correct. You are not a URM. It doesn't matter whether it counted for college. If you are not African-American, Mexican, Puerto Rican, or Native American, you are not a URM. hth

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby MrKappus » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:17 pm

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:Whaaaaa, I'm a special snowflake and so much smarter than everyone else who came to this school in past years to learn history and English and anything else that doesn't involve math, give me an A. My parents and my HS guidance counsel told me so!


This is not a response to my argument. Enjoy law school.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby lawgod » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:34 am

masterthearts wrote:
hellokitty wrote:
lawgod wrote:I hope you take this the way I mean it.
If you got into an Ivy league undergrad and kept a 3.88 GPA, it sounds like you are very intelligent and highly skilled. If you cannot beat a 154 lsat, I think you should reconsider whether law school is the right choice for you. It seems as if your personal skills are not in the legal field, but elsewhere. You should find that elsewhere because that is your best chance to excel.
Even if you manage to get into a great school with your gpa and urm, statistically, you will likely not do extremely well as a law student or a lawyer.
get that lsat under control or maybe reconsider




YOU ARE SO WRONG. LSAT ONLY measures your likelihood of success in your first year of law school, and nothing else. LSAT score DOES NOT measure your chances of success in the field of law. How wrong you are!
But, the likelihood of success in your first year doesn't only depend on lsat score, in my opinion. What about ambition and determination?...and # of hours put into studying?

And,yes, I am Hispanic, but of South American heritage, not Mexican or PR. So, not sure if my urm status counts. I know for sure it counted in college..


right. so for example, that wasn't the way I meant for you to take it.
Look. your'e right. LSAT isn't everything. But it must be something or law schools wouldn't base their decisions so heavily on it. I only meant to say that from reading your opening post it seemed as if you might get better utility out of your talents in a different profession. I hope I'm not discouraging you and I really hope you do well in whatever you do.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby masterthearts » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:00 am

Well, even if I got a got a 154 on the lsat (and I expect to do better based on how the studying is going), I can definitely get into several schools. I expect to do fine as a lawyer and I am not interested in doing anything else, but lawyering.
After all, Judge Judy went to NY Law. Gov. of NJ (Chris Christie) went to Seton Hall....both are 3rd (or 4th tier schools). And there are MANY more cases like this.
A top law school will help with your first job,and that's about it.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby Interminable_Waiting » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:42 am

masterthearts wrote:Well, even if I got a got a 154 on the lsat (and I expect to do better based on how the studying is going), I can definitely get into several schools. I expect to do fine as a lawyer and I am not interested in doing anything else, but lawyering.
After all, Judge Judy went to NY Law. Gov. of NJ (Chris Christie) went to Seton Hall....both are 3rd (or 4th tier schools). And there are MANY more cases like this.
A top law school will help with your first job,and that's about it.



I thought you were for real, but based on this response....

Flame.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby dgthree » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:56 am

the people who say retake... READ WHAT THEY POSTED.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby masterthearts » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:24 am

xyzzzzzzzz wrote:Generally, yes, but I think a lot of people, young people especially, are short-sighted about what this test means. They don't really understand the difference in value of a 155 or a 163. As a URM, if she qualifies, that could be a major difference not only in scholarship possibilities, but also in biglaw/government potential and that makes a difference in lateral opportunities. I believe people can succeed where ever they go, but why not make things easier/more cost effective? It literally could be millions in the scope of a lifetime.

She pays 190K to go to Montana to basically have a 50/50 shot at 40K. Maybe a 5% shot at 140K? Let's say she does better, moves to Vandy, or WUSTL, and get's a half ride. That's 60K-100K for a 30% shot at biglaw/clerkship, which brings a percentage shot at lateral opportunities. You pepper in some luck and the difference, in terms of a lifetime, could easily be two or three million.


I still think you are being overly optimistic. To have a decent chance at biglaw (ite) OP needs to go to a t14 or t20. Or Op needs be at the top of her/his class at a regional school that places well into its home market. You mentioned full rides. I can only think of a handful of top schools that give those out. They usually go to kids with HYS numbers. The Op does not have those numbers yet. I'm not saying the OP can't do the above, but you are way assuming too much. At least wait til she/he has an actual LSAT score, before saying the OP will make millions. Even if the OP went to a top school and top grades, he/she could hate biglaw and drop out or burn out or want to do something else.There is no guarantee OP will like biglaw or become partner. Heck, the OP could end up below median at a lower T1 with a boatload of debt.

I'm just saying that it is unfair to the OP to speculate about future opportunities when he/she hasn't applied yet. The economy is still bad.[/quote]

I am not at all interested in big law, actually.
I won't have any debt..parents are paying.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby Topher » Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:37 am

James Bond wrote:
masterthearts wrote: I only got a 1410 on my SAT


Not saying that I'm not up there, but "only?" lol :roll:



I mean, I always relatively happy with that SAT score (out of 1600)...I only had 4 friends do better than me on it in high school. Since they also did their homework all the time and studied for tests, they also got into better schools than me (On'es at Harvard, One's at Yale - took him three tries to beat me, and one is at UVA; the fourth was our valedictorian who wound up going to our state school simply because he couldn't get any financial aid at the Iveys).

But on the real subjecgt of the thread, I'd say retake the LSAT it after taking a course, as has already been suggested, because I can't think that someone with a 3.88 gpa from an Ivey is so average on a test. I mean, you can say that you think your URM status got you into the Ivey in the first place all you want, but it's not like there's affirmative action in grading. Clearly something is just not clicking that a class may be able to solve.

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Re: Applying in the fall, but to where? 3.88 gpa; 154 lsat. Ivy

Postby masterthearts » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:49 am

Topher wrote:
James Bond wrote:
masterthearts wrote: I only got a 1410 on my SAT


Not saying that I'm not up there, but "only?" lol :roll:



I mean, I always relatively happy with that SAT score (out of 1600)...I only had 4 friends do better than me on it in high school. Since they also did their homework all the time and studied for tests, they also got into better schools than me (On'es at Harvard, One's at Yale - took him three tries to beat me, and one is at UVA; the fourth was our valedictorian who wound up going to our state school simply because he couldn't get any financial aid at the Iveys).

But on the real subjecgt of the thread, I'd say retake the LSAT it after taking a course, as has already been suggested, because I can't think that someone with a 3.88 gpa from an Ivey is so average on a test. I mean, you can say that you think your URM status got you into the Ivey in the first place all you want, but it's not like there's affirmative action in grading. Clearly something is just not clicking that a class may be able to solve.


I NEVER took the LSAT. I am only giving you my scores on the PRACTICE exams I have done. I am seriously studying now and hope to improve on the practice exams, and to do well on the lsat when I take it in oct.




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