Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

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Biolgy
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Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Biolgy » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:05 pm

Hey everyone,

I just got into Fordham PT (was on the waitlist) and now I'm a bit confused about where I should go. I was planning on attending Rutgers Newark in the Fall FT (with a $10,000 scholarship). Is Fordham really worth the debt? Should I choose Fordham PT or Rutgers Newark FT? Thanks in advance.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:06 pm

Biolgy wrote:Hey everyone,

I just got into Fordham PT (was on the waitlist) and now I'm a bit confused about where I should go. I was planning on attending Rutgers Newark in the Fall FT (with a $10,000 scholarship). Is Fordham really worth the debt? Should I choose Fordham PT or Rutgers Newark FT? Thanks in advance.


Foooooooooordham.

Biolgy
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Biolgy » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:07 pm

even with a 200K debt vs rutgers which will be 60-70K?

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merichard87
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby merichard87 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:07 pm

Do you want a shot at biglaw? If so, Fordham.

Biolgy
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Biolgy » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:08 pm

merichard87 wrote:Do you want a shot at biglaw? If so, Fordham.


Yes I do, but don't students from Rutgers also have a chance at biglaw in ny?

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megaTTTron
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:09 pm

Biolgy wrote:even with a 200K debt vs rutgers which will be 60-70K?



60-70k w/ no way to pay it off or 200k with options?

The real question is: what strings are attached to Rutgers' scholly? And can you leverage more out of them?

Biolgy
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Biolgy » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:12 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
Biolgy wrote:even with a 200K debt vs rutgers which will be 60-70K?



60-70k w/ no way to pay it off or 200k with options?

The real question is: what strings are attached to Rutgers' scholly? And can you leverage more out of them?


need to maintain a 3.0 gpa (they don't rank) and no they will not give more. I wouldn't say that by going to rutgers I would have "no way" to pay off my loans..they do have pretty good placement

keg411
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby keg411 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:14 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
Biolgy wrote:even with a 200K debt vs rutgers which will be 60-70K?



60-70k w/ no way to pay it off or 200k with options?

The real question is: what strings are attached to Rutgers' scholly? And can you leverage more out of them?


Extreme. You can get a job out of RU, it just likely won't be in BigLaw (talk to Rutgers_1L or MIA; they are both students at RU-N and have pretty good things to say about their classmates employment prospects; they're apparently not that bad). OP, it depends if you want to take the $$$ risk or not. Even if OP lost his RU scholly, it would still be MUCH cheaper than Fordham. However if you are willing to be risky and take $200k out for a shot at the "big time", then go for it. You will be working, which should help at least with COL.

I think it depends how much you could accept small law in NJ if you don't do great. I also think it's a very very tough decision and depends how debt-averse OP is.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:16 pm

Biolgy wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:
Biolgy wrote:even with a 200K debt vs rutgers which will be 60-70K?



60-70k w/ no way to pay it off or 200k with options?

The real question is: what strings are attached to Rutgers' scholly? And can you leverage more out of them?


need to maintain a 3.0 gpa (they don't rank) and no they will not give more. I wouldn't say that by going to rutgers I would have "no way" to pay off my loans..they do have pretty good placement


Oh yea? I find that hard to believe, given the over saturation of the east coast markets and the fact that you'll be confined to that area when you graduate. I don't know Rutgers' employment statistics, so perhaps I'm wrong. But I'll bet you'll have a much easier time paying off your debt at Fordham.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:18 pm

keg411 wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:
Biolgy wrote:even with a 200K debt vs rutgers which will be 60-70K?



60-70k w/ no way to pay it off or 200k with options?

The real question is: what strings are attached to Rutgers' scholly? And can you leverage more out of them?


Extreme. You can get a job out of RU, it just likely won't be in BigLaw (talk to Rutgers_1L or MIA; they are both students at RU-N and have pretty good things to say about their classmates employment prospects; they're apparently not that bad). OP, it depends if you want to take the $$$ risk or not. Even if OP lost his RU scholly, it would still be MUCH cheaper than Fordham. However if you are willing to be risky and take $200k out for a shot at the "big time", then go for it. You will be working, which should help at least with COL.

I think it depends how much you could accept small law in NJ if you don't do great. I also think it's a very very tough decision and depends how debt-averse OP is.


Yea haha, I'm over simplifying. But I disagree w/ the bolded. I think the less riskier move is Fordham. Cheaper doesn't mean it's less riskier when it's Rutgers and Fordham.

Biolgy
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Biolgy » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:19 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
Biolgy wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:
Biolgy wrote:even with a 200K debt vs rutgers which will be 60-70K?



60-70k w/ no way to pay it off or 200k with options?

