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miamiman
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby miamiman » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:54 pm

delBarco wrote:
miamiman wrote:Biglaw is the most widely coveted entry level employment so...in a word, yes.


In Florida? A state very unique in having such a widely dispersed population, no, midlaw and small law easy far far far outnumber biglaw in the number of opening legal positions statewide. FSU's reputation is at worst second everywhere in the state outside of Miami (and maybe tampa).


coveted =/ available

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98234872348
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby 98234872348 » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:55 pm

Here, you want the answer?

Let me tell you something. If you want to practice in So Fla, I would recommend going to Miami if you can get it cheaply. If not, go to UF.

The reason i would recommend Miami is because you'll have better opportunities to network with other attorneys in Miami; the one thing I have found extremely lacking at UF is the ability to network with practicing attorneys in places I am interested in practicing in. Like, I don't want to practice law in Gainesville. I think that you would have more opportunities to meet attorneys in Miami. I mean, granted, you can meet attorneys going to UF anywhere in the state, but it is exceedingly more difficult. In this economy, the difference in placement between UF, FSU, and UM is negligible. None of these schools are placing well in Big Law, nor have they ever done so. But they are cheap and can offer you the opportunity to secure gainful employment in a good mid law firm making decent money.

But if you are facing UF vs. Miami full price, I don't think there is any question that Florida would be a better investment. 80k over three years is a good option. That's the truth.

In terms of FSU, I know a girl that goes there that went there for her own purposes. It is close to the supreme court of Florida and many government agencies. It places well in government and many lobbying firms in Tallahassee I imagine. obviously, going to UF, I don't have all the facts or answers. But, I believe that FSU is a good idea if you want to work in government or you want a cheap, thorough education and you don't want to live in Gainesville (which is horrible) for three years.

ultimately if you need more info, at least pertaining to UF, you can pm me.

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Grizz
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby Grizz » Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:56 pm

GATORTIM wrote:
rad law wrote:In this economy, if you aren't going to UF or FSU for in-state tuition or U. Miami or Stetson for substantial scholarship (and I mean close to full for Stetson), killself.

edit: clarity


you annoy me


Tampa/St. Pete legal market is a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Guess who suffers first.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:04 pm

miamiman wrote:
delBarco wrote:
miamiman wrote:Biglaw is the most widely coveted entry level employment so...in a word, yes.


In Florida? A state very unique in having such a widely dispersed population, no, midlaw and small law easy far far far outnumber biglaw in the number of opening legal positions statewide. FSU's reputation is at worst second everywhere in the state outside of Miami (and maybe tampa).


coveted =/ available


hmmm sometimes things just don't say what you want them to say.

keg411
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby keg411 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:31 pm

rad law wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:
rad law wrote:In this economy, if you aren't going to UF or FSU for in-state tuition or U. Miami or Stetson for substantial scholarship (and I mean close to full for Stetson), killself.

edit: clarity


you annoy me


Tampa/St. Pete legal market is a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Guess who suffers first.


rad, that's not all true according to my ex-bf from college who is a lawyer in that area. But I don't know about new hires since he got his first job a while ago. But he quit that one and was able to pretty easily get another one once he wanted to work again during the height of the recession. But maybe it was a different market for laterals or the fact that he worked in the FLA equivalent of BigLaw and quit (as opposed to being laid off) helped.

The work he hated was in construction law, which is apparently a MASSIVE field in Florida (or at least in the larger firms).

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Grizz
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby Grizz » Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:04 pm

keg411 wrote:
rad law wrote:Tampa/St. Pete legal market is a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Guess who suffers first.


rad, that's not all true according to my ex-bf from college who is a lawyer in that area. But I don't know about new hires since he got his first job a while ago. But he quit that one and was able to pretty easily get another one once he wanted to work again during the height of the recession. But maybe it was a different market for laterals or the fact that he worked in the FLA equivalent of BigLaw and quit (as opposed to being laid off) helped.

The work he hated was in construction law, which is apparently a MASSIVE field in Florida (or at least in the larger firms).


Glad it worked out for your ex-bf, but I haven't heard a good thing since I've been back. Laterals is slightly different. A close family member left the fed. govt. and got a couple offers actually. But new lawyer hiring is very much down, along with business in general.

keg411
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby keg411 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:58 pm

rad law wrote:
keg411 wrote:
rad law wrote:Tampa/St. Pete legal market is a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Guess who suffers first.


rad, that's not all true according to my ex-bf from college who is a lawyer in that area. But I don't know about new hires since he got his first job a while ago. But he quit that one and was able to pretty easily get another one once he wanted to work again during the height of the recession. But maybe it was a different market for laterals or the fact that he worked in the FLA equivalent of BigLaw and quit (as opposed to being laid off) helped.

The work he hated was in construction law, which is apparently a MASSIVE field in Florida (or at least in the larger firms).


