Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

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Tifoso
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Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby Tifoso » Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:39 pm

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Last edited by Tifoso on Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

miamiman
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby miamiman » Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:42 pm

There's a lot of complexity here, most of which only you can address. That said, if you want to be a law school professor above all, I think it'd be best to pursue the JD/PhD. And you can't really do better than a full scholarship offer + stipend.

Best of luck.

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pinkzeppelin
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby pinkzeppelin » Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:51 pm

Not that Northwestern is a bad school, but HYS dominance in the law professor arena is outstanding. If you want to teach right out of school then where you got your degree is especially influential. If you want to teach at Northwestern, then a degree from Northwestern will be fine. Otherwise, I would go to oxford and then shoot for HYS.

Good luck, you can't go wrong with any decision.

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merichard87
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby merichard87 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:57 pm

Not to hate on Northwestern or anything but damn, its Oxford. Go. Enjoy it. Come back and go to YLS.

09042014
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:04 pm

merichard87 wrote:Not to hate on Northwestern or anything but damn, its Oxford. Go. Enjoy it. Come back and go to YLS.


He probably doesn't have HYS numbers and no Oxford won't get him into YLS.

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merichard87
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby merichard87 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:08 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
merichard87 wrote:Not to hate on Northwestern or anything but damn, its Oxford. Go. Enjoy it. Come back and go to YLS.


He probably doesn't have HYS numbers and no Oxford won't get him into YLS.


I wasnt being totally serious. Just meant that Oxford is a good opportunity and he could come back and still attend a high ranking law school.

Tifoso
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby Tifoso » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:25 pm

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Last edited by Tifoso on Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

keg411
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby keg411 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:28 pm

How much is the Oxford degree going to cost?

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bk1
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby bk1 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:37 pm

keg411 wrote:How much is the Oxford degree going to cost?


OP has a fully scholly there, so cost of living only?

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acrossthelake
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:38 pm

If you're not anxious to actually finish up your education and start working, then it seems like a good deal. It's up to you how much time you want to spend in school.

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IAFG
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby IAFG » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:39 pm

Tifoso wrote:That means the only reason NOT to go to Oxford is "it is a waste of time." =

you want to be an academic. your whole life is a waste of time. rack up those degrees, son

fenway
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby fenway » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:50 pm

what a beast lol

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Borhas
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby Borhas » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:52 pm

Academia is a strange place, it might be the sort of place that looks favorably on someone studying at Oxford vs Northwestern. All else being equal I'd say go to Oxford, it seems like your cup of tea.

fenway
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby fenway » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:55 pm

and whether or not it is wholly practical, the opportunity to study at Oxford seems to be something that you'd regret not taking advantage of upon looking back on your life in 50 years. if you can go to HYS when you return that would obviously be great, but Northwestern is still a phenomenal school and you'd be graduating with no expenses (assuming your annual COL does not exceed your stipend).

toolfan
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby toolfan » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:04 pm

I don't fully understand option 3. If you take the time to get a D.Phil from Oxford, which will definitely take longer than the 2 year deferral NU has granted you, then you should just reapply to the t6 when your done studying at Oxford. Sure you'll lose one hell of an offer from NU, but your advanced degrees and research experiences should fare you well through your next cycle. You should check with t6 schools to see how long they will honor your LSAT score, though. For example, if it takes you 5 years to complete the D.Phil, then you might have to take the LSAT again. Maybe not. The LSAT should be the least of your worries.

If academia is your thing, go to Oxford. Enjoy the tradition, the prestige, the research, and Europe! Law school will still be here. Like I said, your experiences at Oxford and abroad could only help your chances at HYS, or at least to pull a similar deal from another t6.

Plus, it doesn't completely sound like you're set on NU, even with that kind of offer.
Last edited by toolfan on Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TCScrutinizer
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby TCScrutinizer » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:05 pm

The money from NU is pretty hard to pass up, but Oxford is Oxford. And with full tuition there? If your career path is academia, that M.Phil from Oxford is going to look pretty good.