The real question is: what strings are attached to Rutgers' scholly? And can you leverage more out of them?


need to maintain a 3.0 gpa (they don't rank) and no they will not give more. I wouldn't say that by going to rutgers I would have "no way" to pay off my loans..they do have pretty good placement


Oh yea? I find that hard to believe, given the over saturation of the east coast markets and the fact that you'll be confined to that area when you graduate. I don't know Rutgers' employment statistics, so perhaps I'm wrong. But I'll bet you'll have a much easier time paying off your debt at Fordham.


rutgers employment stats: --LinkRemoved--

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Cardboardbox
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Cardboardbox » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:20 pm

I say Fordham as well. If you're looking for Biglaw (so much more so ITE) it'll be infinitely easier from Fordham than Rutgers. The only thing that concerns me is that you're comparing Fordham PT to Rutgers FT. Are you prepared to go PT? I know you can transfer to FT after a year but I've heard of firms looking down on people who go the PT route without actually working too. Unless you plan on having something lined up.

Biolgy
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Biolgy » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:22 pm

Cardboardbox wrote:I say Fordham as well. If you're looking for Biglaw (so much more so ITE) it'll be infinitely easier from Fordham than Rutgers. The only thing that concerns me is that you're comparing Fordham PT to Rutgers FT. Are you prepared to go PT? I know you can transfer to FT after a year but I've heard of firms looking down on people who go the PT route without actually working too. Unless you plan on having something lined up.


I was planning on transferring to FT after my first year and I did get offered a job that I didn't take b/c I was thinking about going to RU FT, but now that Fordham is an option, I'm not really sure what to do. I know I can probably contact the job I was offered and take it or even find another job but even then is it really worth it?

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Mr. Matlock » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:23 pm

Cardboardbox wrote:I say Fordham as well. If you're looking for Biglaw (so much more so ITE) it'll be infinitely easier from Fordham than Rutgers. The only thing that concerns me is that you're comparing Fordham PT to Rutgers FT. Are you prepared to go PT? I know you can transfer to FT after a year but I've heard of firms looking down on people who go the PT route without actually working too. Unless you plan on having something lined up.

Curious as to where you heard that??????

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megaTTTron
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:24 pm

Biolgy wrote:
rutgers employment stats: --LinkRemoved--


Haha. The Rutgers law website will settle all of my concerns! Hahaha.

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Cardboardbox
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Cardboardbox » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:25 pm

Biolgy wrote:
Cardboardbox wrote:I say Fordham as well. If you're looking for Biglaw (so much more so ITE) it'll be infinitely easier from Fordham than Rutgers. The only thing that concerns me is that you're comparing Fordham PT to Rutgers FT. Are you prepared to go PT? I know you can transfer to FT after a year but I've heard of firms looking down on people who go the PT route without actually working too. Unless you plan on having something lined up.


I was planning on transferring to FT after my first year and I did get offered a job that I didn't take b/c I was thinking about going to RU FT, but now that Fordham is an option, I'm not really sure what to do. I know I can probably contact the job I was offered and take it or even find another job but even then is it really worth it?


Well, 0L speaking who's been riding WL for Fordham FT doing my best to get off so my opinion might be biased. But from what I've read and seen, yes the debt is worth it. You may want to seek out OperaSoprano or someone else who's in the Fordham PT program to get a first-hand opinion though.

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Cardboardbox
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Cardboardbox » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:27 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
Cardboardbox wrote:I say Fordham as well. If you're looking for Biglaw (so much more so ITE) it'll be infinitely easier from Fordham than Rutgers. The only thing that concerns me is that you're comparing Fordham PT to Rutgers FT. Are you prepared to go PT? I know you can transfer to FT after a year but I've heard of firms looking down on people who go the PT route without actually working too. Unless you plan on having something lined up.

Curious as to where you heard that??????


On TLS so hardly the best of sources LOL. nothing official so I may just be qouting misinformation and if I am, I apologize. But it seems like a valid concern and I would expect an interviewer, be it for a legal position or any other to question why someone would go to a PT program without working at the same time or without having any other valid reason for choosing the PT route.

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HazelEyes
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby HazelEyes » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:31 pm

Cardboardbox wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:
Cardboardbox wrote:I say Fordham as well. If you're looking for Biglaw (so much more so ITE) it'll be infinitely easier from Fordham than Rutgers. The only thing that concerns me is that you're comparing Fordham PT to Rutgers FT. Are you prepared to go PT? I know you can transfer to FT after a year but I've heard of firms looking down on people who go the PT route without actually working too. Unless you plan on having something lined up.

Curious as to where you heard that??????


On TLS so hardly the best of sources LOL. nothing official so I may just be qouting misinformation and if I am, I apologize. But it seems like a valid concern and I would expect an interviewer, be it for a legal position or any other to question why someone would go to a PT program without working at the same time or without having any other valid reason for choosing the PT route.


I chose a PT higher ranked program over a FT lower ranked one. I don't regret my decision at all. I say go for Fordham. I wouldn't think twice about it, and if need be, find a nice internship to fill your free time. As long as you can fill in the spaces on your resume, no one should care, IMO. Lastly, many PT programs offer a chance to switch to FT after a semester or a year, so if you want, you may be able to graduate in the FT program, erasing all doubt.

