Canada/US joint law degrees

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apropos
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:28 pm

Canada/US joint law degrees

Postby apropos » Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:12 am

There seems to be some modest rise in joint law degree programs coordinated between schools in the US and Canada. NYU and Osgoode Hall is one. Alberta and Colorado is another. UBC/Hawaii is another. And there is at least one other from less respected schools.

So I'm a Canadian who will be applying to law school in the fall and intend to practice in the US. (I lived in Upstate New York for more of my life than Canada surprisingly and my girlfriend is american and we plan to live there.) I wonder what people think of these programs. What are they really worthwhile for? Are they worth it? For those who arent too familiar with them: they are 4 year programs leading to both a JD and an LLB or Canadian JD (Canadian law schools are starting to switch from using LLB to using JD).

My only thoughts are these:
(1) it would be kind of nice to have the option to practice in either country. (Though I imagine it wouldn't be that much easier given that I'd have to pass the bar years after practicing in the other country, and I could take the bar in Canada without a Canadian law degree with about a year of extra work.)
(2) It would be only slightly more expensive (even slightly cheaper in the Alberta/Colorado case) since I'd get Canadian tuition for the two years I spend at the Canadian school. -- Canadian tuition is a lot cheaper.
(3) It might open up some cool opportunities in immigration or international or otherwise cross-country legal matters.

On the other hand, I don't know if such a combined degree has less weight in any one country since I will have spent only two years at a law school in that country.

I could always take the bar in Canada or the US if I get a law degree from the other country, but I would need to fill some additional requirements which vary from province to province and state to state, and many states dont allow this at all from my understanding.

So mainly, I assume I'm missing something in all this. So any input on these is welcome and appreciated. It's just general info and impressions now, as I'm not directly making any decision here.

Edit: Also, if anyone knows if international (Canadian, of course) applicants have a disadvantage in admissions.

apropos
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: Canada/US joint law degrees

Postby apropos » Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:20 pm

No thoughts, huh?

Perhaps a couple of more direct questions:

(1) Is there any reason beyond cross-border portability to enroll in one of these programs?

(2) Is not being American (needing an F visa) a disadvantage for admission to American law schools?

(3) Would the portability within the US of a degree from a school like Hawaii or Colorado increase by having an Canadian law degree as well (for some areas of law at least)?


Any input would be helpful. If anyone has any, of course.

krj02004
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Canada/US joint law degrees

Postby krj02004 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:59 am

I think for International Law you would be very desirable with a dual degree.... perhaps business law too. Check out American U's joint degree with Canada (not sure which Canadian school it is).

I personally would only do NYU's or American's program. More national recognition in U.S.... especially on the East Coast.

apropos
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: Canada/US joint law degrees

Postby apropos » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:05 pm

krj02004 wrote:I think for International Law you would be very desirable with a dual degree.... perhaps business law too. Check out American U's joint degree with Canada (not sure which Canadian school it is).

I personally would only do NYU's or American's program. More national recognition in U.S.... especially on the East Coast.


Yeah, that's right. It's American and Ottawa.

I'm a little confused about why you say American has more national recognition than Colorado. Is that right? Colorado is just ranked higher.

NYU/Osgoode would indeed be an excellent choice. Lots of portability and prestige with both of those schools.

Besides that one, it's tough. I like the Hawaii/UBC choice because of location, but Hawaii can't be very portable, can it? Does it place well on the West Coast at least? Is there more portability in a joint degree than either of the degrees taken alone? I wish there were stats on this stuff.

krj02004
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Canada/US joint law degrees

Postby krj02004 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:08 am

apropos wrote:
krj02004 wrote:I think for International Law you would be very desirable with a dual degree.... perhaps business law too. Check out American U's joint degree with Canada (not sure which Canadian school it is).

I personally would only do NYU's or American's program. More national recognition in U.S.... especially on the East Coast.


Yeah, that's right. It's American and Ottawa.

I'm a little confused about why you say American has more national recognition than Colorado. Is that right? Colorado is just ranked higher.

NYU/Osgoode would indeed be an excellent choice. Lots of portability and prestige with both of those schools.

Besides that one, it's tough. I like the Hawaii/UBC choice because of location, but Hawaii can't be very portable, can it? Does it place well on the West Coast at least? Is there more portability in a joint degree than either of the degrees taken alone? I wish there were stats on this stuff.



American is definitely more portable on the East Coast than Colorado...when you get outside the top 20 or 30, pretty much schools are considered more regional. With a dual degree like the one you want, you are looking to market yourself in International law or Business law.... in other words, NYC or DC. American places way better in DC than Colorado. Colorado will only get you a Mid-West job. If you want to practice on the West Coast, there would no be a reason to get a Canadian degree, IMO. I don't really know how portable a Hawaii degree is, but I worked in biglaw in Los Angeles as a paralegal for 2 years... never met an attorney that was a graduate from Hawaii.

I say go for the NYU program first (it's cheaper too with Canadian tuition... you only have to pay 2 years at NYU), then try American as a back-up. I would also email.call.look up career services website for NYU and see what their grads from the dual degree program end up doing post-grad. This will tell you exactly what you will be doing. Also, are you an URM by any chance? Because Osgoode is heavily recruiting URM's. I almost applied because my mother is actually from Canada originally and I qualify for dual citizenship.... but I have kids and my ex-husband wasn't too keen on me leaving the country, haha. Couldn't blame him.

apropos
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: Canada/US joint law degrees

Postby apropos » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:18 pm

krj02004 wrote:
apropos wrote:
krj02004 wrote:I think for International Law you would be very desirable with a dual degree.... perhaps business law too. Check out American U's joint degree with Canada (not sure which Canadian school it is).

