What is wrong with Rankings?

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makaf2000
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What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby makaf2000 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:16 pm

No, seriously, what is wrong with rankings? For example, University of Iowa bar passage rate is more then 3% lower than Iowa average, while Drake Univ is 3% higher than the average. The difference is 6%! Yet, UofIowa is tier 1 and Drake is Tier 3. I am not associated with any of those schools whatsoever btw, I go to a school in a different state. Is it because Iof Iowa gets students with better scores, those whose parents are already attorneys and make their kids prepare 2 years in advance? Honestly, I don't see much difference. It is almost as arbitrary and subjective as law school exam essay grading in many schools - depending on your typing speed, mood of the professor and internal politics.

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StrictlyLiable
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Re: What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby StrictlyLiable » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:26 pm

Im sure a lot of the responses that you will get will center around the schools employment placement, prestige, starting salary ect.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:30 pm

StrictlyLiable wrote:Im sure a lot of the responses that you will get will center around the schools employment placement, prestige, starting salary etc.


Yup.

sdv
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Re: What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby sdv » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:39 pm

in terms of your specific example, the better Iowa grads probably have a tendency to leave Iowa for a superior market, meaning those who actually take the Iowa bar are probably not necessarily a representative sample of the overall bar passage rate of the school.

TheOpossum
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Re: What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby TheOpossum » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:39 pm

Regardless, he makes a good point. Maybe not the most killer argument against rankings, but that is a bullshit stat (if true).

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NU_Jet55
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Re: What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby NU_Jet55 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:58 pm

StrictlyLiable wrote:Im sure a lot of the responses that you will get will center around the schools employment placement, prestige, starting salary ect.


Exactly. OP, use the search function.

makaf2000 wrote:For example, University of Iowa bar passage rate is more then 3% lower than Iowa average, while Drake Univ is 3% higher than the average. The difference is 6%!


1. This is the result of several factors. For instance, the vast majority of Iowa grads(66%)* don't even practice in Iowa and thus don't take the bar there. Also, there are a good number of Drake grads (just like every other T3 and T4) that for one reason or another(read:they can't find a job and go live in their parents' basement)that don't even take the bar and never practice law. So, you're left with the worst Iowa Grads vs. the best Drake grads, and frankly I'm surprised the difference is only 6%.

2. There is not a huge difference between students at Iowa and Drake. In general, the students at Iowa either (a)took their undergraduate classes more seriously, or (b)studied a little harder for the LSAT. Attending a more highly ranked law school does not necessarily mean you're or a better/smarter student or even help you pass the bar. Higher ranked law schools simply help you find and retain employment. You're mostly on your own in regards to studying for and passing the bar. In most midwestern states, that really isn't very hard (see:87% in Iowa).

3. This is the best argument you can come up with against the rankings? There are WAY better arguments for this against the rankings all over TLS. Look around a bit.

*http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/cso_stats_2008.pdf
Last edited by NU_Jet55 on Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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traehekat
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Re: What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby traehekat » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:11 pm

Blatant Drake trolling.

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kittenmittons
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Re: What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby kittenmittons » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:12 pm

Ridiculous people care about anything in Iowa trolling

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nealric
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Re: What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby nealric » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:48 pm

As someone studying for the bar, I can tell you that bar passage rates are a meaningless criteria for evaluating a school- unless the rates are absurdly low.

Some law schools structure their curriculum as a 3-year bar course. Schools that do that will have a higher pass rate than schools that allow more academic freedom (all other things equal).

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romothesavior
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Re: What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:50 pm

Bar passage rates are a terrible metric to measure a school by, for all the reasons aforementioned.

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Regionality
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Re: What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby Regionality » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:47 pm

Maybe Drake fails all their bad students out so they don't even get to take the bar...

This question shows either a lazy or misinformed approach to statistics

I checked and it looks like Drake only loses about 5-7 ppl to academic attrition...

But to continue the idea, maybe there are plenty of drake grads who don't get offered a legal job ever, they know it, so they don't even sit the bar.

cubswin
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Re: What is wrong with Rankings?

Postby cubswin » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:01 pm

makaf2000 wrote:No, seriously, what is wrong with rankings? For example, University of Iowa bar passage rate is more then 3% lower than Iowa average, while Drake Univ is 3% higher than the average. The difference is 6%! Yet, UofIowa is tier 1 and Drake is Tier 3. I am not associated with any of those schools whatsoever btw, I go to a school in a different state. Is it because Iof Iowa gets students with better scores, those whose parents are already attorneys and make their kids prepare 2 years in advance? Honestly, I don't see much difference. It is almost as arbitrary and subjective as law school exam essay grading in many schools - depending on your typing speed, mood of the professor and internal politics.


Wow, you could make like five different LSAT flaw questions out of this.




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