Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

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scott88
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Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

Postby scott88 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:15 am

Okay, just starting to get into the law school process seriously, and need some help here...

What is UVA's standard for in-state students. How does this potentially vary from numbers I might see on this forum that are posted by out-of-state students. Is there an appreciable difference? UVA really pisses me off in that they are a state school yet charge a fortune for state residents to attend. There's basically no break in price!

Same thing with William & Mary to an extent. Is there more of a "break" for in-state residents? How is W&M viewed in comparison to UVA, or even other schools of comparable reputation/ranking?

If I'd be happy practicing in Virginia, how do schools like George Mason and Richmond stack up to a UVA or W&M? Would it make sense to take a large scholarship from one of those and pass up a more highly ranked school?

Lastly, considering I'm open to practicing just about anywhere on the East Coast, be it Atlanta, Richmond, DC, Philly, NYC, Boston, etc., is there any further advice you can give me? Would going to NYU over UVA make sense? Would going to a good school in NYC protect me more against the potential of a continued recession and lack of law jobs (given the huge number of firms in NYC)? I presume I could always come back to somewhere like Richmond or DC with a degree from a top NYC school, but maybe not vice versa?

Any help or advice you can give would be appreciated. If there's something else relevant that I should know, don't restrict your answer just to questions addressed in this thread. Many thanks!

09042014
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Re: Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:17 am

Easier, but you are still going to need a GPA over 3.85 and a decent LSAT, or a 170 with an okay GPA.

What is your GPA, and what is your LSAT (if you have one).

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holydonkey
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Re: Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

Postby holydonkey » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:38 am

Desert Fox wrote:Easier, but you are still going to need a GPA over 3.85 and a decent LSAT, or a 170 with an okay GPA.

What is your GPA, and what is your LSAT (if you have one).
This is true. Other than a slightly easier admissions process, it seems like VA residents may be more likely to receive aid with lower numbers. UVA wants to only take VA residents with high numbers. There are few VA residents with the numbers needed to get into UVA. To convince VA residents with the needed numbers to attend they will throw cash at them (if they don't ED). I hear transfer admissions is easier if you're a VA resident as well.

To answer your other questions: There's not much of a break for in-state students at William & Mary. No shortage of VA residents with the numbers needed to get in W&M. No offense to W&M, they're just not nearly as selective. Also, they have a higher standard to prove residency. Tuition is much lower for in-state residents, but they give more awards to out-of-state residents. William & Mary is no where near UVA in reputation. It is considered about equal to other schools with a similar ranking (amazing!). I am happily taking Michigan over W&M for Virginia/DC.

Going to NYU over UVA would make sense in your case.

In another post you mention you have a 3.5, if this is the case, you will need at minimum a 170 for UVA. That may be enough if you ED. However, if you want a scholarship of any kind, you will need 173-174+.

Should also mention you'll need at least a 172-173 for NYU.

scott88
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Re: Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

Postby scott88 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:47 am

Thanks for the quick replies. I hear a lot of fluff about how good William & Mary is (and hell, even how good University of Richmond is) around here. I never know how much to believe and how much to take with a grain of salt. I suppose it makes sense everyone wants to speak highly of their degree, although I will say that it seems like most of these folks find good jobs. My biggest hope is that the sector bounces back enough in time for finding a job as a 2014 graduate (I assume this means by mid-2012), without sweating bullets worrying about my debt load.

I have been practice testing with an LSAT over 170, but I realize that I can't count on anything until I get an official score. Not taking it until October (hopefully this won't be too late to hurt my chances if I apply ED to NYU).

I have 3.5 undergrad, although I graduated in only 3 years, if they give a shit about that at all. VERY upward trending grades though. Had 3 bouts of kidney stones my 2nd semester, and had a really shitty GPA as a result. However, I took 7 classes per semester over my second two years in school. GPAs were between 3.6 and 3.93 over that time period.

Not sure how much any of that really matters at the end of the day, but I guess it's something to mention when I apply. Realistically, what kind of LSAT would be needed to have a good shot at ED at NYU (or somewhere else in T14 that may make more sense...)?

09042014
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Re: Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:53 am

scott88 wrote:Thanks for the quick replies. I hear a lot of fluff about how good William & Mary is (and hell, even how good University of Richmond is) around here. I never know how much to believe and how much to take with a grain of salt. I suppose it makes sense everyone wants to speak highly of their degree, although I will say that it seems like most of these folks find good jobs. My biggest hope is that the sector bounces back enough in time for finding a job as a 2014 graduate (I assume this means by mid-2012), without sweating bullets worrying about my debt load.

I have been practice testing with an LSAT over 170, but I realize that I can't count on anything until I get an official score. Not taking it until October (hopefully this won't be too late to hurt my chances if I apply ED to NYU).

I have 3.5 undergrad, although I graduated in only 3 years, if they give a shit about that at all. VERY upward trending grades though. Had 3 bouts of kidney stones my 2nd semester, and had a really shitty GPA as a result. However, I took 7 classes per semester over my second two years in school. GPAs were between 3.6 and 3.93 over that time period.

Not sure how much any of that really matters at the end of the day, but I guess it's something to mention when I apply. Realistically, what kind of LSAT would be needed to have a good shot at ED at NYU (or somewhere else in T14 that may make more sense...)?


172 would be the bare min, for NYU, but 173 is the realistic min. I'm not sure I'd ED anywhere if I were you. You might get money from UVA.