I personally would only do NYU's or American's program. More national recognition in U.S.... especially on the East Coast.


Yeah, that's right. It's American and Ottawa.

I'm a little confused about why you say American has more national recognition than Colorado. Is that right? Colorado is just ranked higher.

NYU/Osgoode would indeed be an excellent choice. Lots of portability and prestige with both of those schools.

Besides that one, it's tough. I like the Hawaii/UBC choice because of location, but Hawaii can't be very portable, can it? Does it place well on the West Coast at least? Is there more portability in a joint degree than either of the degrees taken alone? I wish there were stats on this stuff.



American is definitely more portable on the East Coast than Colorado...when you get outside the top 20 or 30, pretty much schools are considered more regional. With a dual degree like the one you want, you are looking to market yourself in International law or Business law.... in other words, NYC or DC. American places way better in DC than Colorado. Colorado will only get you a Mid-West job. If you want to practice on the West Coast, there would no be a reason to get a Canadian degree, IMO. I don't really know how portable a Hawaii degree is, but I worked in biglaw in Los Angeles as a paralegal for 2 years... never met an attorney that was a graduate from Hawaii.

I say go for the NYU program first (it's cheaper too with Canadian tuition... you only have to pay 2 years at NYU), then try American as a back-up. I would also email.call.look up career services website for NYU and see what their grads from the dual degree program end up doing post-grad. This will tell you exactly what you will be doing. Also, are you an URM by any chance? Because Osgoode is heavily recruiting URM's. I almost applied because my mother is actually from Canada originally and I qualify for dual citizenship.... but I have kids and my ex-husband wasn't too keen on me leaving the country, haha. Couldn't blame him.


Alas, no URM status. I think I'd have a really good shot at Osgoode. My only liability is about a year and a half of a rather bad GPA. Other than that, I've been awfully close to a 4.0. Osgoode takes the best two years, so I'm pretty good there if I did as well on the LSAT as my PTs (low 170s). NYU would be a big stretch, though. That first year and a half does not behave nicely in LSAC's UGPA averaging. I don't know how NYU looks at the applications that come from second-year students at Osgoode, though. (That's when one would apply according to the website.) If it's different from applications out of undergrad, it might be possible. I'll have to look into that. If you have any idea, let me know.

Edit: Good to know about Hawaii. UBC/UWash-Seattle wouldve been more ideal. I guess theyre after the asian studies stuff, though. University of Victoria should do it. They'd make a good match. .. Done dreaming..

krj02004
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: Canada/US joint law degrees

Postby krj02004 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:38 pm

apropos wrote:
krj02004 wrote:
apropos wrote:
krj02004 wrote:I think for International Law you would be very desirable with a dual degree.... perhaps business law too. Check out American U's joint degree with Canada (not sure which Canadian school it is).

I personally would only do NYU's or American's program. More national recognition in U.S.... especially on the East Coast.


Yeah, that's right. It's American and Ottawa.

I'm a little confused about why you say American has more national recognition than Colorado. Is that right? Colorado is just ranked higher.

NYU/Osgoode would indeed be an excellent choice. Lots of portability and prestige with both of those schools.

Besides that one, it's tough. I like the Hawaii/UBC choice because of location, but Hawaii can't be very portable, can it? Does it place well on the West Coast at least? Is there more portability in a joint degree than either of the degrees taken alone? I wish there were stats on this stuff.



American is definitely more portable on the East Coast than Colorado...when you get outside the top 20 or 30, pretty much schools are considered more regional. With a dual degree like the one you want, you are looking to market yourself in International law or Business law.... in other words, NYC or DC. American places way better in DC than Colorado. Colorado will only get you a Mid-West job. If you want to practice on the West Coast, there would no be a reason to get a Canadian degree, IMO. I don't really know how portable a Hawaii degree is, but I worked in biglaw in Los Angeles as a paralegal for 2 years... never met an attorney that was a graduate from Hawaii.

I say go for the NYU program first (it's cheaper too with Canadian tuition... you only have to pay 2 years at NYU), then try American as a back-up. I would also email.call.look up career services website for NYU and see what their grads from the dual degree program end up doing post-grad. This will tell you exactly what you will be doing. Also, are you an URM by any chance? Because Osgoode is heavily recruiting URM's. I almost applied because my mother is actually from Canada originally and I qualify for dual citizenship.... but I have kids and my ex-husband wasn't too keen on me leaving the country, haha. Couldn't blame him.


Alas, no URM status. I think I'd have a really good shot at Osgoode. My only liability is about a year and a half of a rather bad GPA. Other than that, I've been awfully close to a 4.0. Osgoode takes the best two years, so I'm pretty good there if I did as well on the LSAT as my PTs (low 170s). NYU would be a big stretch, though. That first year and a half does not behave nicely in LSAC's UGPA averaging. I don't know how NYU looks at the applications that come from second-year students at Osgoode, though. (That's when one would apply according to the website.) If it's different from applications out of undergrad, it might be possible. I'll have to look into that. If you have any idea, let me know.

Edit: Good to know about Hawaii. UBC/UWash-Seattle wouldve been more ideal. I guess theyre after the asian studies stuff, though. University of Victoria should do it. They'd make a good match. .. Done dreaming..



No no... you ave the option at the NYU program to do your 1st 2 years at NYU THEN Osgoode. DO THAT FIRST or you risk not getting into NYU after completing fist year at Osgoode.

apropos
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:28 pm

Re: Canada/US joint law degrees

Postby apropos » Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:13 pm

krj02004 wrote:

No no... you ave the option at the NYU program to do your 1st 2 years at NYU THEN Osgoode. DO THAT FIRST or you risk not getting into NYU after completing fist year at Osgoode.


Yes, of course. Cool. You've been very helpful here. Thanks.




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