Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

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fenway
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Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby fenway » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:11 pm

is it just intuitive (endowment) or are certain schools known to have better programs?

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nattybro
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby nattybro » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:39 am


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tallboone
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby tallboone » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:55 am

That thread is horribly out of date. Many schools in the T-14 (Berkeley, Georgetown off the top of my head), UCLA and some other schools have made significant changes to their LRAP programs to coincide with Federal IBR/Loan Forgiveness. You really need to do your own research to properly figure this out. That being said, the best LRAP is Yale because it is strictly tied to income (you don't need to be in any form of legal employment). Other than that, the programs are pretty complicated, depending on what you do with your career.

NYU has traditionally been known for having a spectacular LRAP (to my knowledge, they haven't changed it to dovetail with the Fed program), and Michigan's Debt Management is noteworthy because they don't require you to be in public interest to take advantage of their program.

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ozarkhack
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby ozarkhack » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:04 am

^what s/he said. Particularly: "Other than that, the programs are pretty complicated, depending on what you do with your career."

I assume OP means LRAP programs for Top 20 schools, but just in case ...

Hastings' PICAP (LinkRemoved) seems pretty damn amazing to me. I've trolled quite a bit about it elsewhere on TLS, and I'm not even attending (though am on WL).

Bottom line, assuming you work in PI/govt:

--Earn less than $50K = 90%-100% coverage
--between $50k-$70k = at least least 70% of your IBR-adjusted bill is covered, with increasing coverage every subsequent year. If you earn within that range after 5-7 years, you get 100% coverage. (That's 3-5 years AHEAD of the 10-year forgiveness offered through IBR's Public Service Program.)
--More than $70k = you're on your own (w/IBR by itself, you're still doing OK).
--Drawback: If you don't PI/govt for 10 years, you'll be stuck with ballooned loan balance, b/c IBR doesn't make a dent in principal. This would be bad.
--Advantage: If you do PI/govt for 10 years and qualify for PICAP, you'll likely be paying about $200/month, max, with declining amounts every year. This would be great.

Boalt does something similar, I believe. And UCLA. Both are out of my league, so I looked at them only briefly to compare with Hastings & Davis, the latter of which unfortunately appears to offer the least generous LRAP of all the UCs (despite what admin says; I'm hoping to work 'em over before I graduate).

EDIT: details, details.
Last edited by ozarkhack on Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tallboone
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby tallboone » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:30 am

Also, this is an excellent resource for non-law school LRAP programs:

http://www.abanet.org/legalservices/sclaid/lrap/home.html

But yeah, the LRAPs at top schools (other than HYS) are all rapidly becoming similar because it is a lot cheaper for the schools to pay some/all of your Federal IBR and expect loan forgiveness. I just really worry about the federal funding for this program. I have been told that the funding is non-discretionary and is is "guaranteed," but Social Security is supposed to be guaranteed too and I don't expect to be collecting at current benefit levels by the time I'm ready to retire. A lot can happen in the span of 13 years when I'll be hoping to get my debt cleared.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:52 am

Top Law Schools Guide to LRAP:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/tls-guide-to-lrap.html

It only covers a handful of the Top 10 right now but more are being updated every week.

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chris0805
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby chris0805 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:11 pm

I wanted to say that (no actual guarantee here) CLS was pretty adamant that, regardless of potential IBR dovetailing OPTIONS, they have no plans whatsoever to scrap the traditional LRAP. Thus, when/if dovetailing options get created, students will have a choice. I think this is a HUGE advantage. I know that there's a lot of love for the IBR dovetailing on the boards sometimes, but (as a recent grad going into public interest employment this fall) I have some concerns about these programs.

Personally, I'm less worried about the funding portion and more worried that I might want to move (maybe six or seven years from now) and then maybe I find a place I'd like to work that's a private civil rights law firm or some other place that CLS's traditional LRAP covers but isn't covered with the federal forgiveness. If you don't get the forgiveness after ten years, then IBR is a TERRIBLE idea.

Think about it this way. If you make 40K at a non-profit and enter into an IBR dovetailing option that covers all your payments at that salary and you have 130K in debt, you have about 10K in interest every year. IBR says you only have to pay ~4K, and your school pays that. At the end of the year, you now have 136K in debt. The next year, you make 50K and IBR has you pay around 5.5K. Let's say your school pays all of that. Well, your interest is now 10.5K so at the end of the year, you have 141K in debt.

Long story short, there are some SERIOUS benefits to sticking with a traditional LRAP model in terms of the freedom it provides you in years 6-10 of your career. The extra 2-6 thousand YOU pay a year, plus the 6-11K the school pays can be a pretty good deal for the student.

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A'nold
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby A'nold » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:25 pm

I LOVE the IBR and all of these dovetail kinds of LRAP programs, but man isn't it freaky to think that you can do this for 8 years and be completely screwed or do it for 10 and have no debt at all remaining? :shock: It's almost like a modern form of slavery, haha.

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glowhard
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby glowhard » Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:12 pm

This might be a terribly useless post, but I feel like I spent six months of my life looking into LRAP and never felt like I knew anything.

When I finally visited schools and had conversations with LRAP counselors, they were pretty blunt. There are so many small details for each program, some of which change frequently, that it can be very hard to do a side-by-side comparison of LRAPs. Most schools don't put all the details up on their sites.

For example, if you're planning on having kids, you might want to see how maternity/paternity leave is factored into the LRAP. Or, does the LRAP allow you to work part-time after you have children for a few years? If you're going to get married, will the LRAP count your spouse's income against you? Does the LRAP account for typical salary growth? How do clerkships affect the LRAP?

I don't want to deter anyone from looking into LRAPs obviously, and I'm sure there's some way to separate the great LRAPs from the crappy ones, but I think there's a lot of grey area. After all my research, I just decided that LRAP wouldn't be as important of a factor as I thought it would be... because they change over time, and they're complex, and they're not enormously different if you get high enough up in the T14. But the decision is different for everyone... good luck!

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beef wellington
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby beef wellington » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:01 am

OP inspired me, I'd been meaning to do this for awhile:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=119817

Then glowhard majorly harshed my mellow, by being so credited :lol: Ah well...

I agree that it doesn't matter too much within the T14. Everyone else should go to Hastings.

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glowhard
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby glowhard » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:59 pm

Didn't mean to mellow harsh, beefwelly. That's an amazing feat to come up with any sort of rankings. I think it still makes a good point tho: if you're going to rely on LRAP, try like hell to get into a T17 or pick schools that have LRAPs in general.

Also, this might be another issue, but I would LOVE to see applicants and students pressure the schools into making their LRAP terms more accessible and easy to understand. LSAC doing a comparison chart would also be helpful- basically PI kids are left to sort through the fine print on their own, while exact details on starting salaries at firms are easy to come by and compare... alas.

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D Brooks
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby D Brooks » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:07 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:Top Law Schools Guide to LRAP:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/tls-guide-to-lrap.html

It only covers a handful of the Top 10 right now but more are being updated every week.


EGREGIOUS Penn/Boalt trolling by TLS.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Top 20 LRAP programs-anyone?

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:16 pm

D Brooks wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:Top Law Schools Guide to LRAP:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/tls-guide-to-lrap.html

It only covers a handful of the Top 10 right now but more are being updated every week.


EGREGIOUS Penn/Boalt trolling by TLS.


Take it up with USNWR. Michigan's next!




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