TAKE FORDHAM.

get it to x
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby get it to x » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:33 pm

Chances on BigLaw from Fordham drop dramatically if you're outside of the top 1/3 I believe. Rutgers grads have great placement in Jersey (and starting salaries slightly less than NYC) if that's a viable option for you. Philly is also an option although Camden has more of an effect there. NYC from Rutgers is very possible for mid-law and BigLaw is an option if you can get to the top of your class.
Depends on how much you want Biglaw and how much you're willing to go into debt. If name recognition means anything lawyers I've spoken to in NYC think very highly of Rutgers grads and Fordham grads although Rutgers grads are fewer in number b/c of the school's small size.

Biolgy
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Biolgy » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:36 pm

get it to x wrote:Chances on BigLaw from Fordham drop dramatically if you're outside of the top 1/3 I believe. Rutgers grads have great placement in Jersey (and starting salaries slightly less than NYC) if that's a viable option for you. Philly is also an option although Camden has more of an effect there. NYC from Rutgers is very possible for mid-law and BigLaw is an option if you can get to the top of your class.
Depends on how much you want Biglaw and how much you're willing to go into debt. If name recognition means anything lawyers I've spoken to in NYC think very highly of Rutgers grads and Fordham grads although Rutgers grads are fewer in number b/c of the school's small size.


NYC vs Newark makes really no difference to me, I went to RU-N for undergrad + my MBA so I'm very comfortable with Newark and that is not a factor in my decision. I would love to go to Fordham but it's so expensive and like you said you really need to be in the top 1/3 of the class to really have a good chance at biglaw.

keg411
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby keg411 » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:39 pm

I'd say that Fordham is the "high risk, high reward" option, and there is a little more margin for error (you're probably okay at Top 20-25% or so, but below that, with $200k debt, it gets sticky). Rutgers is the "debt averse" option (ie. if you don't finish in the top 10-15%, you'll be shut out of BigLaw entirely, but you won't have $$$$ to pay off). I don't know which category OP falls under.

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holydonkey
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby holydonkey » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:44 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
Biolgy wrote:rutgers employment stats: --LinkRemoved--
Haha. The Rutgers law website will settle all of my concerns! Hahaha.
Wow! I wonder who the 2009 Rutgers grad making $400k in Business and Industry is? I bet they love him for boosting the average salary.

sumus romani
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby sumus romani » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:47 pm

get it to x wrote:Chances on BigLaw from Fordham drop dramatically if you're outside of the top 1/3 I believe. Rutgers grads have great placement in Jersey (and starting salaries slightly less than NYC) if that's a viable option for you. Philly is also an option although Camden has more of an effect there. NYC from Rutgers is very possible for mid-law and BigLaw is an option if you can get to the top of your class.
Depends on how much you want Biglaw and how much you're willing to go into debt. If name recognition means anything lawyers I've spoken to in NYC think very highly of Rutgers grads and Fordham grads although Rutgers grads are fewer in number b/c of the school's small size.



Fordham does not place anywhere near 1/3 into biglaw in this economy. While it is hard to come by verifiable data, people from MVP report on TLS that those schools are placing less than half into biglaw. Fordham has got to be way, way below that. Paying sticker at Fordham in this economy is a poor financial decision. If anyone has a verified source indicating Fordham's biglaw placement, I'd love to see it.

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Matthies
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby Matthies » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:50 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
Cardboardbox wrote:I say Fordham as well. If you're looking for Biglaw (so much more so ITE) it'll be infinitely easier from Fordham than Rutgers. The only thing that concerns me is that you're comparing Fordham PT to Rutgers FT. Are you prepared to go PT? I know you can transfer to FT after a year but I've heard of firms looking down on people who go the PT route without actually working too. Unless you plan on having something lined up.

Curious as to where you heard that??????


Where all information people use to make decisions for themselves comes from on the internet: anonymous posters who have not done the things they speak with confidence about to the prospects of someone else doing them.

get it to x
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Re: Just got into Fordham!! Now confused...

Postby get it to x » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:53 pm

Fordham is also going to naturally push you in the biglaw direction because of the cost so you might want to factor that into your decision as well. Fordham's degree, from what I've seen, is not portable outside NY. With the legal market the way it is, I'd rather have the comfort of being able to place in three potential markets versus one. That's why I felt Brooklyn and SJU were very dangerous options without significant scholarship money right now. Fordham is another rung up but still presents the same problems if you're below that 1/3 mark. I think Rutgers gets a bad rap on here b/c of a) its rank and b) its location. From what I've seen, the school takes care of its own and its placement is solid if you want to make 6 figures but don't care where you're practicing. Its holistic admissions process and relative de-emphasis on numbers will keep that rank about where it is unless USNWR switches things up.




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