Glad it worked out for your ex-bf, but I haven't heard a good thing since I've been back. Laterals is slightly different. A close family member left the fed. govt. and got a couple offers actually. But new lawyer hiring is very much down, along with business in general.


Yeah, I was referring to his second job so maybe it's different (like your family member). UF kept sending recruiters after him while he was taking the time off and he didn't want to work at all :lol:. I'm not heading back to Florida, but I know some law students there (all of the people I know who graduated a few years out are in good shape), but I'm too scared to ask the C/O '10'ers or rising 3L's where they are at because of all of the ITE issues in Florida.

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Grizz
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby Grizz » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:04 pm

keg411 wrote:Yeah, I was referring to his second job so maybe it's different (like your family member). UF kept sending recruiters after him while he was taking the time off and he didn't want to work at all :lol:. I'm not heading back to Florida, but I know some law students there (all of the people I know who graduated a few years out are in good shape), but I'm too scared to ask the C/O '10'ers or rising 3L's where they are at because of all of the ITE issues in Florida.


Mistergoft (2L) has expressed that ITE it's possible to get good jobs from UF, but the hiring is way down.

Another anecdote, but yet another family member (FL resident) graduated above median when the legal economy was good, but got a crappy job. She had to go back to get her LLM (in tax, from UF) so she could get a job that would let her help pay off her debt. Now she's still heavily indebted, and recommended not taking any debt to go to law school, even for the T17 where I'm going.

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98234872348
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:20 pm

rad law wrote:
keg411 wrote:Yeah, I was referring to his second job so maybe it's different (like your family member). UF kept sending recruiters after him while he was taking the time off and he didn't want to work at all :lol:. I'm not heading back to Florida, but I know some law students there (all of the people I know who graduated a few years out are in good shape), but I'm too scared to ask the C/O '10'ers or rising 3L's where they are at because of all of the ITE issues in Florida.


Mistergoft (2L) has expressed that ITE it's possible to get good jobs from UF, but the hiring is way down.

Another anecdote, but yet another family member (FL resident) graduated above median when the legal economy was good, but got a crappy job. She had to go back to get her LLM (in tax, from UF) so she could get a job that would let her help pay off her debt. Now she's still heavily indebted, and recommended not taking any debt to go to law school, even for the T17 where I'm going.

There are some students that got SA gigs, but they are the exception and not the rule...

I know MANY 2Ls doing unpaid internships. I actually work with a couple at the moment.

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GATORTIM
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby GATORTIM » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:27 pm

rad law wrote:
keg411 wrote:Yeah, I was referring to his second job so maybe it's different (like your family member). UF kept sending recruiters after him while he was taking the time off and he didn't want to work at all :lol:. I'm not heading back to Florida, but I know some law students there (all of the people I know who graduated a few years out are in good shape), but I'm too scared to ask the C/O '10'ers or rising 3L's where they are at because of all of the ITE issues in Florida.


Mistergoft (2L) has expressed that ITE it's possible to get good jobs from UF, but the hiring is way down.

Another anecdote, but yet another family member (FL resident) graduated above median when the legal economy was good, but got a crappy job. She had to go back to get her LLM (in tax, from UF) so she could get a job that would let her help pay off her debt. Now she's still heavily indebted, and recommended not taking any debt to go to law school, even for the T17 where I'm going.


Why dont you just say Vanderbilt? Your anecdotes and disdain for the legal market in Florida is less of some wordly insight of the legal market than it is just commentary on the current condition of most markets (business, science, engineering, gov't, etc)...they are all taking a hit.

miamiman
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby miamiman » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:36 pm

GATORTIM wrote:
Why dont you just say Vanderbilt? Your anecdotes and disdain for the legal market in Florida is less of some wordly insight of the legal market than it is just commentary on the current condition of most markets (business, science, engineering, gov't, etc)...they are all taking a hit.


Actually, the legal market in florida, one propped up largely by construction, tourism and real estate, has been disproportionately hit by ITE trends. Tampa/St. Pete was already a decaying, third-tier market prior to ITE; the current recession and decline in legal services nationally has simply hastened that death. Rad Law is -- as you point out -- a vandy troll but his trolling for vandy has absolutely nothing to do with the general precision of his commentary as it concerns Tampa/St Pete

keg411
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby keg411 » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:39 pm

rad law wrote:
keg411 wrote:Yeah, I was referring to his second job so maybe it's different (like your family member). UF kept sending recruiters after him while he was taking the time off and he didn't want to work at all :lol:. I'm not heading back to Florida, but I know some law students there (all of the people I know who graduated a few years out are in good shape), but I'm too scared to ask the C/O '10'ers or rising 3L's where they are at because of all of the ITE issues in Florida.


Mistergoft (2L) has expressed that ITE it's possible to get good jobs from UF, but the hiring is way down.

