Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

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fenway
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Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby fenway » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:22 pm

order and preferably why sans US news

thanks

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DerrickRose
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby DerrickRose » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:28 pm

Any would be good. UVA and Michigan are better schools than GULC. But go with the money, for the most part.

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bostonlawchick
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby bostonlawchick » Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:46 pm

I'm also wondering about Boston... there's no way in hell I'm getting into Harvard, but BC/BU may be selling myself short. Don't know where to aim in between.

fenway
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby fenway » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:34 pm

-agreed, I should have pushed harder for a distinction because they are all great schools

-well for Boston itself, BC and BU are going to be relatively comparable to any school besides Harvard due to the insulated Boston market (whereas NY is much more of an open market in terms of fielding from around the country). I'd still assume that t14 top 10%>bc/bu top 10% in a head on, but it seems like BC and BU are pretty on par with t14 in New England.

The difference comes with the potential for moving out of New England, where I guess in a way BC/BU could be "selling you short." The three topic schools would obviously do nothing of the sort, but my question is again which out of the three has the strongest Boston presence (i.e. perhaps mich>gtown nationally but gtwon>mich in boston or whatever other combo(s) along those lines).

bump(?)

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kdw94780
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby kdw94780 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:48 pm

Good luck finding people on this forum with answers to your question. If I were you, I'd look at education history of attorneys who work for the Big Law firms in Boston. If you see there's a trend of more Gtown than Mich or more Mich than UVA, then you might find your answer. In Law School Confidential, there's an interview with a hiring partner from Ropes & Gray. This interview seems to suggest that R&G is only comfortable hiring students from at least the Top 40, so I would imagine either of these schools could potentially get you an interview. Go for the school that has the best combination of money and comfort for you if you can't find a clear cut answer.

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bostonlawchick
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby bostonlawchick » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:52 pm

Yeah, thats the feeling I've been getting too- that for Boston, BC/BU would be fine. Part of me just feels like because I've lived in New England my whole life and went to UG here, I want a new perspective for a while before coming back to settle down. I'm praying for the LSAT to get into NYU, but also looking at Mich, Cornell, Gtown, and UVA. I'd be happy as a clam to be at BC with $$$ though.

fenway
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby fenway » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:03 pm

bostonlawchick wrote:Yeah, thats the feeling I've been getting too- that for Boston, BC/BU would be fine. Part of me just feels like because I've lived in New England my whole life and went to UG here, I want a new perspective for a while before coming back to settle down. I'm praying for the LSAT to get into NYU, but also looking at Mich, Cornell, Gtown, and UVA. I'd be happy as a clam to be at BC with $$$ though.



count me in ha

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wadeny
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby wadeny » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:36 pm

OP, if it were me, I would go with the cheapest option of the three. While UVA and Mich are generally seen as stronger schools than GULC, all three can't exactly claim Boston or NY as a home market. But really, you should just follow kdw94780's advice and research this yourself to get a more accurate answer.

The same really goes for BU/BC as well. Although both schools have the immediate advantage of being close to Boston (if that's where you see yourself working), neither is worth close to full tuition IMO, especially considering the economy. FWIW, one of my friends from BC forwarded this (http://abovethelaw.com/2009/11/boston-college-law-school-has-a-plan-for-its-jobless-1ls-and-2ls/) to me a couple months ago. Obviously, the job market is tough out there for pretty much everyone and I'm sure many BU/BC students are doing well, but this article raised some questions for me about BC's career services at the very least.

fenway
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby fenway » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:24 am

wadeny wrote:OP, if it were me, I would go with the cheapest option of the three. While UVA and Mich are generally seen as stronger schools than GULC, all three can't exactly claim Boston or NY as a home market. But really, you should just follow kdw94780's advice and research this yourself to get a more accurate answer.

The same really goes for BU/BC as well. Although both schools have the immediate advantage of being close to Boston (if that's where you see yourself working), neither is worth close to full tuition IMO, especially considering the economy. FWIW, one of my friends from BC forwarded this (http://abovethelaw.com/2009/11/boston-college-law-school-has-a-plan-for-its-jobless-1ls-and-2ls/) to me a couple months ago. Obviously, the job market is tough out there for pretty much everyone and I'm sure many BU/BC students are doing well, but this article raised some questions for me about BC's career services at the very least.



interesting article..I think such questions could be raised for any school at this point in the sense that no one (besides maybe Yale) is performing at standard placement levels. The brunt of the recession obviously trickles down the tiers, but I wonder what the "ranking" threshold is for schools where offering summer classes (which should be discounted) would not be prudent given the climate. I highly doubt this idea by BC is some kind of phenomena for a school in its range, especially considering BC trails only Vandy, UCLA, and USC historically in Big Law placement outside of the t-14. I'm not a BC troll or whatever the f*ck that is, but it doesn't seem right that BC's career office just all of the sudden took a dive off the deep end relative to its peers. Also, if neither BC/BU are worth full tuition for practice in Boston, you are essentially limiting New England area practice schools to top14 minus Northwestern, Cornell, and arguably Georgetown. I'm not sure if the recession is at a point yet where the odds are stacked against a BC/BU grad enough that it does not still make sense to matriculate--perhaps current times require a more diligent plan going in--but those schools are still the pillars for the general New England market. That being said, I think attending anything short of a strong regional school at this time (aka BC, Wash U, GW, Emory) is a pretty tough decision to make

keg411
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby keg411 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:11 pm