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IAFG
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby IAFG » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:06 pm

toolfan wrote:I don't fully understand option 3. If you take the time to get a D.Phil from Oxford, which will definitely take longer than the 2 year deferral NU has granted you, then you should just reapply to the t6 when your done studying at Oxford.


if they won't let him advance to the D.Phil, NU becomes his fallback though. he can decide later.

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TCScrutinizer
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby TCScrutinizer » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:07 pm

IAFG wrote:
Tifoso wrote:That means the only reason NOT to go to Oxford is "it is a waste of time." =

you want to be an academic. your whole life is a waste of time. rack up those degrees, son


Also, TITCR.

toolfan
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby toolfan » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:09 pm

IAFG wrote:
toolfan wrote:I don't fully understand option 3. If you take the time to get a D.Phil from Oxford, which will definitely take longer than the 2 year deferral NU has granted you, then you should just reapply to the t6 when your done studying at Oxford.


if they won't let him advance to the D.Phil, NU becomes his fallback though. he can decide later.


Ah, guess I took it for granted that he or she would advance to the D.Phil. In that case, do your M.Phil and then re-evaluate. Definitely push to complete the D.Phil, though.

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verdandi
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby verdandi » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:10 pm

I would love to know what area the PhD is in, as well as the ranking of Northwestern vs. Oxford in that area. Two years ago I was also accepted to the JD/PhD program in Northwestern, with the PhD being in their American political science program. I turned it down for various reasons, but one of those reasons was that neither the JD NOR the PhD program in that field was a lock for solid placement at the academic level. I have since decided to hold off on the academic track for now, which has resulted in some very pro-law career decisionmaking of late, but that was the reason for the decision at the time.

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Mattalones
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby Mattalones » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:45 pm

From what I know about academia, it doesn't matter so much where you went to school if you went through a good program. The main thing is your list of publications and how often you get cited in other publications ... The mantra in tier 1 academia is "publish or die," not "Oxford over NU." Also, the $$$ should not be the main consideration (although it is a big one). The main thing should be the faculty at the school who will be able to help you work on the kind of things that you want to write.

*Faculty who specialize in your area of interest > Money > Prestige-dicing between good schools*

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verdandi
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby verdandi » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:56 pm

Mattalones wrote:*Faculty who specialize in your area of interest > Money > Prestige-dicing between good schools*


I'm not so sure about this. For PhD placement, I was under the impression that the prestige of your school does matter a great deal for your initial placement when you first go on the job market. Obviously someone who has a PhD from Harvard but has produced next to nothing in substantive academic work will have a tough time, but all things being equal, a name like Harvard, Stanford, Chicago or Yale carries a lot of weight when you start out. I have no doubt that you could make a reputation for yourself through scholarship no matter where you get your PhD, but placement opportunities right out of the gate will not be the same.

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Mattalones
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby Mattalones » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:44 pm

No way, man. The person who sponsors your PhD is a much bigger thing. If the leader of your field happens to be at a good but non-uber-prestigious school, which is the case a lot of the times, then having worked under him/her is a bigger deal than having the name-brand degree.

(By far, not a complete list)
For Physics, CU Boulder: John Hall
For Economics, Arizona State Temple: Elinore Ostrom
For Math, UCLA: Terence Tao


I know UCLA the better school on this list, but it would make sense for someone with aligned interests to choose UCLA for Terence Tao over simply going to Princeton or Harvard for a PhD just because of the name. The case is stronger for the first two links.

Publishing under the directorship of a big-deal Nobel Laureate, Fields Metal winer, etc in your field is way bigger thing than the school you attend. If fact, school-name is just a proxy for high quality people. Not to downplay how amazing places like Harvard or Stanford are; institutional prestige just shouldn't be the main consideration for PhD school choice.

Tifoso
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby Tifoso » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:38 pm

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Last edited by Tifoso on Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

005618502
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Re: Should I defer a great offer from Northwestern?

Postby 005618502 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:58 pm

Does that mean you are going to Oxford? for the 2 years then the D. Phil or back to get your J.D?




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