With 170 you are likely to get into UVa.

scott88
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Re: Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

Postby scott88 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:59 am

Desert Fox wrote:
scott88 wrote:Thanks for the quick replies. I hear a lot of fluff about how good William & Mary is (and hell, even how good University of Richmond is) around here. I never know how much to believe and how much to take with a grain of salt. I suppose it makes sense everyone wants to speak highly of their degree, although I will say that it seems like most of these folks find good jobs. My biggest hope is that the sector bounces back enough in time for finding a job as a 2014 graduate (I assume this means by mid-2012), without sweating bullets worrying about my debt load.

I have been practice testing with an LSAT over 170, but I realize that I can't count on anything until I get an official score. Not taking it until October (hopefully this won't be too late to hurt my chances if I apply ED to NYU).

I have 3.5 undergrad, although I graduated in only 3 years, if they give a shit about that at all. VERY upward trending grades though. Had 3 bouts of kidney stones my 2nd semester, and had a really shitty GPA as a result. However, I took 7 classes per semester over my second two years in school. GPAs were between 3.6 and 3.93 over that time period.

Not sure how much any of that really matters at the end of the day, but I guess it's something to mention when I apply. Realistically, what kind of LSAT would be needed to have a good shot at ED at NYU (or somewhere else in T14 that may make more sense...)?


172 would be the bare min, for NYU, but 173 is the realistic min. I'm not sure I'd ED anywhere if I were you. You might get money from UVA.

With 170 you are likely to get into UVa.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Hence, why I'd only ED to somewhere near the very top. As someone who will be paying every penny of expenses incurred, money makes a big difference, but I don't want to sell myself short in the long run. It's just very hard to gauge. I was reading through the thread about UVA acceptances over this past year and looking on LSN, and sometimes there seems to be no rhyme or reason for who they accept. Plenty of really impressive numbers that were turned down. I've been thinking a lot about trying to go to W&M on the cheap, but I was fairly certain people here would advice against that.

Any places that might be good targets to get some significant money? Would Cornell be shooting too high? Also, I'd honestly LOVE to live in Austin and go to school at UT, but I'm not sure how transportable that degree is. I know it's gold in Texas, but not sure about the east coast. Also, I don't know if they'd even give me any scholarships.

09042014
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Re: Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:03 pm

scott88 wrote:
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Hence, why I'd only ED to somewhere near the very top. As someone who will be paying every penny of expenses incurred, money makes a big difference, but I don't want to sell myself short in the long run. It's just very hard to gauge. I was reading through the thread about UVA acceptances over this past year and looking on LSN, and sometimes there seems to be no rhyme or reason for who they accept. Plenty of really impressive numbers that were turned down. I've been thinking a lot about trying to go to W&M on the cheap, but I was fairly certain people here would advice against that.

Any places that might be good targets to get some significant money? Would Cornell be shooting too high? Also, I'd honestly LOVE to live in Austin and go to school at UT, but I'm not sure how transportable that degree is. I know it's gold in Texas, but not sure about the east coast. Also, I don't know if they'd even give me any scholarships.


Apply broadly and see who gives you money.

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holydonkey
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Re: Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

Postby holydonkey » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:04 pm

I'd ED to Columbia if you break 174. If you get 171-173, I wouldn't ED and would apply to Chicago through Georgetown. If you get a 170, I would ED to UVA. If you get a 169, I would ED to Michigan, Duke, or Northwestern. If you get a 168, Cornell is your friend.

scott88
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Re: Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

Postby scott88 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:08 pm

holydonkey wrote:I'd ED to Columbia if you break 174. If you get 171-173, I wouldn't ED and would apply to Chicago through Georgetown. If you get a 170, I would ED to UVA. If you get a 169, I would ED to Michigan, Duke, or Northwestern. If you get a 168, Cornell is your friend.


Haha, thanks for the breakout. Being that specific is very helpful. Not looking forward to dealing with all the apps, but it's definitely just the nature of the beast!

09042014
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Re: Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:44 pm

holydonkey wrote:I'd ED to Columbia if you break 174. If you get 171-173, I wouldn't ED and would apply to Chicago through Georgetown. If you get a 170, I would ED to UVA. If you get a 169, I would ED to Michigan, Duke, or Northwestern. If you get a 168, Cornell is your friend.


Northwestern's LSAT median is 170. I doubt 169 will cut it.

You don't have to ED somewhere. In fact with a balanced numbers like 3.5/17X it doesn't make sense to.

mhernton
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Re: Need some advice, while considering I'm a Virginia resident.

Postby mhernton » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:47 pm

Its awesome that you are researching early in the process. William & Mary is the best deal you are going to get for Law School as an in state resident anywhere. Right now they are asking about 24K a year sticker. Most Law Schools are 15K more and the top 5 are generally double the price. W&M is also a top30 school. UVA is a top10 school and you will pay top ten prices for it. The gist of all of this is Law School is expensive, and therefore a risk regardless of where you want to practice. George Mason is good regional school, but its grads will go head up against every school in the DC area plus W&M, W&L, and UVA. NYU has reach everywhere, but you are paying top 5 prices and living in NYC. Regardless of all of this, your question is somewhat suspect because we don't know your grades, softs or what you think your LSAT score will be. Are you a URM, do you have an interesting story like, you solved the cold fusion problem, or fixed Global Warming, or plugged the oil leaking in Gulf of Mexico. We aren't really sure about where you think you want to practice. For instance if you are already a CFA, CPA, MBA then it might be better you to go to Gtown's part time program so you can keep working part time in your field, or do you want to be a JAG where you could go to Liberty U Law, and join the military. There are a lot of options if the field is wide open, and a lot less if you don't have the appropriate record or interests. TLSers are great about giving advice, just remember Advice from this board is always free, and you get what you pay for....




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