If you're not 100% on Boston as you mention New York in the original post, I think M or V would be fine (and of the T13's, you should probably throw Penn and Cornell applications too since they are northeast schools). I also agree that you should do a little detective work into Boston firms and the schools to see how placement is since that's your #1 market (obviously besides BU/BC; which you should also apply to for $$$ considerations).

In your case (as long as you have MVP-type numbers, which I'm guessing you do) and are flexible enough to have NYC as your #2, I see no issue with you leaving New England for the 3 years of school. You will have to consider the $$$-factor, but considering that you are doing next cycle, I don't think this is something to worry or think about now.

ETA: Pretty much all of the T13 is strong in NYC. Even in the recession NY is a massive legal market; much bigger than even Chicago/DC/LA/SF, etc.

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D-ROCCA
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby D-ROCCA » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:24 pm

I know NY is traditionally Michigan's biggest market, no clue about how Michigan grads place in Boston though. I'd say Michigan/UVA, unless Gtown gives you a ton of money.

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Barolo
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby Barolo » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:43 pm

Rankings matter a lot more to us than they do to hiring partners. Michigan, of this bunch, has the most historical prestige -- back in the early 70's, the big three were Yale, Harvard, and Michigan. Despite the fact that it is not as highly ranked as it once was, I do believe that the Michigan Law name swings a pretty big bat anywhere. That said, if UVA made a more compelling offer or you found a strong preference upon visiting both, it would be a fine choice. All good schools, Georgetown less so. Go where you think you'd have the best chance of succeeding because a strong performance at any of these schools would take you far.

But, all things being equal, my money is on Michigan.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:04 pm

bostonlawchick wrote:Yeah, thats the feeling I've been getting too- that for Boston, BC/BU would be fine. Part of me just feels like because I've lived in New England my whole life and went to UG here, I want a new perspective for a while before coming back to settle down. I'm praying for the LSAT to get into NYU, but also looking at Mich, Cornell, Gtown, and UVA. I'd be happy as a clam to be at BC with $$$ though.


Why do people post these sorts of threads before they have an LSAT? With a 3.3 GPA, you're going to have a hard time cracking the T14 unless you're a URM. You'd need about a 177 to have any shot at NYU (even then, no one on LSN was accepted to NYU with that GPA), a 173 to have any real chance at Michigan (again, even then, only 3 people on LSN got in to Michigan with a GPA at or below a 3.3, and they all had interesting backstories); Cornell only has 5 non-URMs on LSN accepted at or below 3.3, and they are the exception, many more were waitlisted or rejected at those numbers; UVA will also be very unlikely with a 3.3, at any LSAT (though EDing might help); Georgetown you have a decent shot at, if you can get a 172+ on the LSAT. So I'd say, if you can get into the 99th percentile at the LSAT, Georgetown is your way into the T14.

As for BC/BU, from what I can tell, BC is less splitter friendly. You'd need about a 170 for BC and a 168 for BU to be fairly sure things.

Edit: Don't mean to come off as a dick. Just trying to be a realist.

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bostonlawchick
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby bostonlawchick » Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:48 pm

DanInALionsDen wrote:
bostonlawchick wrote:Yeah, thats the feeling I've been getting too- that for Boston, BC/BU would be fine. Part of me just feels like because I've lived in New England my whole life and went to UG here, I want a new perspective for a while before coming back to settle down. I'm praying for the LSAT to get into NYU, but also looking at Mich, Cornell, Gtown, and UVA. I'd be happy as a clam to be at BC with $$$ though.


Why do people post these sorts of threads before they have an LSAT? With a 3.3 GPA, you're going to have a hard time cracking the T14 unless you're a URM. You'd need about a 177 to have any shot at NYU (even then, no one on LSN was accepted to NYU with that GPA), a 173 to have any real chance at Michigan (again, even then, only 3 people on LSN got in to Michigan with a GPA at or below a 3.3, and they all had interesting backstories); Cornell only has 5 non-URMs on LSN accepted at or below 3.3, and they are the exception, many more were waitlisted or rejected at those numbers; UVA will also be very unlikely with a 3.3, at any LSAT (though EDing might help); Georgetown you have a decent shot at, if you can get a 172+ on the LSAT. So I'd say, if you can get into the 99th percentile at the LSAT, Georgetown is your way into the T14.

As for BC/BU, from what I can tell, BC is less splitter friendly. You'd need about a 170 for BC and a 168 for BU to be fairly sure things.

Edit: Don't mean to come off as a dick. Just trying to be a realist.