Another anecdote, but yet another family member (FL resident) graduated above median when the legal economy was good, but got a crappy job. She had to go back to get her LLM (in tax, from UF) so she could get a job that would let her help pay off her debt. Now she's still heavily indebted, and recommended not taking any debt to go to law school, even for the T17 where I'm going.


I meant that I'm curious at what they are specifically doing but scared to ask because I'm afraid that my friends got owned by ITE and it could be a bad question to ask people if they are unemployed and unhappy and I don't want to go off scratching at people's open wounds when I only keep in touch with them in passing for the most part.

ETA: The others aren't in Tampa/St. Pete.

mst
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby mst » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:54 pm

OP: You should just blanket the NY schools if your LSAT is high enough, and you may get a full ride scholarship to Brooklyn or Cardozo. If you HAVE to stay in Florida and your main goal is to go to NY, good luck. UF is your least terrible choice on that front. But it's still a tur-ble choice (for trying to get to New York)...

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GATORTIM
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby GATORTIM » Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:57 pm

miamiman wrote:
GATORTIM wrote:
Why dont you just say Vanderbilt? Your anecdotes and disdain for the legal market in Florida is less of some wordly insight of the legal market than it is just commentary on the current condition of most markets (business, science, engineering, gov't, etc)...they are all taking a hit.


Actually, the legal market in florida, one propped up largely by construction, tourism and real estate, has been disproportionately hit by ITE trends. Tampa/St. Pete was already a decaying, third-tier market prior to ITE; the current recession and decline in legal services nationally has simply hastened that death. Rad Law is -- as you point out -- a vandy troll but his trolling for vandy has absolutely nothing to do with the general precision of his commentary as it concerns Tampa/St Pete


Actually, I hope you don't use the word "actually" as a lead in real world converstion; it really sets off a tone of arrogance and/or condescension in your position and will press the reader/listener to take a counter-position, regardless if they agree with anything you had to say.

miamiman
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby miamiman » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:01 pm

Suit yourself with ad hom, bro. Won't make your misplaced confidence in Tampa any less reckless.

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romothesavior
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:04 pm

GATORTIM wrote:
Actually, I hope you don't use the word "actually" as a lead in real world converstion; it really sets off a tone of arrogance and/or condescension in your position and will press the reader/listener to take a counter-position, regardless if they agree with anything you had to say.


As far as turn offs go, your tar >>>>>>>>>>>>> a sentence that starts with actually.

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Grizz
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby Grizz » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:20 pm

miamiman wrote:Actually, the legal market in florida, one propped up largely by construction, tourism and real estate, has been disproportionately hit by ITE trends. Tampa/St. Pete was already a decaying, third-tier market prior to ITE; the current recession and decline in legal services nationally has simply hastened that death.


I agree with this in general, though I hate to see my home being called a third-tier market haha. I don't know if I would describe Tampa/St. Pete pre-ITE as declining, but it definitely was fairly stagnant. The decline here now ITE is insane. There was already a massive glut of lawyers, and there's just not a lot of business transactions that happen in Tampa/St. Pete, comparatively. Crim was fairly robust (as far as crim goes) due to the amount of crime in the area (lots of of drugs) and the US govt. trying cases in Federal Court in Tampa, but I've seen a move away from expensive legal representation and people sticking with PD. Admiralty has been drying up in general. Firms here didn't take too many SAs to begin with, and now some firms slashed SA positions and some have cut summer programs altogether (again, not a unique situation). Local govt. has almost frozen hiring.

The Tampa/St. Pete market isn't gonna die, but ITE has made the horrific glut of lawyers, even relative to other parts of the country, especially apparent. The glut isn't at NY levels, but the market was never really roaring, and could never absorb all the UF, FSU, and especially Stetson grads who wanted jobs here, even in the good days. I just hope Tampa/St. Pete can claw its way back to the "mediocre yet comfortable stagnation" level.

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Grizz
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby Grizz » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:23 pm

GATORTIM wrote:Why dont you just say Vanderbilt?


Okay, I go to Vanderbilt. So what? If you're implying that this makes me less qualified to see what's going on here or that I don't have a stake in the matter, you're dead wrong.

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Grizz
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby Grizz » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:28 pm

Another anecdote:

Last Stetson grad I talked to (pre-ITE) was the daughter of a successful local judge and had gone to Stetson on a large scholarship. A couple years out she was working at the City Attorney's Office. She expressed regret at not being able to get a job in the State Attorney's Office (our version of District Atty.), traditionally one of the haunts of Stetson grads. The SA office used to hire a sizable amount of fresh grads from UF, FSU, and Stetson looking to cut their teeth. Nowadays, fairly limited openings exist at these offices, if at all. SA office has extremely limited opportunities for advancement, by the way.

bestusernameever
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Re: Which Florida school should I attend?

Postby bestusernameever » Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:31 pm

Dude no florida school has respect, especially in new York




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