I'm not the OP, so I didn't start this threat before I had my LSAT score. I've been holding off on starting my own for exactly that reason. My GPA is a 3.3 right now, but after summer courses are done it should move up to a 3.4. I've been PTing in the mid 170s (which I know is no guarantee of anything...). I just posted in this thread wondering, like the OP, if anyone had any insight into the Boston market, as its where I'd like to end up.

DanInALionsDen
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:25 pm

bostonlawchick wrote:
DanInALionsDen wrote:
bostonlawchick wrote:Yeah, thats the feeling I've been getting too- that for Boston, BC/BU would be fine. Part of me just feels like because I've lived in New England my whole life and went to UG here, I want a new perspective for a while before coming back to settle down. I'm praying for the LSAT to get into NYU, but also looking at Mich, Cornell, Gtown, and UVA. I'd be happy as a clam to be at BC with $$$ though.


Why do people post these sorts of threads before they have an LSAT? With a 3.3 GPA, you're going to have a hard time cracking the T14 unless you're a URM. You'd need about a 177 to have any shot at NYU (even then, no one on LSN was accepted to NYU with that GPA), a 173 to have any real chance at Michigan (again, even then, only 3 people on LSN got in to Michigan with a GPA at or below a 3.3, and they all had interesting backstories); Cornell only has 5 non-URMs on LSN accepted at or below 3.3, and they are the exception, many more were waitlisted or rejected at those numbers; UVA will also be very unlikely with a 3.3, at any LSAT (though EDing might help); Georgetown you have a decent shot at, if you can get a 172+ on the LSAT. So I'd say, if you can get into the 99th percentile at the LSAT, Georgetown is your way into the T14.

As for BC/BU, from what I can tell, BC is less splitter friendly. You'd need about a 170 for BC and a 168 for BU to be fairly sure things.

Edit: Don't mean to come off as a dick. Just trying to be a realist.


I'm not the OP, so I didn't start this threat before I had my LSAT score. I've been holding off on starting my own for exactly that reason. My GPA is a 3.3 right now, but after summer courses are done it should move up to a 3.4. I've been PTing in the mid 170s (which I know is no guarantee of anything...). I just posted in this thread wondering, like the OP, if anyone had any insight into the Boston market, as its where I'd like to end up.


My mistake. I don't have much insight into the Boston market other than to say that if a top school seems underrepresented there, it is more likely due to self selection than the insularity of the firms. Good luck on the LSAT.

fenway
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby fenway » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:08 pm

I guess the "definitive" answer I was looking for distinguishing among the three isn't there-the Boston market certainly is enigmatic in its insulation. It almost seems from looking at firms that BC/BU (specifically BC as it is more local) would be a better bet outside of HYC for a Boston Big Law job. Sounds weird as hell but looking at firm sites it appears to be so. I guess you have the issue of self-selection that becomes impossible to accurately account for though. I'll have to enter the local grapevine and see what the consensus is. thanks for the comments anyways

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Blindmelon
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:55 pm

fenway wrote:I guess the "definitive" answer I was looking for distinguishing among the three isn't there-the Boston market certainly is enigmatic in its insulation. It almost seems from looking at firms that BC/BU (specifically BC as it is more local) would be a better bet outside of HYC for a Boston Big Law job. Sounds weird as hell but looking at firm sites it appears to be so. I guess you have the issue of self-selection that becomes impossible to accurately account for though. I'll have to enter the local grapevine and see what the consensus is. thanks for the comments anyways


For PI work, etc, its unbelievably insular. For firms, I would think less so (and I'm a BU student). When things were good, BU/BC rocked Boston biglaw, but now it seems like Boston firms aren't really doing that much.

Out of the 3 schools you've mentioned, anecdotally, I've seen a lot of UVA, no Georgetown, and rarely UMich. I had an informational meeting with a small law firm and 2 of the 10 guys were from UVA - the rest BU/BC and Northeastern.

fenway
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Re: Gtown/UVA/Michigan for Boston/NY

Postby fenway » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
fenway wrote:I guess the "definitive" answer I was looking for distinguishing among the three isn't there-the Boston market certainly is enigmatic in its insulation. It almost seems from looking at firms that BC/BU (specifically BC as it is more local) would be a better bet outside of HYC for a Boston Big Law job. Sounds weird as hell but looking at firm sites it appears to be so. I guess you have the issue of self-selection that becomes impossible to accurately account for though. I'll have to enter the local grapevine and see what the consensus is. thanks for the comments anyways


For PI work, etc, its unbelievably insular. For firms, I would think less so (and I'm a BU student). When things were good, BU/BC rocked Boston biglaw, but now it seems like Boston firms aren't really doing that much.

Out of the 3 schools you've mentioned, anecdotally, I've seen a lot of UVA, no Georgetown, and rarely UMich. I had an informational meeting with a small law firm and 2 of the 10 guys were from UVA - the rest BU/BC and Northeastern.


thanks for the post and best of luck with the firm




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